GUILTY GA - Lauren Giddings, 27, Macon, 26 June 2011 # 7

[SmoothOperator]

MOO regarding Stephen's newly recovered memory about MM(and thanks Hyrax as I now have stuck singing, " Do you know the Maintenance Man?..Maintenance Man..Maintenance Man..") his being in the dead of night roused from his sleep..Glenda tells us that he then dons clothing of some sort before emerging out of his front door and out on to the balcony he shares with neighbor, Lauren where he sees MM/DD[which Glenda makes clear that it was the portion of the shared balcony that was Lauren's is where Stephen came face to face with MM/DD}.. Glenda then continues to relay to us her son's tale and that as the MM/DD stares blankly out into the midnight’s darkness he says to Stephen, “I am thinking about cutting the grass.” {thru which Glenda leads us to believe that was to start immediately cutting the grass, as in during the middle of the night}.. To which Stephen, her son nonchalantly, unsuspectingly, gullibly says as he’s moseying on back into his apt to return to bed, “Well, won’t bother me none cuz I can sleep through anything.”.. ok?..really?..whatever...

Glenda then proceeds to tell us that it is only after having the shock of his friend’s heinous murder ware off that only then did he recover this memory..{MOO is it had less to do with shock of Lauren’s death waring off and much more to do with his landing right up in the pokey with 2 felony charges and anxiously awaiting the murder charge that came soon thereafter..but MOO}.. According to Glenda it was only at this point did it occur to him that... “who cuts the grass at midnight in the pitch dark of night?”.. and then :lightbulb: appears over his voluminous mane of hair as it also occurs to him that... “well, by-golly-gee mom, come to think of it there ain’t even no grass anywhere near mine or Lauren’s apts..” where he ran into DD/MM and had this newly recovered memory of this convo of DD’s having told him of his plans to cut the grass at midnight of that Thursday night.. “gee, momma, there ain’t no grass at all except at the back of the property..” Glenda ever so gingerly and making light with humor says thats just what kind of extremely naive, childlike totally unsuspecting ever of anything nefarious in any way could somebody her son actually lived near and was a classmate of.. his innocent little mind couldn’t even comprehend that someone would be “up to no good” out there on his neighbor, Lauren’s balcony in the dead of night and fed him such a fib as he was “gonna cut the grass”..

Golly-gee-bob..imagine that someone with nefarious thoughts and agendas slinking around an apt complex in the dark of night?[MOO but ya add in that the "someone" slinking around also had an illegally acquired masterkey giving him access to every apt in the complex and I'd say this tale is much more likely descriptive of her very own son, Stephen and not some imagination run wild creation of your son's stating its the Big Bad ol' Maintenance Man running loose and amuck thru the apt complex threatening to cut imaginary grass in the dead of midnight..But again MOO]

Glenda ends the tale with the fact that her little boy "could just kick himself" now realizing that Big Bad Maintenance Man was "up to no good!".. and sadly for Lauren, Glenda's little boy due to his being so innocent minded with only thoughts and dreams of sugar plum fairies dancing in his little head, wasn't capable of recognizing that someone bad was "up to no good"..therefor her little boy, Stephen wasn't able "to help his friend, Lauren"..

So in knowing this tall tale of the Big Bad Maintenance Man how exactly was it again that he had totally no memory or recollection of having that bizarro-Pee-wee-Under-the-Big-Top type of middle of the night, memorable for life run-in face to face with the "real killer"???? Could someone run that by me again how easily explainable and believable it is that he forgot this throughout interviews, on cam and off, searches for the girl whose balcony this Big Bad Maintenance Man was on in the dead of night, interrogations, and an entire plethora of any given moments that this man could have and would have told this be it were the truth?????? None of those times did he recall this larger than life crazy-azz tale of his being awoken on the very night of the alleged break-in at his neighbors.. Not until booked and charged with two felonies with his tall-tale telling-azz landing in the pokey awaiting the third felony murder charge that came very soon thereafter did Glenda's whittle, ittie, bittie, teensy, tiny, innocent, whittle, baby boy come up with this heavy, heaping, humongous, steaming pile of horse chit!!!

 

[bessie]

This is as good a place as any to say thanks to bessie and to the poster (I'm sorry I don't recall just who it was) who first suggested the media thread. I'm already making good use of it. My days are hectic and I never know when I get online how long I will have to stay there ... the easier reference to links is great.

I'm glad you're enjoying it. I'm still working on filling in blank spots, but it's about 90% complete. If anyone has a link I missed, or if any of the links don't work, please let me know. This case will go on for awhile, and it will become more and more difficult to remember what's transpired, so the media thread will be a good resource for fact checking and getting caught up if you fall behind.

Also, another member brought to my attention that it's in reverse order. I was under the impression most members have their threads set to display last post first, like I do. If you don't, the first posts might be awkward. I did use a purple font for the dates to make it a little easier to read. From here on, it will flow better because I'll add a new post each day or two.

 

[ehmadpotter]

(b) McD as the impotent, spineless little puppet boy, controlled his entire life by his puppet-mistress mother until he finally snapped, now desperately spewing word vomit that's intended for her alone so she'll keep thinking he's a good boy - which she then latches onto, manipulating and publishing for her selfish purposes.

.

Thank you! You put into words much more precisely what I have felt in my gut, but could not put into words. I think your scenario (b) hits the nail on the head, and says a lot about the severely dysfunctional relationship between SM and his mummy. I think he has been controlled and intimidated by his overbearing, controlling, NEEDY, narscistic, living-vicariously-though-her-spawn mother his whole life. NOT that I am excusing his behavior, if in fact he is guilty of this crime, but I can see where maybe he hates women with a mom like that. Like SmoothOperator said, sort of, nothing we know of her so far tells us she is/was a monster mom, but she gives me a deep, sick feeling in my gut. Just my instincts. She gives me more shivers than SM himself. MOO!

 

[~SuperSleuth~]

I believe the apartment was messy due to the investigation, because in a more recent article it was stated McD was indeed quite neat. Anyone know which article that was?

DW says he visited McDaniel’s apartment a couple of times and remembers the place being tidy.“He’d be a great roommate,” DW, 58, says.

http://www.macon.com/2011/08/07/1657322/man-on-the-street-how-fledgling.html

There was also this reference.

While police have revealed little to nothing about their “person of interest,” McDaniel, some who have been inside his apartment in recent days say its contents lent hints about the man who lived there.

“Looked like he was an organize freak,” said a plumber who’d been hammering to repair a tub drain inside McDaniel’s now-vacant apartment No. 4 on Friday.

McDaniel’s relatives removed his belongings last weekend, but in the days before they did, the plumber had been inside briefly and noticed the orderly appearance of McDaniel’s things.

http://www.macon.com/2011/07/31/1649731/giddings-case-apartments-gradually.html

 

[Wondergirl]

All good points... but speaking for myself, I am still pretty sure that if I were standing in SM's shoes as an innocent person and the press (or anyone else) asked me if I knew whether LG had enemies or anyone who wanted to hurt her, I would not immediately connect the dots to someone who was (a) a neighbor, (b) an authority figure at my apartment complex and (c) a fellow student for a period of years being on a shared, publicly accessible balcony, even if the proffered explanation for being there were odd.

While we are on this topic... Why would SM make the story so crazy? I mean... cutting a non-existent lawn in the middle of the night? Why not just say, "I just remembered that I saw so and so on the balcony at midnight and it just occurred to me that there's really no reason for him to have been there", or even to ascribe some false but not nutty explanation (e.g., "He said he was on the balcony checking the railing because he glanced up and thought he had noticed a loose piece of railing from the ground"). I look at a few pieces of information in this case and sometimes think that, if it were premeditated, then part of the plan must have been to make it so ridiculous and bungling that people would hear it and say, "Even a complete idiot would be smarter than that, and he's a law school graduate. Nobody is that stupid. Not guilty!"

BBM:I wondered this too, and perhaps it's because he actually is
crazy?:waitasec:

 

[southern_comfort]

Thank you! You put into words much more precisely what I have felt in my gut, but could not put into words. I think your scenario (b) hits the nail on the head, and says a lot about the severely dysfunctional relationship between SM and his mummy. I think he has been controlled and intimidated by his overbearing, controlling, NEEDY, narscistic, living-vicariously-though-her-spawn mother his whole life. NOT that I am excusing his behavior, if in fact he is guilty of this crime, but I can see where maybe he hates women with a mom like that. Like SmoothOperator said, sort of, nothing we know of her so far tells us she is/was a monster mom, but she gives me a deep, sick feeling in my gut. Just my instincts. She gives me more shivers that SM himself. MOO!

Glad to be of service! I wish I had such strong convictions about this case.

(Actually, I don't wish that. I like my spot on the fence. I just need more information!).

 

[~SuperSleuth~]

Now, I know you know that is very implausible. If that had happened, we would have heard it in the very beginning, and he would have been under the jail from Day One.

I'm still torn about that refrigerator because the articles never once, ever, in any way, shape, or manner stated this tenant left that apartment for a week and then came back to move out after the body was found. The only statement made was this tenant was moving out during the time LG was missing and didn't complete moving out until after she was found. That leaves the door wide open for them to be in and out of that apartment the entire time she was missing. Everyone has them being somewhere else for that week, but it has not been stated anywhere that I have read.

Has anyone else seen it stated that the tenant from the downstairs apartment left for the week LG was missing and did not return at all until after the body was found?

I believe this quote, and the others you've apparently seen, is as good as it gets.
True, they would have had keys and access during this period.
And, no one has stated unequivocally that they were gone and did not enter the apt during that time.
However, no one has suggested otherwise either, and they were apparently cleared by LE
and have never been considered as a POI to my knowledge.

As has apartment No. 1 a floor below, beneath where Giddings lived. That apartment’s refrigerator was hauled away by detectives on July 13, apparently bound for a forensic lab, and it will need to be replaced for a new resident, Bush said, because the one taken by police isn’t expected to be returned for six to nine months.

The last person who lived there, a law school classmate of Giddings and McDaniel from Dublin, had moved out by the time the refrigerator was taken. Bush said the resident had left and carried off most of his stuff before Giddings was killed.

But on the day he went back for a final clean out, he was so shaken by what may have transpired there that he asked Bush to stay with him while he picked up.

http://www.macon.com/2011/07/31/1649731/giddings-case-apartments-gradually.html

 

[Destini]

So in knowing this tall tale of the Big Bad Maintenance Man how exactly was it again that he had totally no memory or recollection of having that bizarro-Pee-wee-Under-the-Big-Top type of middle of the night, memorable for life run-in face to face with the "real killer"???? Could someone run that by me again how easily explainable and believable it is that he forgot this throughout interviews, on cam and off, searches for the girl whose balcony this Big Bad Maintenance Man was on in the dead of night, interrogations, and an entire plethora of any given moments that this man could have and would have told this be it were the truth?????? None of those times did he recall this larger than life crazy-azz tale of his being awoken on the very night of the alleged break-in at his neighbors.. Not until booked and charged with two felonies with his tall-tale telling-azz landing in the pokey awaiting the third felony murder charge that came very soon thereafter did Glenda's whittle, ittie, bittie, teensy, tiny, innocent, whittle, baby boy come up with this heavy, heaping, humongous, steaming pile of horse chit!!!

(respectfully snipped)

So tell us how you really feel .... lol

 

[bessie]

Now, I know you know that is very implausible. If that had happened, we would have heard it in the very beginning, and he would have been under the jail from Day One.

I'm still torn about that refrigerator because the articles never once, ever, in any way, shape, or manner stated this tenant left that apartment for a week and then came back to move out after the body was found. The only statement made was this tenant was moving out during the time LG was missing and didn't complete moving out until after she was found. That leaves the door wide open for them to be in and out of that apartment the entire time she was missing. Everyone has them being somewhere else for that week, but it has not been stated anywhere that I have read.

Has anyone else seen it stated that the tenant from the downstairs apartment left for the week LG was missing and did not return at all until after the body was found?

Not quite. For now, we have this:

The last person who lived there, a law school classmate of Giddings and McDaniel from Dublin, had moved out by the time the refrigerator was taken. Bush said the resident had left and carried off most of his stuff before Giddings was killed.

But on the day he went back for a final clean out, he was so shaken by what may have transpired there that he asked Bush to stay with him while he picked up.

Read more: http://www.macon.com/2011/07/31/1649731/giddings-case-apartments-gradually.html#ixzz1UgJJW7s7
​

 

[Wondergirl]

I would like to know if the refrigerator was on, and everything was cold when:

-the tenant moved out

-LE entered the vacant apartment originally

Wouldn't it be possible for the decomp particles (if she was in there ) to get trapped in the air filtration unit of the fridge, if it was on the entire time?

Wouldn't the hydro usage for the vacant apartment indicate a spike in electricity usage for the apartment, say, when lights were turned on, etc.if it is the crime scene? In Canada, you can see every minute detail for your electricity usage for your bil, 24 x 7. You can see if there is a spike in usage, while you are not at the house etc.

This may help LE determine a TOD, or give them a narrowed time frame to use in this crime.

 

[PsychoMom]

I believe this quote, and the others you've apparently seen, is as good as it gets.
True, they would have had keys and access during this period.
And, no one has stated unequivocally that they were gone and did not enter the apt during that time.
However, no one has suggested otherwise either, and they were apparently cleared by LE
and have never been considered as a POI to my knowledge.

There is at least one other article early on where the statement was something to the effect of: "The tenant of the downstairs apartment was in the process of moving out during the week LG was missing. They returned to get the rest of their items after her body was discovered." I'll try to find that article. To me, that clearly indicates they were moving items out of the apartment the week she was missing. That would mean they were in and out of that apartment regularly. And it would be likely they might decide to store some cold beverages in the refrigerator if they were moving on a hot summer day in Macon, GA. If we don't have anything saying they were out of the apartment, cleared or not, then how can we say they were?

 

[bessie]

snipped for focus

Wouldn't it be possible for the decomp particles (if she was in there ) to get trapped in the air filtration unit of the fridge, if it was on the entire time?

I don't know if you saw my earlier post.

A qualified forensic entomologist can also make inferences as to possible postmortem movement of a corpse. Some flies prefer specific habitats such as a distinct preference for laying their eggs in an outdoor or indoor environment...

Similarly, freezing or wrapping of the body may be indicated by an altered species succession of insects on the body...

The DNA of human blood can be recovered from the digestive tract of an insect that has fed on an individual...

http://www.forensicentomology.com/info.htm

 

[PsychoMom]

http://www.macon.com/2011/07/14/1630766/refrigerator-removed-from-apartment.html

Late Wednesday afternoon, investigators removed a refrigerator from the ground-floor apartment next door to Spencer’s for further forensics testing. That apartment, No. 1, is directly below Giddings’, and police have now sealed it.

Its tenant was in the process of moving during the time Giddings was missing, Bush said. Most of the furnishings had been removed before Giddings’ body was found, and the tenant has since finished moving out.

 

[angelanalyzes]

Not meaning to interrupt any discussions going on right now, but did anyone else catch this (near the bottom of this article)? Does this mean Boni Bush may have inadvertently put the torso in the trash? Was she cleaning out Apt. #1? She wouldn't have been taking out trash from any other apt., would she??

http://georgiaslate.com/blog/macon-news/hacksaw-linked-to-mcdaniel-in-giddings-case-warrant-says

Bush said she can remember throwing something in the trash can June 29, the day before Lauren Giddings’ torso was discovered, bundled in plastic, in the roll-away bin beside apartment No. 1.
Bush said she didn’t smell any foul odors.

I think it's meant to read: "Bush said she can remember throwing something in the trash can June 29, COMMA, the day before Lauren Gidding's torso was discovered..."

 

[Knox]

http://www.macon.com/2011/07/14/1630766/refrigerator-removed-from-apartment.html

I think we discussed this very topic at length in another thread, I was going to go back and try to find the posts, but I'm not very good with the search tool. To me, it's clear he was not in and out of the apartment during the time Lauren was missing. I also think BB would have said so if that were true.

Perhaps an email to one of the macon.com reporters could lay the matter to rest?

 

[~SuperSleuth~]

I would like to know if the refrigerator was on, and everything was cold when:

-the tenant moved out

-LE entered the vacant apartment originally

Wouldn't it be possible for the decomp particles (if she was in there ) to get trapped in the air filtration unit of the fridge, if it was on the entire time?

To my knowledge, we don't know what state the fridge was in.

For your info, there is no "air filtration system" in a refrigerator.
(unless maybe it's some new age, expensive unit - which you won't find in a rental)
When you adjust the temperature settings for a refrigerator, there are generally 2 knobs.
One sets the temperature for the freezer, the other adjusts an opening which allows that cold air to "fall" into the lower portion.
This is somewhat assisted by the fan that moves air from the lower portion, through the coils and back into the freezer.
So, within this ductwork and around the evaporator coil, any airborne particles could become trapped.
There may also be mold present in areas, which could additionally hold some forensic value.
And, as you may have seen a few posts back,
bessie provided a link about Forensic entomology.
http://www.forensicentomology.com/info.htm

This page has a diagram that may help...
http://home.howstuffworks.com/how-to-repair-a-refrigerator.htm
I'm surprised I couldn't find a better diagram of this for you... I did try

Wouldn't the hydro usage for the vacant apartment indicate a spike in electricity usage for the apartment, say, when lights were turned on, etc.if it is the crime scene? In Canada, you can see every minute detail for your electricity usage for your bil, 24 x 7. You can see if there is a spike in usage, while you are not at the house etc.

This may help LE determine a TOD, or give them a narrowed time frame to use in this crime.

For the water, only if the usage was really excessive would the meter reading be of any significance.
It's also possible this is included in the rent, with that building (4 units) sharing a meter.

For the electricity, if the unit has one of the newer digital "smart" meters,
they might be able to get the type of detailed info you're referring to.
I find it unlikely that those apartments would, although I don't really know for sure.
So, I doubt that info is available.

 

[angelanalyzes]

Now, I know you know that is very implausible. If that had happened, we would have heard it in the very beginning, and he would have been under the jail from Day One.

I'm still torn about that refrigerator because the articles never once, ever, in any way, shape, or manner stated this tenant left that apartment for a week and then came back to move out after the body was found. The only statement made was this tenant was moving out during the time LG was missing and didn't complete moving out until after she was found. That leaves the door wide open for them to be in and out of that apartment the entire time she was missing. Everyone has them being somewhere else for that week, but it has not been stated anywhere that I have read.

Has anyone else seen it stated that the tenant from the downstairs apartment left for the week LG was missing and did not return at all until after the body was found?

A lot about the investigation isn't being stated in articles, doesn't mean we can't deduce certain things. It was stated that the tenants did not return until after the body was discovered, bessie has pointed it out before.
The thing is, the reporters aren't writing with questions from WS in mind. The general public is just looking over the articles for what they are, not spending the time we are analyzing every single bit, unfortunately. If one of us could get a hold of a reporter and ask if a) they know whether or not the tenant ever returned *at all* before the body was discovered [even though they have reported that the tenant did not return until after the body was discovered] b) if they don't know, could they please return to their sources and ascertain that information?
But I'm pretty confident they meant what they said.
Also, while I do think it's pretty implausible that McD asked to use the fridge for some reason since the tenant wasn't going to be using it and he didn't have room for whatever, I don't think if he had done that, that would have automatically lead to an arrest and the information being widely known. They didn't find her body in that fridge, in fact we don't know what they found at all. So, had he asked to use the fridge, it wouldn't be damning enough necessarily for an arrest. They would still have to prove he put the body in the fridge and at this point we don't know what exactly they found as evidence in that fridge. It's possible that the only reason the fridge was removed is that the ME concluded her torso must have been kept refrigerated/frozen and through process of elimination [for example, both Lauren and Stephen's units did not have enough space to fit the remains] they determined the downstairs unit would be a good place to look, since the apartment was pretty much vacant and they know McD had a masterkey.
So, even if they had heard from the tenant that McD had used their fridge, he wouldn't necessarily have been charged with murder just on that basis alone, unless what they found in the fridge was blood and tissue from LG that was visible with the naked eye and didn't require extensive testing to confirm.
At any rate, I still think he just felt it was a very safe bet the tenants would not be returning during that time.

 

[Knox]

Just going over some of the potential evidence in my mind.

If the DNA came back from the hacksaw ... What about the drains? Makes me wonder if there was not any present. We've discussed the use of plastic. If he bundled it up put it in another plastic trash bag and threw it away, where is it now? Barrister dumpster, another commercial dumpster in town?

Does the McD family own any property other than the home in Lilburn? Any other family members own property with a cabin on it?

 

[angelanalyzes]

Upthread many have discussed hacksaw------who bought it,---who used it,
---used it for what,--used it when,
---exact location where hacksaw wrapper/packaging was found, etc.
And all seem to work from premise that hacksaw frame & blade were not separated at any time.

Bessie raised a good point: what if SMcD bought two hacksaws?

If both blade and frame both bore Lauren’s blood or other DNA, nothing unusual, but from a slightly different angle…..

What if BLADE was SEPARATED from HACKSAW FRAME,
at some point, before being re-joined, and later found by LE?

Could DNA tests show--
-- hacksaw blade bears Lauren’s blood or other DNA, and
-- hacksaw frame does not bear Lauren’s DNA,

Could that open the door about who tried to plant evidence where, against who?

Just wondering.

If the hacksaw had been cleaned, it's likely that the only part that would still retain DNA would be the blade, it would be much harder to get everything out of the teeth of the blade than it would off the smoother handle part. So if the handle was clean and the blade retained DNA it might not necessarily mean anything.

 

[PsychoMom]

I know a lot of you have concluded the resident in the downstairs apartment simply didn't come back during the week LG was missing. I have serious doubts based on what has been reported. I would love to hear a definite answer and not a guess on this one, but I guess that isn't happening. It throws a monkey wrench into a lot of theories if they were in and out of the apartment. It could mean they were also involved. It could mean they never looked in the refrigerator. It could mean the body was never in the refrigerator. It could mean a lot of things.

I am not trying to make anyone get defensive, but I am looking at the words written in the news articles based on the reports by BB. If she is stating exactly what happened, and they were moving out that week, then the refrigerator is most likely out of play. So, how could these theories work if McD DID NOT use the downstairs refrigerator?