Gosh I hope you're not right. There are hundreds, if not thousands of players on game sites like Steam and huge audiences for movies like "Fight Night" and so on. If this is the sort of interest that prepares people to commit murders, then we're all in deep doo doo, imo. Anyway, I gather you don't think my latest theory holds water. Oh well. Another one bites the dust. LOL. <modsnip> MOO. IMO.
General Discussion and Theories #2
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Gosh I hope you're not right. There are hundreds, if not thousands of players on game sites like Steam and huge audiences for movies like "Fight Night" and so on. If this is the sort of interest that prepares people to commit murders, then we're all in deep doo doo, imo. Anyway, I gather you don't think my latest theory holds water. Oh well. Another one bites the dust. LOL. <modsnip> MOO. IMO.
Snoofo
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I think LE has been good about staying quiet and imo its possible we only know a small fraction of what there is to know. Who knows where other evidence points?
Also, dont forget, in a successful frame, all evidence is supposed to point to the accused.
Snoofo
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I, for a time, wondered about those seats.
Did SB indicate in her televised interview whether the truck was purchased new or used? If used, I hope there was a previous owner check by LE to see if any connection could be made.
swedie
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Theories I can see plausible, that I have considered where MS was involved and DM being the innocent dupe. JMO
- MS owed money for a drug debt and the dealer asked him to steal him a Dodge Ram 3500 diesel as pay off. DM has no knowledge of this drug debt or MS intention of stealing a truck. MS asks DM to go with him to test drive trucks he is interested in buying, because he may not have had a license and/or insurance. MS sits in the back and murders TB. Dealer does not what the truck now with blood in it OR tells them to take it and chop it for him, OR deliver it somewhere else in the trailer, OR drug supplier doesn't show up at planned location. They are now stuck with a stolen truck and deceased TB. Their DNA is in the truck so they try to get rid of evidence quickly.
- MS, like in theory above go with DM and TB on test drive, MS telling DM where to drive. MS leading DM to the industrial area where drug supplier(s) who MS owes money to are waiting. It is the supplier(s) who murdered TB and not DM or MS. BUT DM and MS are left with TB's dead body while the actual murderers take off. Knowing they were involved in criminal behaviour (drug dealings), they cannot call LE, so decide to get rid of evidence.
- Same as first and second theory, different ending though. DM drives to where drug supplier(s) are, leave TB there with the supplier(s) and his truck and DM and MS take off with whomever was driving the Yukon. After they take off, TB is murdered by supplier(s). They know who DM and MS are and plant the evidence pointing at them as the murderers.
I've been waiting forever for a somewhat reasonable theory excluding DM as the murderer and no one has suggested this IIRC. Some have suggested drugs...So being as this has been in my mind sooo long, I thought I would now share. BUT I find it still very sketchy as to why DM had stolen vehicle(s) in his hangar and an incinerator on his farmland. Also the fact that LB is missing and the death of his father in November 2012. Just seems so bizarre for someone to have so many bad ties to them and all so close together. Coincidence?! I don't believe so. Criminal activity is what I smell and it smells rotten. ALL MOO.
- MS owed money for a drug debt and the dealer asked him to steal him a Dodge Ram 3500 diesel as pay off. DM has no knowledge of this drug debt or MS intention of stealing a truck. MS asks DM to go with him to test drive trucks he is interested in buying, because he may not have had a license and/or insurance. MS sits in the back and murders TB. Dealer does not what the truck now with blood in it OR tells them to take it and chop it for him, OR deliver it somewhere else in the trailer, OR drug supplier doesn't show up at planned location. They are now stuck with a stolen truck and deceased TB. Their DNA is in the truck so they try to get rid of evidence quickly.
- MS, like in theory above go with DM and TB on test drive, MS telling DM where to drive. MS leading DM to the industrial area where drug supplier(s) who MS owes money to are waiting. It is the supplier(s) who murdered TB and not DM or MS. BUT DM and MS are left with TB's dead body while the actual murderers take off. Knowing they were involved in criminal behaviour (drug dealings), they cannot call LE, so decide to get rid of evidence.
- Same as first and second theory, different ending though. DM drives to where drug supplier(s) are, leave TB there with the supplier(s) and his truck and DM and MS take off with whomever was driving the Yukon. After they take off, TB is murdered by supplier(s). They know who DM and MS are and plant the evidence pointing at them as the murderers.
I've been waiting forever for a somewhat reasonable theory excluding DM as the murderer and no one has suggested this IIRC. Some have suggested drugs...So being as this has been in my mind sooo long, I thought I would now share. BUT I find it still very sketchy as to why DM had stolen vehicle(s) in his hangar and an incinerator on his farmland. Also the fact that LB is missing and the death of his father in November 2012. Just seems so bizarre for someone to have so many bad ties to them and all so close together. Coincidence?! I don't believe so. Criminal activity is what I smell and it smells rotten. ALL MOO.
I like your theory number one, because it reminded me that I think I read somewhere that one (or more?) of MS's priors was for impaired driving, which could possibly match with not having a licence and needing someone else to drive, in my opinion.
But I wonder, if we had never heard that the hanger might have been a chop shop, and if TB was found in the same condition but with never an incinerator mentioned, and if SL hadn't thrown suspicion for her disappearance from his life on DM, and if his father were still alive, would such a strong majority still hold firm to the idea that he was, without a doubt, guilty? Without all the bad ties, would it be easier to wonder if he were actually innocent, if somehow, it turns out to be not coincidences, but a slight tweaking of the information in the MSM to present only the things that seem the most damning but are slightly inaccurate. Like the way the media focused on having an incinerator, only to find out that he didn't buy it. What if we found out that his father's death really was a suicide, the location of the wound exaggerated by an unnamed source, for example, or if LB turns up healthy next year, would it still smell so rotten? I would really appreciate your input on this, please.
MsSherlock
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Carli, I do respect assertions that there may be some other forces at work. IMO, sweeping publication bans, while protecting evidence and the rights of the accused, do fuel speculation and the last glimmer of hope that a fellow human being who appears to have everything couldn't possibly do something like this. IMO, as far as extreme gaming is concerned, the vast majority of people who participate certainly don't become savage murderers, however, I do believe that there's a possibility that the perfect mental storm may have been swirling around DM. MOO
swedie
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Jub, I have to be honest. If you remove all those things; LB missing, his father's death, supposed chop shop in the hangar, incinerator ect. from this case, YES I would still believe it is highly possible DM is guilty of being involved in TB's demise. Why? Because I do not believe LE rushed into making arrests without incriminating, direct evidence, especially in this day and age. I believe in cases this serious, they would want to be darn certain to catch the right perps and NOT subject an innocent person to the hollows of hell which prison can be. After all LE are human also, with hearts, brains and consciences to live with. LE want to remove serious threats from society and would want to make certain they have the correct perps. Many of them have wives, children, nieces, nephews, grandchildren ect. also, who they would not want to risk their lives, or their own life for that matter. In this day and age with the progression of technology and science as their aid, such as DNA and video surveillance, plus other evidence LE have collected, on top of witnesses, I believe LE arrested the right people. SB and BO spent a reasonable amount of time with the accused to get an accurate description (not just a glimpse) IMHO.
This may sound odd, but it is factual and many men and women do it whether they are single, married or whatever their situation may be. Say you randomly meet someone of the opposite sex somewhere/anywhere. Whether you have a brief conversation or a 10 minute conversation, you take notice quickly whether the person is attractive or not. If you find the person quite attractive, you tend to study their features more closely and their image becomes embedded in your brain. It's a form of sexual magnetism. Same can happen with an ugly person except there is no sexual reference delivered to the brain. You begin to study them and figure out what you find unappealing leaving those footprint images in the brain. Say SB found DM tall, dark and handsome. She would have a very high success rate of being able to positively ID DM days, weeks and even sometimes years later if his appearance does not change much. So with knowing this and knowing we have at least two witnesses IDing the accused, I feel confident LE arrested the right guys. HTH and MOO.
This may sound odd, but it is factual and many men and women do it whether they are single, married or whatever their situation may be. Say you randomly meet someone of the opposite sex somewhere/anywhere. Whether you have a brief conversation or a 10 minute conversation, you take notice quickly whether the person is attractive or not. If you find the person quite attractive, you tend to study their features more closely and their image becomes embedded in your brain. It's a form of sexual magnetism. Same can happen with an ugly person except there is no sexual reference delivered to the brain. You begin to study them and figure out what you find unappealing leaving those footprint images in the brain. Say SB found DM tall, dark and handsome. She would have a very high success rate of being able to positively ID DM days, weeks and even sometimes years later if his appearance does not change much. So with knowing this and knowing we have at least two witnesses IDing the accused, I feel confident LE arrested the right guys. HTH and MOO.
I hope so, too, Snoof. It was reportedly a 2007 model. I recall a friend mentioning that SB was surprised to see a baby seat in the real of his truck when she and TB went on their first date. They were married in Feb 2009 so, it seems almost equally possible that this was a used truck or a new one - given that 2007 models of vehicles are usually still available new into the following year. Also, that referenced vehicle could have been a different truck, of course. She also recently mentioned there were still payments being made on the truck. I don't know the average length of time for new truck loans, but 2007 was over 6 and a half years ago which seems quite a long time for a lender. (I could be wrong on this.) I'd think 3 years duration tops sounds more likely. If that were the case, then one could assume purchase of the used truck around say mid-2010. Probably a very long shot, but I haven't sleuthed major crimes in the area during that period. Anyway, one thing is certain about vehicle seats. The metal springs and basic infrastructure would not have burned. That seat (or seats) or parts thereof is somewhere. Where?
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Could posters please refrain from stating as fact that the "rear seats" were missing. We have only heard from an unnamed source that "seats" were missing ... with absolutely no reference to whether they were front or rear seats.
Let me clarify, Sherlock. I haven't the slightest doubt in the world that fellow human beings who appear to have everything are capable of the most heinous of crimes. History is rife with examples of exactly such acts being carried out by the most charming and upstanding citizens. However, this case differs in almost every manner and degree, imo, from the willingness of the alleged perpetrator to insure he could be easily identified to the unusual "tidiness" of the trail leading back to his participation. So far these breaks in "suspension of disbelief" have been countered with inventive solutions ranging from "thrill kill" to "accidental kill" to "serial killer". Should clear evidence come along to support any of these concepts, I'll climb onboard but so far I see nothing whatever to endorse them. But that's just MOO. IMO. As for MS, as Tony Soprano's mother said, "Him, I don't know."
Sure, sillybilly. Does this matter in some way? Given the source, it seems fair to assume (if we accept the credibility of the unnamed source because the person was quoted by MSM) that either rear or front seats or all seats were removed. MOO. Meanwhile, I guess where ever "rear seats" have been mentioned (as in my previous theory du jour) a reader could just substitute the word "seats" instead. IMHO. Hope that helps.
swedie
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There you have it Jub. Now let's remove some of the other supposed information we have no proof of. Let us say DM is an average looking guy, with a grade 12 dipolma and no post education, a regular job and living what appears to be an average lifestyle; alone in a little bungalow, he has his Dodge truck, living in a middle to low class neighbourhood. Say he has a fairly large workshop/garage on his property, has friends over often working on/ripping apart different vehicles and the garage doors are always closed from prying eyes. When he and his friends aren't working on vehicles, they are hanging out inside playing xbox/PS3. They like to have good times, partying, drinking and just may be into some drugs.
Given that scenario, would you think DM could be guilty of murdering a family man for his truck? Do you think he could set him on fire in some random field to try and destroy evidence? Could he put the stolen truck into his trailer and park it in his mother's driveway (btw they have different last names), half an hour north of his home because it may be too obvious in his own driveway, should LE come around to talk to him? Could he have murdered his girl friend because she was addicted to drugs and employed in an unsavoury position and he found her to be a nuisance? Could he possibly have shot his wealthy father to get his hands on his father's money?
I would be interested in reading your response if you don't mind sharing please and TIA. Other than stating, in a court of law an accused is innocent until proven guilty beyond a preponderance of the evidence statement, what do you think about this case scenario? :moo:
swedie
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And to add to that. The front seats are bucket seats so that would classify as two seats right there. IIRC the back seat is one seat, able to seat three people. You are correct SB, there is no report stating which seats were removed, or how many. :blowkiss:
I'm placing my bets on your number 3, swedie. Just about 100 percent, in fact, but with one small addition. That being the "now you see him, now you don't" third man who used to figure in the LE search and then was dropped. I think this person is close to DM's inner circle and has privileged access to property. I think this person is also close to the drug (or other contraband) suppliers and may also be a debtor. I believe this person was present when the murder was committed.
MsSherlock
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Carli, IMO, it is possible that LE made an assumption early on in the investigation about the need for a 3rd suspect, considering that DM and MS arrived on foot and to legitimize their lone presence at TB's house, they may have indicated to TB and SB that they had been dropped off by a friend who thought they'd run over to Timmies or the gas station and would be back to get them, while the fact was that they had actually parked their arrival vehicle-the Yukon, up the road and out of sight. If TB would have known this, the alarm bells would have gone off. IMO, when LE started to piece it all together, they realized that DM and MS were acting on their own and there was no "3rd" suspect. IMO, this would have also indicated to them that TB must have been immobilized shortly after the test drive began because TB soon realized that they had parked their arrival car out of sight and there was no friend that had dropped them off or was coming back to get them. MOO
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Yes, it is important to keep the record straight (not just in this case, but in every case) because, if we don't, over time that skewed information ends up being interpreted or accepted as fact and theories abound based on incorrect information ... and it takes off from there.
MsSherlock
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IMO Carli, overconfidence may have played a big roll. Perhaps the first test drive was a trial run-that would explain why the colour of the truck didn't matter. Maybe they realized that they certainly would have a hard time in a busy urban area in broad daylight. Perhaps they were figuring out how long it would take to immobilize a full grown man sitting in the front seat? They may have overlooked how messy these things can get, the power of a community to initiate a search so rapidly, social media/technology and a flooded tips line, providing LE with information within hours and days rather than weeks and months. In a nut shell, DM and MS's plan may have been good in theory, but failed miserably, leaving a trail right to both of their doors and not enough time for them to tidy things up. MOO
Alethea Dice
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The problem that I have with the "no 3rd suspect" is how soon the Yukon was seen on video following TB's truck. Of course we don't know where the video was, but it was reported that it was seen following "as it left the residence". If that is in fact true, they would have had to immobilize him immediately.
http://www.cp24.com/news/at-least-two-other-suspects-sought-in-bosma-murder-investigation-1.1280534
Even in this article where they talk about the first test drive...
and....
.
http://news.nationalpost.com/2013/05/14/tim-bosma-murder-leaves-police-anxious-as-hunt-for-suspects-continues/
That statement about waiting at the bottom of the driveway leads me to believe that the video was captured very close to TB's home and at about the same time that they were leaving on the test drive.
And another one...
http://www.thespec.com/news-story/2875368-it-s-murder-hamilton-police-hunting-two-other-suspects-in-bosma-killing/
IMO, that leaves three possibilities:
1. there is a third suspect that needs to be found
2. they immobilized TB by the time they got to the end of the driveway
3. it isn't really DM's Yukon following, just some random vehicle that looks coincidentally like the Yukon that just happened to be coming down the road as they pulled out on the test drive
JMO
swedie
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Why would they immobilize him immediately? The fact LE have a video of a blue Yukon on video which appears to be follow TB's truck, is great evidence IMHO to show the accused were not planning on returning to TB's house. The third vehicle could have remained at TB's house (if in fact that's where it was captured on video at his home). If there was a third suspect, IMO they have come forward to LE and have cleared themselves of any wrong doing. I myself do not believe their is a third suspect now. I believe by June 6th, they had clearer evidence it was DM's blue Yukon involved as stated by LE. :moo:
June 6th report:
Police earlier alleged the two men climbed into Bosmas 2007 Dodge Ram and were then followed by a second car Millards dark blue GMC Yukon. A third suspect was believed to be the person driving that second car.
Kavanagh now says police are not sure whether Smich, who is said to have been in the back seat of the truck while Millard was driving, exited that vehicle after leaving Bosmas home and got into the drivers seat of the Yukon.
That is possible right now, yes, but Im not going to commit either way, Kavanagh said.
If there is a third suspect, Kavanagh said, police do not have any leads on who it might be.
Millards girlfriend, whose identity is protected by a court-ordered publication ban, is not believed to be involved, the detective said.
Millards girlfriend has been cleared of that, he said.
http://www.thestar.com/news/crime/2...rd_suspect_exists_lead_investigator_says.html
That truck! What could it have been about that particular truck? Maybe this lengthy Wired Magazine (UK) article has some more clues. Everything you didn't know you didn't know about hiding stuff in "trap" compartments inside vehicles. Apparently those with the right degree of knowledge about constructing electrical systems have turned hiding contraband into a highly sophisticated enterprise. http://www.wired.co.uk/magazine/archive/2013/05/features/see-no-evil
"Trap makers responded to traffickers' complaints by tapping into the internal electrical systems of cars. They began to connect their compartments to those systems with relays, electromagnetic switches that enable low-power circuits to control higher-power circuits. (Relays are the reason, for example, that the small act of turning an ignition key can start a whole engine.) Some relays won't let current flow until several input circuits have been completed -- in other words, until several separate actions have been performed. By wiring these switches into cars, trap makers could build compartments that were operated not by aftermarket buttons, but by a car's own factory-installed controls.
"With the relay switches, you can have access to the compartment only if you do a series of events in exactly the right sequence," says Michael Lewis, the sheriff of Wicomico County, Maryland, who became a nationally recognised expert on traps during his 22-year career as a state trooper. A typical sequence will consist of pushing a variety of switches a specific number of times: a window switch three times, a door lock four times, the rear defroster twice."
(Much more at the link.)
Interesting.
"Trap makers responded to traffickers' complaints by tapping into the internal electrical systems of cars. They began to connect their compartments to those systems with relays, electromagnetic switches that enable low-power circuits to control higher-power circuits. (Relays are the reason, for example, that the small act of turning an ignition key can start a whole engine.) Some relays won't let current flow until several input circuits have been completed -- in other words, until several separate actions have been performed. By wiring these switches into cars, trap makers could build compartments that were operated not by aftermarket buttons, but by a car's own factory-installed controls.
"With the relay switches, you can have access to the compartment only if you do a series of events in exactly the right sequence," says Michael Lewis, the sheriff of Wicomico County, Maryland, who became a nationally recognised expert on traps during his 22-year career as a state trooper. A typical sequence will consist of pushing a variety of switches a specific number of times: a window switch three times, a door lock four times, the rear defroster twice."
(Much more at the link.)
Interesting.
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