DC - Savvas Savopoulos, family & Veralicia Figueroa murdered; Daron Wint Arrested #16

[FelicityLemon]

<modsnip>

Absolutely could be coincidence. Maybe, maybe not. We can't know until something proves either way.

My brother used to use my Dad's address to receive mail. Brother travels a lot, lived in many states and overseas. He never lived there in the 30 years my Dad had that address. If you search my brother in the net, my Dad's address shows everywhere and it would be assumed he lived there for 30 years himself.

ANNOYING FACT: A net search will also show me with my Dad's age (never knew how that happened) and shows Dad living at MY address. He never did. For 30 years, we lived 6 blocks apart. We never lived at each other's home in that time. One fingerprint check (contract work for school district) showed someone else's SSN come up even though I input my own. I never knew whose that was.

 

[katydid23]

Absolutely could be coincidence. Maybe, maybe not. We can't know until something proves either way.

My brother used to use my Dad's address to receive mail. Brother travels a lot, lived in many states and overseas. He never lived there in the 30 years my Dad had that address. If you search my brother in the net, my Dad's address shows everywhere and it would be assumed he lived there for 30 years himself.

ANNOYING FACT: A net search will also show me with my Dad's age (never knew how that happened) and shows Dad living at MY address. He never did. For 30 years, we lived 6 blocks apart. We never lived at each other's home in that time. One fingerprint check (contract work for school district) showed someone else's SSN come up even though I input my own. I never knew whose that was.

My grown kids laugh because we have a family pet that has been elevated to their sibling in some net searches. We even get mail in his name from credit card companies wanting to give him an account. Frankie turned into a human family member and I am not sure why or how. :floorlaugh:

 

[FelicityLemon]

Isn't the house around 10k square feet? I definitely would consider a house that size a mansion. From the media's perspective, how many murders happen in houses bigger than this?

From the media's perspective, the alliteration of Mansion Murders is gold.

 

[BondGirl]

A list? I haven't heard about a DW list... Off to google too! :lookingitup:

Can you post a link? I've never heard this.

 

[FelicityLemon]

<modsnip>

We lived in a nice neighborhood growing up. A family moved in next door with kids our ages. We were excited to have more kids in the neighborhood to play with. We learned quickly to avoid them, they were worse at school away from parents. They were crude, they were trouble, they were really mean, sneaky and violent - both of the girls and their brother, from grade school when they moved in through high school. It took just a few times of being "accidentally" hit too hard or "accidentally" having things stolen to learn they had nothing in common with any of the kids in the neighborhood, or in a large group that encompassed several blocks. (we loved playing snot-in-the-grass as high schoolers, even - yippee! but those jerks were brutal. fyi: there's no snot involved)

We lived next door to each other for several years.

We were not friends.

Kids know who to avoid. Even if they lived in each other's back pockets, JW may not have been friendly in the least with DW

 

[BondGirl]

We lived in a nice neighborhood growing up. A family moved in next door with kids our ages. We were excited to have more kids in the neighborhood to play with. We learned quickly to avoid them, they were worse at school away from parents. They were crude, they were trouble, they were really mean, sneaky and violent - both of the girls and their brother, from grade school when they moved in through high school. It took just a few times of being "accidentally" hit too hard or "accidentally" having things stolen to learn they had nothing in common with any of the kids in the neighborhood, or in a large group that encompassed several blocks. (we loved playing snot-in-the-grass as high schoolers, even - yippee! but those jerks were brutal. fyi: there's no snot involved)

We lived next door to each other for several years.

We were not friends.

Kids know who to avoid. Even if they lived in each other's back pockets, JW may not have been friendly in the least with DW

There are good cops and bad cops. We know nothing about JW's family so we can't make assumptions.

 

[FelicityLemon]

any place you can view old high school yearbooks?

Yes, everything I found you pay for. Classmates is the first to come to mind. I did find a happy thing that is hit and miss: Ancestry.com. I subscribe occasionally when researching for background checks. I discovered that yearbooks are sometimes linked! One name can have a link to a page with their yearbook photo and from there (still within Ancestry) you can page back and forth within the yearbook. I haven't found a way to actually search within them, though so it's tedious.

oh oh oh! Websleuthers local to the area might find yearbooks in the local libraries - our libraries carry them, I forgot!!

 

[kammiemc]

Absolutely could be coincidence. Maybe, maybe not. We can't know until something proves either way.

My brother used to use my Dad's address to receive mail. Brother travels a lot, lived in many states and overseas. He never lived there in the 30 years my Dad had that address. If you search my brother in the net, my Dad's address shows everywhere and it would be assumed he lived there for 30 years himself.

ANNOYING FACT: A net search will also show me with my Dad's age (never knew how that happened) and shows Dad living at MY address. He never did. For 30 years, we lived 6 blocks apart. We never lived at each other's home in that time. One fingerprint check (contract work for school district) showed someone else's SSN come up even though I input my own. I never knew whose that was.

I agree. My credit reports show diff addresses for me. I don't want to go too much into it for fear of breaking TOS rules, but DW's dad DID say that DW lived with him. Dates make sense for the time that DW listed his residence to be his dad's. Could be a crazy coincidence. For me, I can't just assume it to be a crazy coincidence anymore than I can assume it to be proof that the two men were best friends.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[kammiemc]

We lived in a nice neighborhood growing up. A family moved in next door with kids our ages. We were excited to have more kids in the neighborhood to play with. We learned quickly to avoid them, they were worse at school away from parents. They were crude, they were trouble, they were really mean, sneaky and violent - both of the girls and their brother, from grade school when they moved in through high school. It took just a few times of being "accidentally" hit too hard or "accidentally" having things stolen to learn they had nothing in common with any of the kids in the neighborhood, or in a large group that encompassed several blocks. (we loved playing snot-in-the-grass as high schoolers, even - yippee! but those jerks were brutal. fyi: there's no snot involved)

We lived next door to each other for several years.

We were not friends.

Kids know who to avoid. Even if they lived in each other's back pockets, JW may not have been friendly in the least with DW

I am sure that the kids who grew up, or lived anytime next to DW, also would have figured out, with or without parental guidance, to avoid him. I obviously have no idea, but I doubt JW was friends with DW. JW might have known another family member of DW's. I bet that a cop living next door to DW would be aware of him and perhaps his history, and would perhaps share that info with his own visiting family members for their own protection.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[FelicityLemon]

How do we know he hasn't been arrested? If the arrest warrant is kept under seal, we wouldn't know until it's unsealed. I think there are others in custody, either for unrelated crimes, or their warrants are sealed because releasing the information would either put witnesses in danger or impede the investigation. JMO.

If there are others involved and in custody, wouldn't LE want to put the public at ease by announcing they have more killers or all of them in custody? They could do that without naming names.

Or make the announcement they now know DW acted alone and people don't have to worry that there are more animals roaming free that were related to this specific murder.

Anything either way. As far as I know, LE hasn't said anything recently that they're actively searching for others involved for this.

 

[katydid23]

I have cops in my family and I know many cops. All of them have been very strict about who their kids could hang out with, for their own safety. Many live outside their own police districts for that reason alone. You don't want your own kids to be put into a dangerous situation by having some criminals realize their father is a cop. And hanging out with gang members would not be advised. JMO

 

[al66pine]

You raise a very good point. I remember reading that someone said JW wasn't really fired and left because he wasn't getting enough hours. That may well have been what he told SS. He may have asked for something to help him through until he obtained other employment. If JW was fired, he could collect unemployment and also earn money part-time as long as it didn't affect his unemployment. If SS paid him "off the books" that would be even better. JMO

Agreeing w ^ - possible that JW & Mr S both looked at driver job as temp.bridge.

Jumping off this post to another point. Seems like early rpts gave (me anyway) impression JW's Autobahn position was high level. If in fact he was an hourly/wage employee, not a salaried employee, seems like his pay scale was not a lofty one. Anyone recall source of the not-enough-hours claim?
How many FT or FTE employees work at Autobahn?

Thinking of comments about how JW's job change from Autobahn to Mr S's driver was a big come-down, while others said it was a step up. IDK. So any unknowns about terms of employment w Mr S, hard to say.
JM2cts, could be all wrong.

 

[kammiemc]

We lived in a nice neighborhood growing up. A family moved in next door with kids our ages. We were excited to have more kids in the neighborhood to play with. We learned quickly to avoid them, they were worse at school away from parents. They were crude, they were trouble, they were really mean, sneaky and violent - both of the girls and their brother, from grade school when they moved in through high school. It took just a few times of being "accidentally" hit too hard or "accidentally" having things stolen to learn they had nothing in common with any of the kids in the neighborhood, or in a large group that encompassed several blocks. (we loved playing snot-in-the-grass as high schoolers, even - yippee! but those jerks were brutal. fyi: there's no snot involved)

We lived next door to each other for several years.

We were not friends.

Kids know who to avoid. Even if they lived in each other's back pockets, JW may not have been friendly in the least with DW

Can you imagine being asked by your new boss to pick up cash for him, only to find out you were actually being sent to collect and drop off ransom money to one of those bad kids who had next door to you? It is just really freaky in a universal sense if there is not any connection.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[TexMex]

Can you imagine being asked by your new boss to pick up cash for him, only to find out you were actually being sent to collect and drop off ransom money to one of those bad kids who had next door to you? It is just really freaky in a universal sense if there is not any connection.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

IMO interviews with JW, DW and their friends and families have been conducted by LE. IF (and IMO it's a stretch) they were ever neighbors, friends or ever met is known to LE.
IMO there is no connection at all.

 

[Sparky]

:modstop:

You've been asked over and over not to bring the families of DW and JW here, including addresses where they lived, friends and girlfriends.

It is against Websleuths TOS. Please stop.

:tyou:

 

[kammiemc]

IMO interviews with JW, DW and their friends and families have been conducted by LE. IF (and IMO it's a stretch) they were ever neighbors, friends or ever met is known to LE.
IMO there is no connection at all.

<modsnip>

So, assuming your knowledge is correct that DW acted totally alone. Only DW was involved in the planning and execution of this crime. In terms of JW, just another victim who for some reason got flustered and lied about his actions, what happens to him if he is a witness? Does he have to do anything else? Does LE say, looks like all of your stories check out, so feel free to leave the country for a while? Do they ask him to stay put? Do they clear him publicly, even though they are under no obligation to? Do they protect him because they fear some of DW's friends who aren't in jail might want to make sure JW doesn't give any info on the events of that day?

Who takes care of JW after LE basically ruined his foreseeable future?

What happens to him?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[oceanblueeyes]

Occam's Razor supports the prosecutor's statement in the charging documents that Wint acted with others in holding the victims hostage until the money arrived. I've seen nothing in Wint's background that leads me to conclude he had the capability or the intelligence to single-handily plan the kidnapping and extortion of $40,000.

JMO

BBM

I think you are taking the Prosecutor's statement out of context. Iirc, the word used was 'believe' which changes the entire meaning or some other subjective word usage. I am sure at the time they were working under the assumption he did have help. They have had time to rule that in or out by now.

I haven't seen any documents where the Prosecutor makes any affirmative statement confirming Wint absolutely had help. The word usage of 'believe' is nothing more than "I think" (theory-at the time) and isn't factually based.

And what high intelligence would he need to do this crime? I see nothing that shows me he had to be a brilliant individual to pull this off all by himself. Although I don't think he is dumb either.

It doesn't take much brain power to force entry into a home and grab one of the startled/frightened females who were in the home with a 10 year old boy. They would all comply trying to save each other. Tragically, it has happened before several times with only one lone perpetrator involved.

When Savvas arrived home he would do nothing to provoke the man who held his family, and housekeeper hostage. That is why pizza was ordered at 9:30pm when they were trying to keep him calm giving him anything he wanted.

What intelligence would be needed for Wint to direct a very intelligent man, who certainly knew about financial matters.. to do all of his dirty work for him seeing to it the 40K was delivered as DW demanded?

Once he murdered them all, he took his blood money, he set the fire, and walked out. I don't see a very complex plan that would even require a highly intelligent mastermind. DW knew Savvas was wealthy already before going in to his home.

There is absolutely no reason why LE wouldn't announce they have made further arrests if they have done so. They weren't shy about telling everyone in short order they had arrested Wint. They would do the same if there were other arrests. Imo, they haven't arrested anyone other than Wint in connection to this specific crime. I have no doubt the media continues to call LE everyday looking for any updates if they exist. They would want the area citizens to know they are continuing to arrests others involved in this case.

The thing about prior SWs and continued ongoing investigations they are constantly evolving and what LE may have suspected or believed or thought at first is not where the investigation has taken them now. I think they have thoroughly investigated this case for almost 8 weeks, and found no involvement of others other than Wint.

I still say, while I think JW is an arrogant lying braggart blowhard, and was a terrible employee.... he will not be involved in the murder of this family.

IMO

 

[Willow Knight]

One thing I have been wondering is why JW would need to be in protective custody, or self-appointed protection, etc., if he had no awareness of the crime. He wouldn't need to be afraid of DW and Co if he didn't know anything about the crime. (I think?) Especially if DW acted alone and is now behind bars.

RSBM

Basing on the assumption all is true that JW was not involved with the crime, the reason why I added protective custody is because JW would be a witness for the prosecution. The horrific actions committed in this crime would scare the daylights out of a person, and LE could fear JW may become nervous/dicey over testifying. Mr SS had several phone conversations during the hostage period and those conversation are surely being dissected. We have limited knowledge at this time, however as an example Mr SS could have used the word "we" instead of "I" in conversations, or something of that affect to pass on a clue. We just don't know at this time.

DW may very well be in jail, but how many partners in crime does DW know that are not in jail? Eliminating a witness that could testify he delivery 40k to the SS home would not be positive for the prosecution.

Thank you for your thoughts. We keep each other on our toes.

 

[TexMex]

<modsnip>

So, assuming your knowledge is correct that DW acted totally alone. Only DW was involved in the planning and execution of this crime. In terms of JW, just another victim who for some reason got flustered and lied about his actions, what happens to him if he is a witness? Does he have to do anything else? Does LE say, looks like all of your stories check out, so feel free to leave the country for a while? Do they ask him to stay put? Do they clear him publicly, even though they are under no obligation to? Do they protect him because they fear some of DW's friends who aren't in jail might want to make sure JW doesn't give any info on the events of that day?

Who takes care of JW after LE basically ruined his foreseeable future?

What happens to him?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

IMO the next time we hear from JW he will be testifying as a witness for the State (District?)

 

[Peliman]

Occam's Razor

I'm curious how Occam's Razor handles coincidence. Isn't deciding two contemporaneous events are unrelated an assumption? There is a difference between assumptions and facts, so the best hypothesis would have the fewest assumptions. Does the number of facts drawn into the equation have any effect? I'd love to see how others would apply this principle to this crime.

Not sure that this helps but from the FBI...

Most of the time, a perpetrator is identified early in an investigation. Usually, only a limited number of people have both the motive and opportunity to commit a certain offense, thus, evidence tends to point toward a particular suspect. Unfortunately, many people perceive criminal acts as more complex than they really are. English theologian William of Occam recognized this human tendency in medieval times and put forth Occam’s Razor: “The simplest of two or more competing theories is preferable,and explanations for unknown phenomena should first be attempted in terms of what is already known. This essentially means that the least complicated explanation of an event is usually the correct one.Investigators should remember this principle and not venture into far-fetched theories until more likely scenarios are examined and eliminated.

Avoid Tunnel Vision
Although Occam’s Razor encourages one to look closely at the simplest explanation first, investigators must avoid becoming myopic. It is tempting to fixate on a particular theory of a case and ignore or dismiss evidence and information contradictory to it. In fact,the outset of an investigation often is too early to theorize at all. Instead, supervisors should ensure that investigative bases are covered while implementing fundamental concepts of logic and common sense as a guide.

https://leb.fbi.gov/2006-pdfs/leb-january-2006