FL - 17 killed in Stoneman Douglas H.S. shooting, Parkland, 14 Feb 2018 #3 *Arrest*

[human]

No that is not No Child Left Behind. NCLB was designed to do lots of things including mainstreaming low and special ed kids as much as possible. While it was well intentioned, it has resulted in highly disruptive kids being placed back in regular classes. Teachers often end up having to give an inordinate amount of their attention to one student, very much to the detriment of the other students. It is often called “no Child Gets Ahead.”

I do not intend to be verified, but I was a teacher for thirty years. Mainstreaming has been going on for decades, PL 94-142 is the law that I believe is from 1974 which set the basis for education of all children. The rules on identifying which children qualify for special needs programming. Lots and lots of info on special needs laws

Least Restrictive Environment has been the law for decades.

NCLB set the standards for the proficiency levels all students needed to reach with testing, States determined their own levels. Lots more on testing, different groups, accountability, etc. which is far more info that can be looked up,

Special needs law is a whole different law

 

[human]

In our zeal to try to understand the possible etiology of mass murder shootings, we must remember that the true victims of mass murder shootings are the ones on the receiving end of the bullets.

Thus far, I have seen no evidence that the shooter was so neurologically damaged that he was incapable of making a different decision than the one he made when he mercilessly gunned down 17 victims and wounded 16 others. The reported evidence supports the opposite: He methodically planned his massacre and boasted about it up to two years prior. He was capable of tempering his behavior, as is evidenced by his ability to act 'normal' in various settings.

The sympathy/empathy/compassion (or whatever one wishes to call it ) extended to a mass murderer in an attempt to comprehend the possible root cause of their actions should never exceed the compassion & concern for the true victims of the mass murderers - the ones whose lives were heartlessly snuffed out, the ones who will spend years of their young lives undergoing surgeries & rehabilitation for the terrible injuries inflicted upon them, and the ones who are emotionally traumatized because they truly feared they were going to die, or who watched in terror as their friends were massacred.

According to media reports listed here in these threads, NC planned his execution and carried it out with cold cruelty. If he had been able to break the hurricane-proof glass in the window, he would have undoubtedly murdered many more.

Although I, too, would like to understand the possible etiology behind his barbaric actions, I have zero sympathy/empathy/compassion for this murderer. It's important, IMO, to not be manipulated by NC's attorney's claim that her client allegedly feels "remorse". I don't believe it for a single second.

Besides which, when ultimately convicted for his heinous crimes, any mitigating circumstances (such as possible "brain damage or mental illness") will only be relevant at the penalty phase, not when determining his guilt.

I was merely responding to the fact that he has been a victim for a number of reasons. Not that he is not a monster.

Adults actions, such as drinking and using drugs while pregnant , for instance, create people with huge issues, These babies did not choose to use yet they get th life long effects.

For instance, with alcohol, depending on when the mother used, the dhild can have parts of the brain that are totally missing,

I do not know what permanent damage there is with other drugs.

 

[Gooddeeds]

It doesn't so far look as if there are much in the way of assets in the estate. So why even bother with a probate? I am guessing that there perhaps trusts out there with significant funds in them. Perhaps Lynda was the trustee, and the real reason for the appointment of a PR is to act as successor trustee for those trusts. Usually trusts have a successor named, but maybe that person in this case is either deceased or unwilling to accept the role. Its impossible to say as we are on the outside looking in. But I am guessing that there are assets out there that are not necessarily going to pass through probate. If I were the attorney for an injured victim or for the family of a deceased victim, I would be paying close attention and file a claim in this probate ASAP. I would also get my wrongful death suit filed and try to get a prejudgment attachment on any funds that could be in play.

No he just turned 18. Roxy filed the day or a few days before his 18th birthday.
If there are funds not passing through probate will they be on record for Roxy to see if she is granted administrator for what is probate? Just wondering if she will be able to gain that information even though it is separate.

 

[PrairieWind]

No he just turned 18. Roxy filed the day or a few days before his 18th birthday.
If there are funds not passing through probate will they be on record for Roxy to see if she is granted administrator for what is probate? Just wondering if she will be able to gain that information even though it is separate.

They won't be on record most likely. As PR, she might be able to find out the existence of life insurance or trusts, but merely as PR, she wont have any control over them.

As for the bond question earlier, typically a personal representative must post a bond. However often, (always in wills that I draft) the maker of a will will say that the PR does not have to post a bond. Since there is no will here, the PR would be required to do so, unless all the heirs agree otherwise. Since there are only two heirs (presumably) it was easy to get around that.

In my state, a probate would not be required here, there are other procedures when there are very little assets. Many states have similar provisions. Which leads me to believe there is an ulterior motive for Roxy to do this, although those motives are not necessarily nefarious. I could see some reasons to do so that would be for the purpose of protecting Zac as much as possible.

 

[Gooddeeds]

A student left outside his classroom while a gunman roamed the halls of his Parkland high school slammed his teacher as “nothing but a coward” for locking him and more than a dozen fellow classmates out of the room.

In wake of the brutal attack at Marjory Stoneman Douglas High School, math teacher Matt Gard made headlines for protecting his students. But junior Joshua Gallagher, who said he was in class with Gard in the moments leading up to the shooting, claimed his teacher abandoned him amid the emergency situation.


Snipped from:
https://www.google.com/amp/www.nyda...ssroom-calls-teacher-coward-article-1.3852758

 

[human]

A student left outside his classroom while a gunman roamed the halls of his Parkland high school slammed his teacher as “nothing but a coward” for locking him and more than a dozen fellow classmates out of the room.

In wake of the brutal attack at Marjory Stoneman Douglas High School, math teacher Matt Gard made headlines for protecting his students. But junior Joshua Gallagher, who said he was in class with Gard in the moments leading up to the shooting, claimed his teacher abandoned him amid the emergency situation.


Snipped from:
https://www.google.com/amp/www.nyda...ssroom-calls-teacher-coward-article-1.3852758

Well, there you go. The teacher locked the door and did not answer the banging. Why would he? How is he supposed to know who it is?

This is the exact dilemma I wrote about earlier. Kids out of the room for any number of reasons. What to do?

Bullet proof doors and bullet proof glass so a teacher can look out,

But then again, how does the teacher know that a parricular srudent is not actually the shooter?

Nightmare for everyone so that some people can have their guns that rip organs to shreds

 

[Gooddeeds]

New info.

The Parkland Public Schools tells Fox News it has made plans to tear down Building 12, which is where the shooting unfolded. A spokesperson for the school says the district has suggested it will cost $28.5 million to tear down and replace the school. The plan would require state funding and lawmakers' approval.


Snipped from:
https://www.google.com/amp/www.foxn...o-create-vantage-point-to-fire-below.amp.html

 

[PrairieWind]

New info.

The Parkland Public Schools tells Fox News it has made plans to tear down Building 12, which is where the shooting unfolded. A spokesperson for the school says the district has suggested it will cost $28.5 million to tear down and replace the school. The plan would require state funding and lawmakers' approval.


Snipped from:
https://www.google.com/amp/www.foxn...o-create-vantage-point-to-fire-below.amp.html

Oiy! I don't think this is a good idea. I understand students might be uncomfortable going in that building, but that is a LOT of money demolish and rebuild a perfectly good building that could be used for other things, ie security, additional counselors/teachers.

 

[Wyle_E_Coyote]

Oiy! I don't think this is a good idea. I understand students might be uncomfortable going in that building, but that is a LOT of money demolish and rebuild a perfectly good building that could be used for other things, ie security, additional counselors/teachers.

A lot of money, but having experience with PTSD, I don't think repurposing it is a viable option. There are hundreds of students, as well as teachers, parents, and siblings, who are going to be experiencing trauma for a very long time. It's not just being "uncomfortable", trauma can cause panic attacks, general anxiety, physical symptoms such as nausea and shaking, and being back in the "moment" to where they would hear the gunshots and see people covered in blood (been there, experienced it). As a trauma surviver, I don't think I could even step foot back on the campus in those circumstances.

A lot of money, but it certainly will make it easier for everyone to go forward... Reducing the need for meds, therapy, etc.

I wonder how many kids aren't going back.

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[Wyle_E_Coyote]

Follow up on student attendance...

Broward County Public Schools Superintendent Robert Runcie today called the return to school a "major milestone" and said there was a "great turnout," with an about 95 percent attendance rate.
-snip-
Out of almost 3,300 students, only 15 have asked for information on other school options in the county, Runcie said. About four of 215 employees have asked for information on additional employment options, he added.
https://www.google.com/amp/abcnews....n-douglas-high-school-today/story?id=53387148

I'm very surprised, although I'm sure there's students/parents/teachers who are exploring other options on their own. Much higher return rate than I expected.


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[bradalucas]

New info.

The Parkland Public Schools tells Fox News it has made plans to tear down Building 12, which is where the shooting unfolded. A spokesperson for the school says the district has suggested it will cost $28.5 million to tear down and replace the school. The plan would require state funding and lawmakers' approval.


Snipped from:
https://www.google.com/amp/www.foxn...o-create-vantage-point-to-fire-below.amp.html

Should consider making it a police substation for the area

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[MsFacetious]

So if a 18 year old shows up to buy assault weapons, with a juvenile record a mile long, he would be able to because the records are sealed? Then background checks are pretty much useless.

This is why if people can buy them it needs to be 21+. If they can keep their record clean for 3 years at least that would eliminate some of them. :thinking:

Should consider making it a police substation for the area

Sent from my LGMP260 using Tapatalk

Absolutely. Tearing it down and building a new one is such a waste of money. There has to be a better way. That money could pay for the ongoing care these kids are going to need instead.

 

[kittythehare]

NC is a victim, His bio mom was an addict. So as a baby in the womb, he did not make a decision to take drugs which may have affected his brain and nervous system,

He did not choose to see his father die. He did not choose to have kids make fun of him.

He did not choose to,have brain issues that affected his learning and behavior.

He chose to use guns to kill to deal with his issues. Everyone knows killing is wrong, even him.

Where do they put mass murderers? Roof is going to be executed, McVeigh was executed. So many kill themselves .

He is very much a victim. A child with autism trying with all his might to succeed in a school of normally functioning students.. trying so hard, learning bits of survival, here and there, going home and banging his head while he pretended to not care about the taunting and bullying he was receiving...
Cutting his flesh when he could not get over the end of his relationship with his girlfriend..

What a hopeless helpless impotent rage those actions showed!

To hold a child with autism spectrum disorder to the same account as a fully functioning young adult is comparing chalk and cheese..

It is simply not a rational argument, nor a moral or ethical one..

he knew how to get by through using learned behaviour, macho..
HAVING COMPASSION FOR THE CHILD/ADULT THAT CARRIED OUT THIS ATROCIOUS ACT, IS NOT THE SAME AS BEING COMPLICIT IN IT.

Nor does it detract from the horrendous act itself in any shape size or form or sharing in the grief for the victims.

Perhaps if Nc had not been enrolled in JrOTC training at such a young age, he would never have gained proficiency in the use of guns.

Perhaps if the gun laws were better, he would never have been able to procure a gun..

It is normal to want to apportion blame, but when the perpetrator is as ill as we know NC was, the focus cannot be the same..


Dylan Roof never showed the slightest bit of sorrow for his actions.

I followed his trials carefully and was amazed at his coldness. I doubt he will ever change/repent or feel any empathy sympathy or rapport with his victims. Dylan Roof will in all probability die in the electric chair..

And the people who made that decision went against all they always believed in.. and they prayed about it and they knew they had to do it..

It was very brave of them.

 

[MaryG12]

Oiy! I don't think this is a good idea. I understand students might be uncomfortable going in that building, but that is a LOT of money demolish and rebuild a perfectly good building that could be used for other things, ie security, additional counselors/teachers.

Well Sandy Hook Elementary school was demolished and rebuilt right over the old one:

http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/nationworld/ct-sandy-hook-reopening-20160729-story.html

MOO, I agree with you, PrairieWind. Have no idea how the state of FL can even afford a new building for Parkland, especially after Hurricane Irma. It is true that "snowbirds" pour a ton of money into the state (which is why FL has no state tax) but even then...

 

[jjenny]

When he couldn't get over his relationship with a girl, he threatened her new boyfriend repeatedly, according to that new boyfriend. But lets cry over what a sad little victim he was.

 

[MaryG12]

http://www.sun-sentinel.com/local/b...olas-cruz-left-180-rounds-20180302-story.html

Nikolas Cruz left at least 180 rounds of ammunition — inside magazines that bore Nazi swastika symbols — at the scene of the Parkland school shooting.

..................

Sick...

 

[Gooddeeds]

In this article Roxys name on the filing is spelled Rocxyanne...

https://www.google.com/amp/www.dail...Florida-shooter-court-papers-inheritance.html

 

[PrairieWind]

The idea that they need a new building so that the students are not traumatized by having to go back to school in the same building that they were shot in is a false argument. Think about it. If they want to do it, they first must make a request to the legislature and get approval and funding. How long does that take? A couple of months at least. Then they must hire someone to make demo and reconstruction plans. Maybe the state has pre-approved plans, not sure. But regardless, that will take 5-6 months. Then they must advertise a proposal for bids for both demo and construction. Those bids must then be evaluated and winners selected. Another 4-5 months. The winning construction companies then must make their plans and move equipment. Another couple months. The old building destroyed and debris removed. Depending upon the age of the building, that could take a couple months. The site then must be surveyed, graded and dirt work begins. Then construction of the new building begins. Not sure how big it is, but figure at least a year to year and a half to completion. By the time its ready to be occupied, all the students that were at this high school for the shooting have graduated. In the mean time, the students that would have been going to school in that building have to be put in other local classrooms, doubled up, or put in another school. Instead of doing that, how about the building is just repaired, and students that experienced the shooting do not attend any classes there. They are put in classes in other buildings (something that will have to occur anyway if they build a new one). As the next new freshman class comes in next year, kids that didn't experience the shooting, they are put in classes in that old building, each new class does the same, each year reducing the number of "displaced" kids. Demolishing the old building makes zero sense. In my opinion, the local school board, sensing an opportunity, is looking to get a brand new state of the art class building on the State's dime, not the local school district's. $28 million (and lets be honest, by the time its actually built, the over runs will be like $32 million) could pay a lot of teacher salaries or counselors or security personnel. Don't let emotions be manipulated to over-rule common sense.

 

[Gooddeeds]

He is very much a victim. A child with autism trying with all his might to succeed in a school of normally functioning students.. trying so hard, learning bits of survival, here and there, going home and banging his head while he pretended to not care about the taunting and bullying he was receiving...
Cutting his flesh when he could not get over the end of his relationship with his girlfriend..

What a hopeless helpless impotent rage those actions showed!

To hold a child with autism spectrum disorder to the same account as a fully functioning young adult is comparing chalk and cheese..

It is simply not a rational argument, nor a moral or ethical one..

he knew how to get by through using learned behaviour, macho..
HAVING COMPASSION FOR THE CHILD/ADULT THAT CARRIED OUT THIS ATROCIOUS ACT, IS NOT THE SAME AS BEING COMPLICIT IN IT.

Nor does it detract from the horrendous act itself in any shape size or form or sharing in the grief for the victims.

Perhaps if Nc had not been enrolled in JrOTC training at such a young age, he would never have gained proficiency in the use of guns.

Perhaps if the gun laws were better, he would never have been able to procure a gun..

It is normal to want to apportion blame, but when the perpetrator is as ill as we know NC was, the focus cannot be the same..


Dylan Roof never showed the slightest bit of sorrow for his actions.

I followed his trials carefully and was amazed at his coldness. I doubt he will ever change/repent or feel any empathy sympathy or rapport with his victims. Dylan Roof will in all probability die in the electric chair..

And the people who made that decision went against all they always believed in.. and they prayed about it and they knew they had to do it..

It was very brave of them.

Most know what might be harmful for a pregnant woman to ingest for the sake of choosing health for the infant. Imagine if someone could interfere with the healthy choice you have made and as a result the child is like NC or worse.

His bio Mom didn’t care, and that’s how his life started.

 

[Gooddeeds]

https://www.google.com/search?q=rox...Q7AkIQA&biw=375&bih=612#imgrc=ped0tRAQyu0KrM: