IA IA - Elizabeth Collins, 8, & Lyric Cook, 10, Evansdale, 13 July 2012 - #28

[JaimeInLA]

I think what she's saying is she doesn't necessarily agree or disagree with anything anyone is saying about Dan, but instead of bashing him on this website - simply pray that WHOMEVER is responsible for the girls murder be found, let the courts/LE see what is needed to be seen (again, that God lead them to the truth) and justice served via their sentence.

That's how I read it. I don't think she's giving any indication that she thinks Dan is responsible for their murder. JMO of course.

I think her main message is to hand it all over to God and let HIM be the judge and jury. Everyone else just needs to pray for justice and not judge.

Ok, thanks for translating Jesus Speak for me. That makes sense. I'm just not that person. I take personal responsibility for every choice I make and I plan and make goals to work towards. I would NEVER just "turn it over to god." I would be out pounding the pavement, calling the police every day, and in the face of anyone I thought could have murdered my daughter. Her attitude is infuriating to me. But I know it is endearing to some. To each her own, I guess.

 

[tlcya]

Time for me to step on to another thread. I have a feeling this one will be getting into the same old same old.

We have all been here for months upon months. We all pretty much know where one another land on the issue being danced round that is not within TOS to discuss openly.

:moo: continuing thus can only result in more :banghead: :furious: and :drama:

I shall leave it to others to reopen that :worms: and commence :deadhorse:

 

[song22]

I believe you can turn it over to God in the big sense and yet absolutely be out pounding the pavement at the same time.

 

[song22]

Is cremation consistent with Heather's religious beliefs?

I just did a quick google search of Vineyard church and cremation and they do seem compatible.

My whole family is evangelical, conservative and fundamentalist Christian and cremation is perfectly acceptable.

 

[Bootsctr]

Has the coroner/LE released the girls' bodies yet? I missed that update if the bodies were released.

 

[otto]

I just did a quick google search of Vineyard church and cremation and they do seem compatible.

My whole family is evangelical, conservative and fundamentalist Christian and cremation is perfectly acceptable.

I just searched it too ... and I read that cremation is not consistent with traditional Christian beliefs primarily because of the concept of resurrection.

The children's remains were released to the families after all required tests were completed, so cremation versus burial makes no difference to the investigation.

 

[threecrazykids]

Do people actually think that Dan was involved in the murders ... even though police have said that he is not a suspect?

I can't speak to what people actually think, but given the fact that 99% of the media reports on this crime focus on this family and the drug connection, it's very easy for people to be led to believe this family is somehow responsible for their abduction and consequently their murder. I mean how many articles have we read about where they posted information about this crime that did NOT mention the background of Dan and Misty? Few and far between if you ask me. The media has definitely put the focus on them.

I do think it's safe to say that there are people on this board that are certain there is a connection. However, I think it's also safe to say there are people who believe this family is NOT connected and that the "real" perps are having a HAYDAY watching all the focus (in the media anyway) stay right there on the family. Sad really.

There are STILL "attempted abductions" happening almost weekly in the Cedar Rapids area...and that is just a short 45 min drive from Waterloo/Evansdale.

I'm certainly not letting MY guard down just because Dan was arrested when it comes to my children...especially my 10 year old daughter...I can say that with 100% certainty.

 

[palaminodee]

Did I miss something? I never heard the bodies were released from the ME, please correct me on this one? I thought the actual burial and cremation were TBD.

 

[Marilynilpa]

I just searched it too ... and I read that cremation is not consistent with traditional Christian beliefs primarily because of the concept of resurrection.

The children's remains were released to the families after all required tests were completed, so cremation versus burial makes no difference to the investigation.

My "traditional Christian beliefs" did not prevent me from having my husband's remains cremated. JMO

 

[song22]

I just searched it too ... and I read that cremation is not consistent with traditional Christian beliefs primarily because of the concept of resurrection.

The children's remains were released to the families after all required tests were completed, so cremation versus burial makes no difference to the investigation.

Oh No! Theological debate! This used to be always true and still is for some (ie. I have many conservative Mennonite friends who do not cremate) But most evangelical churches nowadays have no problem with it. Vineyard combines a lot of secular, worldly cultural stuff with evangelical theology. Cremation is no longer a big deal with the vast majority of evangelicals. They would say God is mighty enough to resurrect ashes. (In the ancient church though, it was associated with paganism).

I only took note of the way Heather said it--that it would be destroying evidence. That was just odd to me. I'm not arguing for or against Dan as a suspect. As you said, police have said he is not a suspect. I'm just noticing some of the things Heather is saying.

 

[eileenhawkeye]

Ok, thanks for translating Jesus Speak for me. That makes sense. I'm just not that person. I take personal responsibility for every choice I make and I plan and make goals to work towards. I would NEVER just "turn it over to god." I would be out pounding the pavement, calling the police every day, and in the face of anyone I thought could have murdered my daughter. Her attitude is infuriating to me. But I know it is endearing to some. To each her own, I guess.

I find it sad. I wonder if she thinks it was God's plan to have Elizabeth and Lyric brutally murdered.

 

[otto]

Oh No! Theological debate! This used to be always true and still is for some (ie. I have many conservative Mennonite friends who do not cremate) But most evangelical churches nowadays have no problem with it. Vineyard combines a lot of secular, worldly cultural stuff with evangelical theology. Cremation is no longer a big deal with the vast majority of evangelicals. They would say God is mighty enough to resurrect ashes. (In the ancient church though, it was associated with paganism).

I only took note of the way Heather said it--that it would be destroying evidence. That was just odd to me. I'm not arguing for or against Dan as a suspect. As you said, police have said he is not a suspect. I'm just noticing some of the things Heather is saying.

Is Heather thinking that police made mistakes during evidence collection and therefore the remains should not be cremated?

 

[song22]

Is Heather thinking that police made mistakes during evidence collection and therefore the remains should not be cremated?

I don't know. I think the idea is that if sometime in the future they needed to look at the bodies again, they would not be able to. I guess that does happen sometime. But I'm totally confused about whether the bodies have even been released or not. Was Lyric cremated or are they just planning on it? I think it's the latter, but it's not totally clear.

I keep forgetting to say JMO! I don't mean to neglect it or sound arrogant. I just get excited and hit "submit!"

 

[otto]

I don't know. I think the idea is that if sometime in the future they needed to look at the bodies again, they would not be able to. I guess that does happen sometime. But I'm totally confused about whether the bodies have even been released or not. Was Lyric cremated or are they just planning on it? I think it's the latter, but it's not totally clear.

I keep forgetting to say JMO! I don't mean to neglect it or sound arrogant. I just get excited and hit "submit!"

The remains were discovered on December 5, so I would hope that they've been released, but we haven't heard of a funeral associated with a burial, so perhaps the remains are still in the custody of the medical examiner.

It sounds like there are still some raw feelings between the sisters.

 

[eileenhawkeye]

I find it very off that it's been two months since the girls' bodies were found, and they haven't been released. There are murders all the time, even ones that go unsolved, and I can't think of any one the bodies were held for that long.

I'm not sure if this a good comparison...but in the Ramsey case, John claims that LE was refusing to release JonBenet's body to them until they agreed to be interrogated. Well, him and Patsy both complained, citing religious reasons, and thus, JonBenet's body was released to the family.

 

[alliemay]

I believe you can turn it over to God in the big sense and yet absolutely be out pounding the pavement at the same time.

I agree with you. We don't really know what they are doing after the camera's and microphones are turned off, we don't know what is going on behind the scenes.

I would want to take matters into my own hands. But then I would probably be arrested and put into jail. Or, I would want to jump off a bridge and end the pain. Neither of these is really an option. Leaving it in God's hands may be just one way of helping her keep her composure and sanity.

 

[superbee]

I didn't see a response to my forever ago question about what is one of the girls carrying on her handle bars? If anything.

It is so blurry to my old eyes, but it looked to me like something black tied or wrapped around the handle bars.

 

[JaimeInLA]

If the bodies haven't been released, perhaps it is because LE doesn't want the COD to get leaked. If it is something super obvious like a gunshot to the skull -- they don't want a mortician selling that story to the press. That is pure speculation.

 

[Bootsctr]

It is so blurry to my old eyes, but it looked to me like something black tied or wrapped around the handle bars.

I could not tell if it was anything or not either. It looked to me like Elizabeth was in the lead, but wouldn't testify to it.

 

[Bootsctr]

If the bodies haven't been released, perhaps it is because LE doesn't want the COD to get leaked. If it is something super obvious like a gunshot to the skull -- they don't want a mortician selling that story to the press. That is pure speculation.

I think that is why the bodies have not been released either - cause of death is "super obvious like a gunshot to the skull." I keep thinking that information could easily have been leaked by the hunters depending on how well they saw the bodies. Of course, I speculate they would have run like the wind away once they realized they had stumbled across the girls' remains.