Hannah Graham: The Search - #4

[MJPeony]

Wow, excellent connecting there! I didn't know about him possibly having beef with Mr. Bass. I tend to think he knew that area MH was found, having grown up around there. If your theory proves true, JM is a LOT more calculating than I ever thought! Now I have to think about all I've read about him and the problems he's had with people or places, and try to connect any dots for a possible location for HG. That's very interesting....

I'll go try to drum up a link to the Bass property dispute and when it was mentioned... will be back if I can find it. Someone else may find it more easily.

 

[SteveP]

Another thought I had when I heard LE is asking people to be on the lookout for JM's clothing and Crocs. As comfortable as Crocs are on floors and flat areas, I cannot imagine that they would be the shoes you would wear to go traipsing through rough terrain while carrying or dragging a 160 pound person. Unless he had another pair of shoes in his car that he changed into that night, and assuming that he disposed of Hannah that same night, then if he was still wearing Crocs, we may be able to eliminate some areas just based on how hard it would be to walk in those areas with them on. So maybe she was left in a relatively flat and open area like a field, not unlike Morgan. I Know, grasping at straws here, but just a thought.

 

[CatchingClues]

I agree, there are aspects of discussing where to look for his clothing that are relevant to the search - I'm just on pins and needles about this thread being shut down permanently.

Self-moderating isn't moderating only yourself when there is a team effort involved and one person on that team can have the entire thread shut down for good. Bessie's warned us all. Sorry that my attempts at helping seem more of a hindrance.

ETA: I'm guilty as well. I've had posts deleted.

FWIW: His clothing could have a piece of evidence such as grass, seed(s), dirt, briars that tore, etc., that could possibly lead to an area where she is. His shoes, of course, could match up to foot prints that they may already have. So, I do think it pertains to the search for Hannah. If his clothes weren't important, then LE wouldn't be looking for them. JMHO

 

[bessie]

<rsbm>

ETA: In order to keep it on topic- I am relating it to searching for his clothes as a way to think about where he may have gone, how he disposed of them as it pertains to where he may have put Hannah I will focus on Search topic now going forward!

Thank you.

 

[mainemom]

Another thought I had when I heard LE is asking people to be on the lookout for JM's clothing and Crocs. As comfortable as Crocs are on floors and flat areas, I cannot imagine that they would be the shoes you would wear to go traipsing through rough terrain while carrying or dragging a 160 pound person. Unless he had another pair of shoes in his car that he changed into that night, and assuming that he disposed of Hannah that same night, then if he was still wearing Crocs, we may be able to eliminate some areas just based on how hard it would be to walk in those areas with them on. So maybe she was left in a relatively flat and open area like a field, not unlike Morgan. I Know, grasping at straws here, but just a thought.

I think this is true, Steve. Crocs are definitely not something to wear in slippery or rough terrain. I have a pair I wear out to the chicken coop and they are pretty treacherous sometimes.

(... and to be sure we're on topic, this relates to the "search" because it might be a clue to narrowing the search parameters if it was assumed he was wearing the crocs...)

 

[MJPeony]

Nope, I unfortunately can't find a legitimate link... the link I remembered was/is on another sleuthing site from years ago when I was following it. In any case, I think Covenant School could be a logical place to look carefully at as it relates to football, schooling, etc. And it's possible as we've discussed that he had resentment around those 2 things.

 

[themom]

Another thought I had when I heard LE is asking people to be on the lookout for JM's clothing and Crocs. As comfortable as Crocs are on floors and flat areas, I cannot imagine that they would be the shoes you would wear to go traipsing through rough terrain while carrying or dragging a 160 pound person. Unless he had another pair of shoes in his car that he changed into that night, and assuming that he disposed of Hannah that same night, then if he was still wearing Crocs, we may be able to eliminate some areas just based on how hard it would be to walk in those areas with them on. So maybe she was left in a relatively flat and open area like a field, not unlike Morgan. I Know, grasping at straws here, but just a thought.

Did LE ask for the searchers to look for Crocs? Could they have seized them from his apartment, already?

 

[whiskers]

I'd wondered if anyone on this board and helping with the searches saw anything in their dreams. (I'm not a psychic in any way, but sometimes little puzzles come to me in my sleep.) When I typed it earlier, I'd wondered about the area between Iron Gate and Clifton Forge. Had no idea Rainbow Gap existed. I do sincerely feel LE needs to cast the net wider with searches. I think FoxFire mentioned that this evening. Past the mark where MH was found. Thank you for your input. I've always felt this search needs to be more than simply 8 miles.

A dimly remembered dream from a week or so ago ended with someone in the dream telling me "We found her she's behind the rainbow" or maybe "beside the rainbow".

When I looked up the directions from Iron Gate to Clifton Forge just now, about halfway between the two is something labeled "Rainbow Gap"

 

[FindHG]

Thank you for your reply.

I would be curious as to what her friends said as to why she left the party. I just can't imagine a young woman saying "hey I am having a great time with you all, but I need to go run down to McGradys". Then imagine her friends saying "ok see you later". It just doesn't make sense. Then you can take it one step further and she texts her friends " i am lost". But apparently no one replied? Or perhaps we just don't know if they did or not. LE has been very open with the media with facts, videos and timelines etc. so why has this information not been reported?

Just trying to help.

I was curious about that very thing too about a month ago. I'm assuming all the friends are cooperating with LE. I think I would be safe to assume that they do care about the suspect being prosecuted, thus they haven't said much publicly, besides how much this hurts them and attested to her great nature.

Apparently, she had only resided in her new off-campus housing since this fall semester began (2 weeks), according to press reports. She was not very familiar with the areas off-campus. The assumption made widely, as mentioned in the LE press conferences as well, was that she was lost on her way to join her friends at a gathering, and may have taken a wrong turn. As an example of her state of mind, the area she is seen running through has been described as kind of seedy, especially under the bridge. There you see her running in blur, fast. So she has the presence of mind to skedaddle through there as opposed to what you see in her brisk determined pace elsewhere.

In those first press conferences, it was reported she had stayed in touch with her friends with numerous texts, it was just the last one saying she is a place it was impossible for her to be at the time that is odd. This last odd text coincides with the time the suspect had reached Tempo with her and after he had purchased the beer, 1:20 a.m, Her IPhone then goes dead. This was information that was widely available even before they had suspect, when the videos were first released. Hope this helps.

 

[SteveP]

Did LE ask for the searchers to look for Crocs? Could they have seized them from his apartment, already?

Somewhere earlier in this thread, in today's briefing, Chief Longo specifically mentioned JM's checkered shirt, cargo pants and Crocs, as well as Hannah's clothing as items they are still searching for.

 

[oxenrider1966]

Has anyone thought about starting a fund for the search members I heard that most of them are not getting paid and they are working on their off time and I did see today that a few resturants were sending some food to them just thought I would put that out there.

 

[teeandcee]

It's sad to see that stories fade after the news cycle and time-limit of interest of the general public.

As for why the search is not including motels, houses, and other indoor areas, I think LE uses historical information (i.e Longo stated the 8 mile radius is based on such) to direct and guide them. And very sadly, I think most data points in this case indicate it is search and recover and not rescue.

A body would be noticeably odoriferous inside a building as well unless the OP was referring to abandoned buildings, and even then I think neighbors or passersby would notice the smell unless the building was extremely isolated.

 

[whiskers]

It's never happened to me either. It's the dumpster going from Lexington to Buena Vista. Right before Ben Salem Wayside. (Rockbridge Riviera as I call it.) I wish the search had capabilities further than 8 miles. Cadaver dogs in this area could help with search. Especially if he was seen in Craigsville.

Thinking about it later, I thought local LE is probably trying to help as much as they can. (Although this was not a local sheriff or police.) And I have seen more unmarked LE in this area lately. But maybe it has to do with something else such as drug enforcement and not the search. I really wish during this search they could pinpoint (via phone pings) if he really was in Craigsville area.

Wow, whiskers! What dumpster area? I have never had that happen either, not even at the big recycling center by the high school.
IMO, this is all very suspicious. The sheriff and a few detectives from the county live on my road. Maybe I should actually attend the next barn party and interrogate them. I have never seen such secrecy that is surrounding this investigation.
IMO, this is all very suspicious.

 

[SouthernSleuther]

Regarding items taken, I'm surprised clothing topped the list. I would have thought jewelry simply because it's easier to conceal. However, when I think about it clothing makes sense as it probably smells like the victim. Yuck.

The fact that clothing and shoes are listed as the highest percentage here is telling, IMO, that Hannah's shoes are not included in the latest listing of what LE is asking people to look for. Especially considering earlier reports of JM trying to remove women's shoes in the bar. This is key, I feel.

 

[CatchingClues]

since I feel he is the perp, but I never heard of MH until now, those of you that followed MH, do you feel that people knew something about MH?

To me, nothing has come out in terms of "a ha", with him except maybe for the cab drivers and friends thinking he looks like the sketch.

Maybe with HG, people who know him will think of something that is relevant beause they are believers now.

Was Hannah wearing any jewelry?

 

[jamicat]

New poster here...I'm wondering if any landowners might have been unwilling to submit to a search of their property without a warrant. Is it possible that some landowners might have moonshine stills hidden in the woods that they wouldn't want LE to stumble upon? Could JM have known about such a location and purposefully placed Hannah there knowing the landowner would block any search attempts by LE?

Also, might a landowner have prohibited a search on the outside chance that his property might have pot being grown on it by an outside party? Suppose a landowner had been burned by such activity in the past, perhaps he would want to avoid that hassle again despite wanting to help with Hannah? If JM knew of such a previous case, perhaps he might target that property as a dump site?

LE isn't allowed to go onto private property without permission from the owners or without a warrent or a pressing reason to go on it. So a lot of private property is likely going on searched. LE has also asked owners of property to please search it, but frankly without the dogs, I don't see how a thorough search can be done on that type of terrain. Mr. Bass flat out state that he could not search all of his property in a way that would have found MH--sheerly by accident she was spotted, and he says that it's the case fo a number of such properties.

The thing is, there are a lot of properties out there that are private with absentee and/or unaware owners. IMO, searchers should just let the dogs riiiiip and run on such properties if the owners can't be reached, and it looks promising, especially with the new info LE might have in the way of pings from JM's cell phone. Otherwise there is a huge gap in the area LE says "every inch had been searched". Often in cases as serious as this, LE will make it clear to anyone who has some illegal activity (moonshineres) that they will cast a blind eye to such things, though how much those breaking the law that way will believe them. My guess is that outside of those who are indulging in that sort of thing, private land owners will gladly allow LE and the dogs to search. Who the heck wants a cadaver on their grounds?

 

[ksj3]

It's never happened to me either. It's the dumpster going from Lexington to Buena Vista. Right before Ben Salem Wayside. (Rockbridge Riviera as I call it.) I wish the search had capabilities further than 8 miles. Cadaver dogs in this area could help with search. Especially if he was seen in Craigsville.

Thinking about it later, I thought local LE is probably trying to help as much as they can. (Although this was not a local sheriff or police.) And I have seen more unmarked LE in this area lately. But maybe it has to do with something else such as drug enforcement and not the search. I really wish during this search they could pinpoint (via phone pings) if he really was in Craigsville area.

I'd say, in that case, the search has extended beyond the 8 miles, which we've known based upon Appalachiagirl's posts earlier. I think they're just being very tight lipped about where they're searching, for whatever reason. Beyond Lexington, eh? Wow. That's quite the radius to be working with. And likely why they're not stopping.

 

[Justice101]

I'd wondered if anyone on this board and helping with the searches saw anything in their dreams. (I'm not a psychic in any way, but sometimes little puzzles come to me in my sleep.) When I typed it earlier, I'd wondered about the area between Iron Gate and Clifton Forge. Had no idea Rainbow Gap existed. I do sincerely feel LE needs to cast the net wider with searches. I think FoxFire mentioned that this evening. Past the mark where MH was found. Thank you for your input. I've always felt this search needs to be more than simply 8 miles.

It's funny you should mention this. Last night, I dreamed that I was the one that found Hannah... at an old fishing spot along the banks for the James River near Natural Bridge Station, VA. Very weird dream... I call LE and then I was detained for (what seemed like hours) while they combed the scene and took my fishing wader boots, etc. to erase my presence from the crime scene. I cannot even begin to describe what Hannah looked like.

 

[ksj3]

The thing is, there are a lot of properties out there that are private with absentee and/or unaware owners. IMO, searchers should just let the dogs riiiiip and run on such properties if the owners can't be reached, and it looks promising, especially with the new info LE might have in the way of pings from JM's cell phone.

That's actually a very interesting thought.

In Virginia, hunters can trespass on posted property to retrieve their hunting dogs. Wonder if that would be true for SAR dogs?

 

[jamicat]

The fact that clothing and shoes are listed as the highest percentage here is telling, IMO, that Hannah's shoes are not included in the latest listing of what LE is asking people to look for. Especially considering earlier reports of JM trying to remove women's shoes in the bar. This is key, I feel.

Maybe they have her shoes. She might have left them in the car. That would be some great evidence that she did not go off elsewhere on her own, though there have been barefoot walkers.

From what I could gather, from a blogger who did go on a search, there are all sorts of things those who are searching are seeking. Clothing and things that clearly do not fit any description of JM's and Hannahs things are also picked up during these searches for LE to examine.