George Zimmerman /Trayvon Martin General Discussion #11 Tues. July 9

[Lovelymountains]

Thank you. I heard it right. BY not AT. Interpretations will vary. As well as his decision to ask GZ why are you following me could have and IMO did happen as an out of breath GZ approached and confronted TM. Serino states to the ME examiner in the autopsy report that the resident confronted the unidentified male on pg 13 of the document.

If you believe her testimony here than you believe he said "get off, get off" as well? Yes or No?

When TM says he lost him, I believe he thought he did as the truck was not able to drive between the homes where he ran to, then stopped or walked slower, feeling safer. Part way down the dog path, GZ is back on foot! And catches up to him BY where he lives... Just 70 yards away and TM asks him why are you following me.

IMO- GZ grabs TM and says "what are you doing here", TM says "get off me, get off me" ( you believe RJ) trying to pull away. GZ pulls harder and tries some MMA or police take down and slips on the grass, hits his head, and/or face ( no DNA on TM hands) on one of the water coverings. TM and GM are pulling, pushing each other away or holding on with force, both yelling for help and attention to the altercation. The evidence ( no DNA on TM hands) doesn't support holding GZ sweaty head and slamming it nor covering a saliva and blood covered full screaming mouth. TM gets GZ to lose his grip, but GZ still has a hold of his shirt and pulled away from TM's body , sees his opportunity to pull his loaded gun and shoot so he doesn't get away. He didn't.

IMO OMO

I believe this to be the most logical scenario as to how this death happened. It fits all of the physical evidence and some of the witness testimony. As to why some witness testimony does not fit this, witness testimony is notoriously unreliable. I think that hearing something, i.e. RJ, might be easier to remember accurately than something of which you had a fleeting glance, i.e. Mr. Good's ten seconds.
IMO

 

[Isabelle]

IMO, if TM had not been at the Retreat very long, he may have been somewhat "turned around" when returning from the 7-11 or whatever, in the dark/dusk. I have been there, I have done that, I carry a black bag and I am dark skinned hispanic. I do hope that I am not targeted while trying to find a location while on foot in a large complex. There are days that I do quite a bit of wandering and looking.

ETA: and sometimes I am wandering/looking after dark!

 

[eve80]

Even though I spend HOURS reading posts here, I rarely write anything. But today I am more than convinced that prosecution lawyers are reading posts here. I say that because every time something is posted here, they mention the issue soon in court.

I'm used to defense team "throwing it out there and seing what sticks". But this is the first time that I see prosecution do it. They don't have a theory, so they keep changing theirs to whatever they think will "stick".

I'm watching now about the straddling and reaching into the pants for a gun. Here are the results of my experiment conducted with my fiancée. We both weigh 175 lbs. I'm 5'7" he is 5'5". I have rather long legs (need to buy pants in tall sizes sometimes), my fiancé has short legs (pants 29" long need to be shortened by some 3-4 inches).

When he straddled me, I had a tough time reaching into my pants because his legs barely reached around my hips and there wasn't much space left. Whe I straddled him, he had NO problem reaching into this pant waistline becaus my legs were long and there was plenty of room between my legs and his hips.

So, I believe it's all about the length of the legs. Mr. Martin was 5'11" (as far as I remember). His legs were likely on the long side. I don't see where the problem is that Mr. Zimmerman couldn't reach for his gun. All my post is my personal opinion backed up by the little "experiment" we did.

Also, I'm left handed for writing but do just about anything else with my right hand because it's the stronger one. I never thought it was weird and I surely don't do it on purpose.

I hoped for the prosecution to present a clear case. But this just reminds me of FCA's defense team. My, opinion here, of course.

 

[Truthy]

I was discussing this case with my dad last night (he is 64) and he commented that when he was a kid growing up in South Philadelphia in the 50's and 60's it was expected for an adult to question a kid who was out that late at night and what he was up to... It was even expected and the parents of that child appreciated it. Back in those days mothers and fathers would see a neighbor kid out past dark or acting shady and they would say "Get your butt home!" then maybe even call that kids parent. Nowadays you can't say anything to anyone without repercussion. IMO

What happened to respecting adults? IMO

You think Trayvon would be better off in 1950's Georgia? The "good old days" were not so good for many people...IMHO

 

[NotMyselfNEMore]

In my opinion, I believe the PA from the medical office GZ went to the next day said there was no deviation to the nose - did this witness just say there was, and someone reset it, perhaps unintentionally? I'm wondering if this is possible - my opinion only.

 

[SassyMom]

Yes I believe he had skittles. Skittles are candy, associated with the interests of little kids (cue the picture of 12 year old TM in the media) and then supposedly he was buying the skittles for his little brother. The idea was supposed to be "He was just a kid buying some candy." It made him sound sweet and innocent for obvious reasons imo.

We didn't see the tattoos, or hear about the drugs in his system, the jewel theft, the 10 day out of school suspension, the other things from his ridiculous past imo. We heard about skittles. imo.

IMO, and this isn't directly related to the case, but the more I read about the family situation of TM, the more sympathy and compassion I feel for him. I look at the pictures of the much younger TM and my heart breaks.

And no matter how much sympathy and compassion I feel for him, I cannot get behind railroading George Zimmerman in a Murder 2 trial. There is no reason to sanitize TM and there is no reason to villify GZ to get justice. The facts necessary for a Murder 2 conviction do not appear to be there. IMO

 

[DIBSY]

Happenstance?
GZ wasn't walking home
GZ wasn't walking a pet
GZ wasn't aimlessly driving around or walking around his neighborhood
GZ purposely followed, pursued, looked to investigate and confront
Facts based on 911 calls, his testimony, witnesses, autopsy report and LE

Beautifully expressed as well as factually stated. IMO Thanks stacks, Mahouston69!!

 

[Horace Finklestein]

Happenstance?
GZ wasn't walking home
GZ wasn't walking a pet
GZ wasn't aimlessly driving around or walking around his neighborhood
GZ purposely followed, pursued, looked to investigate and confront
Facts based on 911 calls, his testimony, witnesses, autopsy report and LE

Confront? How do you know? Nothing points to this imo.

 

[deelytful1]

Then you must agree that the stimulus for this event was TM walking slowly in the rain through the development, stopping and looking into houses, looking like he might be up to something, on drugs and suspicious. Stimulus invoking GZ's response to call it in and follow. IMO

LOL.. No I would NEVER agree with that because the last I checked, I live in the United States of America and I have a right to walk in the rain...
Who said he was looking into windows?
Link please?

 

[costalpilot]

Aren't these kinds of witnesses often referred to as "Hired guns?" IMO

yes and some are better than others, as in this case

state expert: GZ sustained one head injury

rest of the world: are you kidding me?????

imo

 

[Isabelle]

Yes I believe he had skittles. Skittles are candy, associated with the interests of little kids (cue the picture of 12 year old TM in the media) and then supposedly he was buying the skittles for his little brother. The idea was supposed to be "He was just a kid buying some candy." It made him sound sweet and innocent for obvious reasons imo.

We didn't see the tattoos, or hear about the drugs in his system, the jewel theft, the 10 day out of school suspension, the other things from his ridiculous past imo. We heard about skittles. imo.

Skittles were my late son's favorite candy when he was in his late teens very early twenties. I wouldn't have called him a little kid. IMO

 

[MouseTheLuckyDog]

No. Hired guns are those whose opinions are bought. Not those who are paid for the work they perform to render their own professional opinion in a particular case. That said, all of the State's professional witnesses are actually on the State's payroll, so they are equally susceptible to being characterized as hired guns, if not more so, since their entire livelihood depends on the same set of people in every case. jmo

On top of which, from what we have seen of the Ow twins "Rao and Bao ". is that they are so incompetent that should they piss off the people. asking them to testify, that should they get fired they won't find another job.

Dimao probably has a long list of people who want him to testify He gets to chose.

 

[gxm]

In my opinion, I believe the PA from the medical office GZ went to the next day said there was no deviation to the nose - did this witness just say there was, and someone reset it, perhaps unintentionally? I'm wondering if this is possible - my opinion only.

Yes. IIRC, that's what the expert witness said. That GZ's nose was originally deviated and someone probably reset it (either on purpose or unintentionally). JMO. OMO. MOO.

 

[deelytful1]

However GZ had every right to walk around his own neighborhood also.

Sometimes things just collide. I believe this was a tragic meeting of happenstance that escalated..

That was my opinion exactly..

 

[SassyMom]

You think Trayvon would be better off in 1950's Georgia? The "good old days" were not so good for many people...

Georgiagirl was not suggesting that, imo. Your response doesn't address her question about what I think comes down to teaching the young respect. Teaching your children respect used to be a given, and it was done in the majority of families, regardless of race. It was NOT unusual for an adult in your neighborhood after dark to ask why you weren't home, or what you were doing out after dark. It was a reasonable question. The lack of supervision that so many kids experience today is insane. It is not a good thing. IMO

 

[sacrablue]

Gz was in his own neighbor hood.
He did not have to have a reason to be out. He spotted something that looked odd and called NEN.

Nothing out of order there. Nothing..

He watched TM to see where he was going while on the phone with police dispatch. He was waiting for police to arrive.
TM's friends testimony had him at his residence and then back out to where GZ was waiting for police and he confronted GZ and then they fought.

So yes. It was a collision of people and it turned out bad. I don't believe there was any malice on GZ's part to hurt TM.

But 'they' always get away. All he was doing was waiting for police? Try waiting in the truck next time GZ since you seem to have problems beyond that. IMO

 

[sorrell skye]

Prosecutor just got defense expert to admit that Trayvon could have been backing up from the gun when he was shot.

I missed that part when I stepped out of the room.

If TM was possibly backing up (while the screams for help were still being heard in the 911 recording), then, IMO, it's possible that GZ may not have needed to shoot TM to defend himself.

While it's possible that this scenario may have occurred, unless there is evidence to support it, IMO, the reasonable doubt still goes to GZ (in my mind).

 

[William N]

yes and some are better than others, as in this case

state expert: GZ sustained one head injury

rest of the world: are you kidding me?????

imo

In this case, IMO Dr. Di Maio has the facts on his side.

 

[georgiagirl]

You think Trayvon would be better off in 1950's Georgia? The "good old days" were not so good for many people...IMHO

Touche. Who really knows how he would have faired as a black kid in the south in those days. That wasn't really my point. I just think that people looked out for each other more then and kids were raised to trust and respect the adults.IMO

 

[ScarlettScarpetta]

But 'they' always get away. All he was doing was waiting for police? Try waiting in the truck next time GZ since you seem to have problems beyond that. IMO

HE did not have to wait in the truck. There is no legal reason he had to wait anywhere. He did nothing illegal in his actions that night.

HE called NEN. He knows they are coming.. TM ventures from the safety of his house back out to look for GZ as per RJ, the state witness.

They met when TM confronted GZ. Not before that.