FL - Michelle Mishcon, 53, & John Stevens, 59, murdered, Tequesta, 15 Aug 2016 - #1

[x_files]

Thanks

However, myself I would have shot him dead! KABOOM :justice:

jmo :moo:

If I saw someone eating a person's face I too would would shoot.

 

[Curious Me]

Reading some more on the net by looking up the symptoms described by the gym buddy, it sounds like 'steroid psychosis,' which this can be triggered after going off steriods:

Steroid psychoses tend to be acute in their onset and although mental changes can occur at any time during the course of therapy, most occurred within the first six to 10 hours following the administration of ACTH, or within the first four to six days following the oral administration of corticosteroids. The most frequent initial presentation of an impending steroid psychosis was a state of cerebral hyperexcitability, clearly perceived and reported by the patient. Patients characterize these states as being marked by increased irritability, lability of mood, a profound dysphoria, hyperacusis, and pressured or driven thought processes. These changes often antecede other more serious disturbances of cognition by 72 to 96 hours. Once a steroid psychosis is fully defined it is likely to present as a spectrum psychosis, with the most prominent symptoms consisting of profound distractibility, pressured speech, anxiety, emotional lability, severe insomnia, sensory flooding, depression, perplexity, auditory and visual hallucinations, agitation, intermittent memory impairment, mutism, delusions, disturbances of body image, apathy and hypomania.

http://www.drrichardhall.com/steroid.htm

Thanks so much for finding and posting this. It fits right in with what we know considering the big clues from his videos about steroids. Family wants us to concentrate on his drinking of oil as though it was such strange behavior, but if they really want to understand what was going on before that night, then they should watch those videos because their son talks a whole lot about steroids.

JMO and BBM

 

[GeeEm]

I just caught up. Wow I find the dad, going on TV to be extremely distasteful. Maybe he was part of the problem. Shut up man! Go hold vigil at the hospital or something. Pull your damn self together and have some respect for the victims families. Yuk. He makes me sick.

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Another awesome post ninij9!

You and Curious Me have hit the nail on the head tonight about the father!

jmo :moo:

 

[Curious Me]

I just caught up. Wow I find the dad, going on TV to be extremely distasteful. Maybe he was part of the problem. Shut up man! Go hold vigil at the hospital or something. Pull your damn self together and have some respect for the victims families. Yuk. He makes me sick.

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Your honesty is appreciated. We already know that the right kind of intervention would have saved two beautiful human beings from being brutally slaughtered in their own garage. We are all only too aware here of the possible warning signs that were overlooked. It doesn't sit right with us because the father isn't taking any responsibility yet. He's trying to explain that he just stayed at the restaurant that night, I guess, while saying his son was suicidal and showing signs of the family mental illness left the restaurant distressed and nobody stopped him or ran after him to take him for psychiatric help. Did the family get served and were they eating their meal while the crimes were happening?

 

[SpanishInquisition]

Your honesty is appreciated. We already know that the right kind of intervention would have saved two beautiful human beings from being brutally slaughtered in their own garage. We are all only too aware here of the possible warning signs that were overlooked. It doesn't sit right with us because the father isn't taking any responsibility yet. He's trying to explain that he just stayed at the restaurant that night, I guess, while saying his son was suicidal and showing signs of the family mental illness left the restaurant distressed and nobody stopped him or ran after him to take him for psychiatric help. Did the family get served and were they eating their meal while the crimes were happening?

I really want to know what his family was doing between the time he left the restaurant and the hours later that they called LE.

 

[Curious Me]

Sometimes I have to chuckle at the bizarre things that are reported and the wording. AH's mother forced him to add Parmesan cheese to the oil he was drinking?

From there Austin made his way to his mother Mina's house, according to a spokesman for the Dr Phil show, where he attempted to drink the oil.

His mother forced him to mix with Parmesan cheese before he wolfed that down, after which he left, Dr Harrouff said.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...families-saying-son-never-knowingly-this.html

 

[ninij9]

I really want to know what his family was doing between the time he left the restaurant and the hours later that they called LE.

Yes! I want to know too!! I think I read that they had his Frat bros out looking for him. What I'd like to know for sure is if this really was the FIRST time they had to assemble the troops so to speak.

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[ninij9]

Sometimes I have to chuckle at the bizarre things that are reported and the wording. AH's mother forced him to add Parmesan cheese to the oil he was drinking?

Ha! You made me laugh [emoji4] . I needed that, I know this isn't funny but sometimes levity helps. Gee I hope that was just some weird typo. I can't believe I didn't notice that.

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[CARIIS]

Sometimes I have to chuckle at the bizarre things that are reported and the wording. AH's mother forced him to add Parmesan cheese to the oil he was drinking?

I am telling ya - the more that comes out this is one heck of a dysfunctionial team!

I really want to know what his family was doing between the time he left the restaurant and the hours later that they called LE.

I dont know why, for some reason I do not believe frat friends "exist". The intial story for several days was only family there. It is striking me more that mom "wants" to believe he had friends.

There have been very scant reports from frat brothers - the only stuff I have seen from peers are from decade ago. Then I go back to affluence and being told not to say a word. No romantic stuff ever mentioned, no X gftiend, little Twitter activity, for his age group that is IMO very telling.

I think he was just too strange for folks, would be embarassed to be around him and/or scared of him, or the only thing he was insterested in was his upper body -- I would think that would get boring.

What confuses me is he supposedly had been performing well academically, but with the way stuff has been I have a feeling that that may have been true until last semester, or a decline the last 5 months (you Tube start).

If you think about it the "desire" to go to You Tube and record and post noises has to result in some academic issues. I dont know I think a friend would tell him dude you cant sing - stop putting this stuff out online --moo

Mom - Your child is telling you they are superman, comes home and drinks cooking oil, and you drive him back to the restaurant where he just had a fight, in public, that almost became physical, with his father, and you bring him back for a hamburger??

It is almost as if she knew he was "going" again and just did not want to deal so she dumps him off with dad at a restuarant. Starting to wonder if the sc hzophrenia gene is not on her side of the family!!

Dads statement was mental illness runs in the family. - a lot of us assummed he was refering to HIS family - might be her side of the family?

Her 911 call did not help create a sense of urgency for LE either- her affect was off throughout the call IMO- does anyone know her vocationial history??

Its not like you can get in "trouble" with LE for calling - what would the logic be in waiting for four hours. Logic would say if you get cops looking for him soon you would find him - he is on foot? Why not activate BOLO quick, none of this would have happened. moo

Are steroids on the black market? maybe the frat guys are afraid they could get in legal trouble if they all were using them. The media not "stalking" the suppossed frat friends is odd. They are not minors-- we ahve not even got a "did not want to talk to the media" deal. Nothing about his friends.

"Friends", at least some would want to go on air to protect their friends - he was fine that kinda thing. The silence is very curious IMO - and the longer it goes I am also pondering that some of them may have been using flaka or bath salts and are afraid to get "involved".

Do we know anything about the sister - age, does she live with one of the parents, job, school, were they close/conflicted.

 

[Curious Me]

I noticed that the prior post was talking about corticosteroids which I connected with Prednisone which I had a strong reaction at one time. Anabolic steroids are different, but it seems strong reactions are possible in both.

Steroid psychoses tend to be acute in their onset and although mental changes can occur at any time during the course of therapy, most occurred within the first six to 10 hours following the administration of ACTH, or within the first four to six days following the oral administration of corticosteroids. The most frequent initial presentation of an impending steroid psychosis...
http://www.drrichardhall.com/steroid.htm

If AH did take steroids they'd be anabolic steroids, not the corticosteroid steroid drugs which would include cortisone, hydrocortisone and prednisone that are useful in treating many conditions, such as rashes, lupus and asthma, etc.,

I took some snippets from this three page article about the anabolic steroids. The liver is mentioned. Also noted that there's sometimes mania, delusions, and non-violent people have been known to commit murder under the influence.

ANABOLIC STEROIDS
http://www.webmd.com/men/anabolic-steriods#1

Sometimes doctors prescribe anabolic steroids to help people with certain kinds of anemia and men who don't produce enough testosterone on their own. Doctors also prescribe a different kind of steroid, called corticosteroids, to reduce swelling. Corticosteroids are not anabolic steroids and do not have the same harmful effects.

On the street, steroids may be called roids or juice.
.....Androgenic refers to increased male characteristics. But even scientists shorten it to anabolic steroids.

Some steroid users pop pills. Others use hypodermic needles to inject steroids directly into muscles. When users take more and more of a drug over and over again, they are called "abusers." Abusers have been known to take doses 10 to 100 times higher than the amount prescribed for medical reasons by a doctor.

Many steroid users take two or more kinds of steroids at once. Called stacking, this way of taking steroids is supposed to get users bigger faster. Some abusers pyramid their doses in 6-12-week cycles.

Using steroids, guys can experience shrunken testicles and reduced sperm count. They can also end up with breasts, a condition called gynecomastia.

When steroids get into the body, they go to different organs and muscles. Steroids affect individual cells and make them create proteins. These proteins spell trouble.

The liver, for example, can grow tumors and develop cancer. Steroid abusers may also develop a rare condition called peliosis hepatis in which blood-filled cysts crop up on the liver. Both the tumors and cysts can rupture and cause internal bleeding.

Steroids Can Cause Extreme Mood Changes

Steroids can also mess with your head. Homicidal rage can come from how steroids act on the brain. That's right. Non-violent people have been known to commit murder under the influence of these synthetic hormones.

Your moods and emotions are balanced by the limbic system of your brain. Steroids act on the limbic system and may cause irritability and mild depression. Eventually, steroids can cause mania, delusions, and violent aggression or "roid rage."

 

[jjenny]

If it was on the bad side of the town the cops may have reacted differently jumpier maybe quicker to shoot then ask questions like they did with Rudy The Miami Causeway Cannibal but w/o footage there's no way we'll know how the scene went down.

Are people complaining that Rudy was shot? Rudy mutilated victim's face. That victim is still alive, although blind and with mutilated face. However he might have been shot too, so it isn't safe for the victim when police is shooting an attacker who is on top of the victim. Which police in AH's case was trying to avoid.


https://www.theguardian.com/world/us-news-blog/2012/jun/12/miami-face-eating-victim

 

[CARIIS]

Much longer release of police calls on scene---- At around 340 or so you can hear him in background

anyone know what some of the codes mean.

http://www.nydailynews.com/news/cri...nt-chaotic-scene-teen-kills-article-1.2763889

 

[CARIIS]

Fisher family :

http://www.sun-sentinel.com/news/florida/fl-martin-county-face-bite-case-update-20160823-story.html

Harrouff was eating dinner with his father, his father's girlfriend or wife,(how do you not know who was there a week and a half later?) his sister and one of his friends-- was the wife there at Duffys??

First time I heard this angle, the reason why noone knows what he drank - makes me wonder if they do know--- "caustic fluid" in the garage, but officials would not identify the substance because of medical privacy laws.

 

[Curious Me]

Hello CARIIS! Love what you said, "I am telling ya - the more that comes out this is one heck of a dysfunctionial team!"

I did some searching on my own and found a fb, but we can't discuss or sleuth family members. :silenced:

I think both children were very involved in school and sports, and basically good kids. My take is that Mom seems an involved parent but she might be the type of mother that for whatever reason looks to the father to control and discipline the children and maybe his approach exasperates her. He's suppose to be the important Dr. H, and probably more dominant personality, although we know he's had problems with DUI's and strip clubs. Mom makes sure there's cheese in the oil, but misses some important big blaring things going on.

 

[Curious Me]

Much longer release of police calls on scene---- At around 340 or so you can hear him in background

anyone know what some of the codes mean.

http://www.nydailynews.com/news/cri...nt-chaotic-scene-teen-kills-article-1.2763889

I tried, but I'm no good at listening to scanners. I'd be yelling "WHAT?" if I had that job.

Here's some police code lists:
http://www.policecodes.net/
http://scansandiego.net/Scanner/police_codes.html

 

[Curious Me]

Fisher family :

http://www.sun-sentinel.com/news/florida/fl-martin-county-face-bite-case-update-20160823-story.html

Harrouff was eating dinner with his father, his father's girlfriend or wife,(how do you not know who was there a week and a half later?) his sister and one of his friends-- was the wife there at Duffys??

First time I heard this angle, the reason why noone knows what he drank - makes me wonder if they do know--- "caustic fluid" in the garage, but officials would not identify the substance because of medical privacy laws.

See, I knew I'd seen that he was visiting on a summer break. I think he was away at school then came home which explains why family only started noticing his weird behavior more recently.

Harrouff, who was visiting family in South Florida on summer break,...

http://www.sun-sentinel.com/news/florida/fl-martin-county-face-bite-case-update-20160823-story.html

 

[Coquette]

RBBM

Last year, I had to run off 3 young boys, not even teenagers in my neighborhood, for trying to shoot the birds in my backyard. I approached them, and asked what they were trying to do? One ran back to his house and dropped what appeared to be a bb gun, not certain, but the other 2 was nice and polite stating they were trying to shoot the birds. I told them, "well personally, if I talk to your parents, I do not think they are going to be too happy, when I explain to them what you three were doing." Those two explained it was the boy that ran off, idea to do this, and I stated, it doesn't matter, you all were a part of this, and I am certain your parents will not be happy. To this day I have yet to see them with anything that appears to be a gun, and I do not see any mental illness in these children, I seen meanness as my mama would say.

I just do not have empathy for AH's parents if they continue with the mental illness issue. IMO, they need to address their son was just pure evil from some type of drug, fluids, etc. Until then, NO! My sympathy goes out to the victims who were murdered savagely and their families. :rose:

Also, the father must not be lawyer-ed up as much as he is willing to talk. SMH :notgood:

jmo :moo:

RBBM: Foriguve me, but until he has been assessed by an *actual* mental health professional or has had his brain scanned and analyzed (or dissected postmortem if he dies to determine underlying brain issues/trauma/disease), why on earth shouldn't his parents consider that he had developed a serious mental illness? He certainly exhibited the signs of one in recent weeks. Hearing voices, delusions and odd/ erratic behavior could have been precursors leading up to a complete break from reality. Let's let the professionals determine if he was on drugs or steroids. He may very well have been on both, and it certainly sounds like he had been using steroids, but this doesn't mean he wasn't mentally ill as well. Not everything is so black and white. MOO.

 

[Curious Me]

These are older news articles with a couple of quotes I wanted to post here.

A person familiar with the family gave CBS12 two snap-chats Austin sent out, just hours before the gruesome attack. The pictures show him making faces for the camera with the words "Trump" and "the horse" captioning the images.

It's not clear where the pictures were taken and what the words mean.

http://cbs12.com/news/local/who-is-austin-harrouff

and this--

There’s a reason investigators are waiting to charge the suspect.

“As long as he’s there not under arrest his medical records are his responsibility,” said Martin County Sheriff William Snyder Thursday. “As soon as we make the arrest taxpayers will be beginning footing the bill."

Austin Harrouff: Martin County stabbing suspect gets new attorney
Updated: 9:58 AM, Aug 19, 2016
http://www.wptv.com/news/region-mar...tin-county-stabbing-suspect-gets-new-attorney

 

[Curious Me]

..............snipped for reply.......

Also, the father must not be lawyer-ed up as much as he is willing to talk. SMH :notgood:

jmo :moo:

See, I would think the father would definitely have his own attorney to guide him through these stupid interviews he's doing, in my opinion, way too soon. I don't know, but it seems he could be sued in a civil case by the family of the victims...I have no idea how that would be possible though. This show is already recorded, I guess, and there's no tox results yet and his son is supposedly fighting for his life. We have no idea what will happen before this show airs.

What's he going to say? Perhaps we'll finally find out what the rest of the family did or ate while AH went off to commit the crimes.

“It’s the worst thing I could ever think of. This is the biggest nightmare I could ever even dream of,” an emotional Harouff tells Dr. Phil in the episode airing Wednesday, September 7. “I’m deeply sorry for what my son did to those people. And I’ll apologize for him, because my own son would have never done that ... He’s such a good person. He would never knowingly do something like that. I’m truly sorry to those people.”

http://www.drphil.com/videos/the-fat...ut-to-dr-phil/

(Snipped by me to reply) .........................................................fftobed:.....................

 

[glf]

Sometimes I have to chuckle at the bizarre things that are reported and the wording. AH's mother forced him to add Parmesan cheese to the oil he was drinking?

That sounds even less appetizing than swigging the oil straight out of the bottle! Maybe she was thinking it would make him sick. Probably would have been better to eat a slice of bread with it. But I know most of us are thinking she forced a 19 year old to do anything! My kids wouldn't have been mean about it, but they probably said NO!

P.S. I'm sure his son was a normal 19 yr old before he got mixed up with drugs. But drugs can change people in a very short period of time.