Huntington Contacted on Dec. 11/Will TH Ever Testify Again **Merged**

[Studio_Medic]

Referencing Dr Huntington's testimony regarding decomposition stains, there were no "comparable" decomposition stains in the trunk, and tests done by the State say they found none... only one hair of "questionable origin".

There were small identified stains, but nothing significant in the trunk. From the photos shown and my own practical experience, it suggests to me that if decomposition reached the level in the trunk the State suggests, there would be a very large amount of evidence to support the finding... and that evidence does not exist.

The main thing I took away from Huntington's testimony , is that the maggots flee the decomposing body and hide in tight, confined spaces... such as under the trunk liner... and there were none there.

That leaves me two potential conclusions to draw. a) Caylee didn't decompose in the trunk or b) Casey had a lot of help, and therefore there are a lot of suspects that still have to answer some questions.

Exactly! I have been saying all along that there is no way that a body was in the trunk.

First: Adiopocere only develops in cold, moist and oxygen deprived environments( such as being buried in lake or mud filled environment)...I don't think a trunk in July constitutes a oxygen deprived cold environment. Plus all the "fatty acids found on the towels and in the trunk can be found in other items also) and the chemical compounds that Dr. Vass attributed to human decomposition.

2-Butanone- is used in cleaning agents
2-Methyl-Furan-is usually found in plant material and not human decomposition
Methyl-Acetate- is found in nail polish remover
Acetone-is found in nail polish remover
Butyrate-a fatty acid (Dr. Vass states it was discharge from the body) however Butyrate is also found in butter and Parmesan cheese. Example when butter goes rancid it releases Butyrate. Remember there was garbage in the trunk of the car.
Carbon Disulfide-is a compound of carbon and sulfur which when in its pure form smells like CHLOROFORM. Its primary use is in cellophane or Rayon.
Carbon Tetrachloride- is form by combining Carbon Disulfide with chlorine. It is also known as Halon or as Freon.
Chloroethane-used in gas tanks as an “anti-knock” addictive.
Chloroform-is a simple solution that can be made from combining Acetone, Chlorine bleach, ethanol and ice! Interesting tidbit: Chloroform once appeared in toothpastes, cough syrups, ointments, and other pharmaceuticals, but it has been banned as a consumer product in the US since 1976. Cough syrups containing Chloroform can still be legally purchased in pharmacies and supermarkets in the UK.

Second: Chloroform can be formed by the mixture of Acetone with other chemicals, bleach etc....

Third: I have never seen a stain in the trunk liner, I guess it is all based on perception. But LongTime you know just as well as I do when a body decomposes if a stain forms on ( wood, carpet, mattress) you CANNOT get it out nor can you get rid of the smell, I don't care how much Febreeze you use.

One death I responded to > 2 weeks in a house no AC in the middle of the summer here in Florida was so bad that the body actually stained the terrazzo floor. Oh and there were thousands of maggots and flies. The smell was so bad that it permeated my hair, clothes everything.....My partner and I had to throw our clothes away as soon as we got back to our station. It wasn't a pretty scene.Three days later I could still smell the "decomp" in my hair. That's why I can't believe that the body decomposed in the trunk.

But this is JMO:seeya:

 

[TigerBalm]

I did not think the witness was "tore up" - though the prosecutor did do a good job. But I think the defense got what they needed out of the guy. Although it was clear they wanted much more.

Can you refresh my memory to what Huntington said that helped the defense? Thanks.

 

[DeadCat]

others are walking free that should be in jail as well.

So, what is your theory? Are you believing it all happened as the defense says or do you think there's more to it than that?

 

[Cassata11]

:croc: (This is what JA did to TH today).

Very smart guy, used by the DT in the worst possible way, shut completely down by the veteran JA. A little smug and extremely long-winded, especially when questioned about areas he was incorrect and/or challenged.

IMHO, he should stick to the minor league until he's got a bit more experience, especially in a death penalty murder case, until he's ready to play with the big guys.

Every professional has to "cut their teeth" so to speak, but this was not the case to do it.

I hope he does not "reappear" in this case at all...for "his" sake!

Used by the Jose Baez and DT says it all. You can tell he was told he was "brought in" for one thing, and wasn't at ALL prepared for cross. I didn't feel sorry for him, because he should have done his homework.

At this point, I doubt he will "ever" allow himself to be anyone's patsy again.

 

[BritsKate]

Just putting together what has actually been testified to...

1. There was chloroform found in the trunk. (Vass and FBI chemist)
2. No tests have been conducted to find out what effect a large volume of chloroform would have on early colonization insects. (Huntington)
3. There were gas cans stored in Casey's trunk. (GA)
4. Presumably because no test has been performed on what effect a large volume of chloroform would have on decompositional insect activity no test has been performed to show the effect of chloroform and gas. (just me )
5. The trunk was opened several times. (Simon Barker, CA, GA)
6. The trash bag was removed from the trunk and thrown into the tow yard dumpster. (Simon Barker and GA)
7. Huntington attempted to compare his study to this case - however climate and conditions are so different I am not certain any conclusions can be drawn. Certainly not for me.
8. Casey had access to the vehicle at the time of complaining of the smell to Amy.
9. CA admitted to cleaning the vehicle.
10. It is NOT known how airtight the trunk was. (I think Vass and perhaps Haskell both testified to this? Maybe? Huntington was never asked if the vehicle he conducted his experiment in was similar in either make or model to Casey's. If he was I missed it.)

At the end of the day what it boils down for me is this: a body did decompose in the back of that car and all the factors involved - gas, clean up, chloroform, removal of the body, airing of the trunk, tampering with evidence all adds up to there being less insect activity than 'normal' in early stages of decomp. JMHO from an admittedly non-scientific mind.

 

[Cubby]

Used by the Jose Baez and DT says it all. You can tell he was told he was "brought in" for one thing, and wasn't at ALL prepared for cross. I didn't feel sorry for him, because he should have done his homework.

At this point, I doubt he will "ever" allow himself to be anyone's patsy again.

I agree. I'll add again to the thought he was 'used' by the DT. This was a learning experience for him, getting his feet wet so to speak. I'm sure he'll bounce back and will NOT be put in this position again.

jmo

 

[uklaw]

They typically are... especially in missing body cases were a "person of interest" has been charged and is in jail, and has a DT. If there was a motion, I haven't looked yet, so I wouldn't know.

Are we sure?

WFTV legal analyst William Sheaffer called the motions "ludicrous." Sheaffer said it was unheard of for a defense team to ask to be part of a murder investigation. He also pointed out that the request for a second autopsy was a moot point because either Casey Anthony, or her parents, George and Cindy, would have the right to have that done once the remains are turned over to them, if the remains do indeed belong to missing 2-year-old Caylee Anthony.

http://www.wftv.com/news/18288396/detail.html#-

I will put it over to the Attorneys thread.

 

[spyhouston]

I'm wondering where his name fell on LKB's list of people she called that day...uh 15th maybe?

 

[TigerBalm]

Come on now, of course he will, he is obviously an expert in many fields.
I'm sure he is even smarter then a fifth grader!

:floorlaugh:

 

[mombomb]

I voted Yes - he will definitely testify as an expert again. I think he did a fine job with what he had to work with. He is very accomplished for his age and I predict he has a long, successful career ahead of him. He will learn a lot from this case. He really held up surprisingly well to JA's brutal cross examination. I don't feel he lied or acted unethically as some have said.

 

[tasylshari]

Absolutely! He will testify, and be paid a tremendous amount of money to do just this, for the rest of his life!!!! Absolutely!

He's famous now - - - whenever a DT needs an expert witness that goes on and on and on and on (like The Song That Never Ends) to avoid answering what has already been discovered they aren't gonna call Ghostbusters - - - they're gonna call The Young Doctor. Absolutely!

OMgosh I'm so glad that today is done. That was painful!

 

[Dignity4Victims]

how much was he paid to lie?.

.oh..im sorry

to tell MISTRUTHS!

That's the thing, this guy isn't educationally stupid at all, his credentials speak highly for his knowledge.

He was intentionally dishonest, until that is, the brilliant Mr. Jeff Ashton :heartbeat: brought him back to 'reality'.

 

[LongtimeMedic]

So, what is your theory? Are you believing it all happened as the defense says or do you think there's more to it than that?

I'm not ruling it out entirely... but I'm won't say it's not possible. I do, however, feel there just has to be more than just Casey involved, and if that's the case, just finding Casey Guilty and sentencing her to death isn't really Justice For Caylee at all. If there are others (and I say absolutely there are) then they must be brought to justice as well.

This whole thing doesn't even start to pass my sniff test. I think Cindy was the last of the Anthony family to learn what happened, and they couldn't control her, and she called 911. I'd bet my left shoe that if she had the opportunity to do it again, she wouldn't have called.

I feel the root of the whole problem that resulted in Caylee's death, was a totally dysfunctional Anthony family and friends.

 

[Leila]

Just how significant is this information that Huntington was contacted as an expert witness before Caylee's remains were found?

I think this is major! Remains of a small child were found on Dec. 11, 2008, but it was a few weeks later before Dr. Garavaglia identified those remains as the remains of Caylee Anthony.

The fact that Dr. Huntington was contacted on Dec. 11th, long before the identification was made is extremely significant!

Dr. Huntington was not contacted when bones were found by a diver during the river search done by Leonard Padilla. There were several days before those bones were identified as animal bones. But, why didn't JB contact Dr. Huntington then.........JB didn't know those weren't Caylee's bones, unless KC told him......"that's not where I left her."

 

[Icky Etardo]

Forensic entomologists have to be able to testify in a court of law in order to practice their professions, so yes, he will testify again someday.

However, I doubt he'll ever express an opinion that isn't written in his final report again.
:floorlaugh:

It was a rookie mistake, and I hope he's learned his lesson.

 

[LongtimeMedic]

Are we sure?


I will put it over to the Attorneys thread.

Yeah, I looked more into it myself, and they do usually allow them in after LE has finished, however, I do believe that defense pathologists at an autopsy are commonplace. Thanks for the pointers!!

Medic

 

[PaperTigers]

I felt bad for him, but I thought he handled himself quite well given how humiliating the experience must have been. Unless I am wrong, the role of the expert witnesses is not to take sides, regardless of whether they were provided by the state or the defense. They are to offer their objective opinions and if their testimony helps one side more than the other then that's how it is.

I wonder how old he is. He doesn't seem much older than Casey herself. Probably not even in his 30's yet.

 

[nssherlock]

I was not as concerned about his lack of experience as I was about his willingness to bend the truth. I believe he'll testify as an expert again but he'll never have the stellar reputation of Dr Haskell or Dr Vass.

 

[chicklet]

Just wondering what everyone thinks about Dr. Tim Huntington and whether he'll ever testify again after he was torn apart on the stand by Jeffery Ashton?

I think Ashton came across really badly while Huntington was on the stand. In fact, it was incredibly irritating the way he constantly interrupted, was so disrespectful and basically personally attacked the witness. I think he came across so unprofessional, petty and immature. He deserved being spoken to by the judge.

 

[PaperTigers]

Someone posted in the trial thread, can't remember who.
150 an hour for downtime (travel, hanging around, etc)

500 an hour for testimony.
He put in a lot of hours.

I think I have this right, please correct me if wrong, going from memory.
IMO

I thought this was what Dr Haskell was being paid. Does how qualified/number of years of experience in their field contribute to how much an expert witness is paid?