Found Deceased IA - Mollie Tibbetts, 20, Poweshiek County, 19 Jul 2018 #30

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MassGuy said:
Exactly. Privacy is obviously a major concern. Sites like Ancestry and 23 and me, don’t generally allow their databases to be used by LE. Golden State and several other cases have been solved by using a public database, where users upload their own DNA that has been downloaded from other DNA testing sites (like Ancestry). What LE has done, is uploaded suspect DNA to this open site, and used geneology to solve cases.

This particular site, GedMatch, makes it clear that your DNA can be used by other parties. The issue is, particular individuals have no control over what members of their families contribute, hence the privacy concerns, as you have no say in your own privacy when your DNA is out there, courtesy of someone related to you.

When you’re taking a killer off the streets, I think this is a small price to pay. The danger however, is a slippery slope.
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I agree, if you are helping catch a killer, I'm not really fixated on the rights of a second or third cousin I've never heard of.

The thing about DNA testing is that no one sees your DNA or can make any health-related decisions about it. Now, if insurance companies could subponea your DNA, and actually comb through it, then maybe. However, your entire DNA (or genome, I think it may be called) is not tested, but certain locations (and each company tests different ones). Each tester is given a list of "matches" or cousins -- just their names or nicknames -- along with a predicted relationship -- 2nd to 4th cousin, fifth to remote cousin, etc.

HOWEVER, the predictions don't mean much. DNA is wild and each person can get more DNA from one side of the family than the other. My sister and I tested and it's very interesting each matches the most.

You MUST work DNA tests. You are not just handed your family tree. You have to work your matches' trees in order to determine even which side of the family your match is on. For lots of people that is very difficult to do.

SHEW, you got me started! Didn't mean to go into that, but DNA has helped me with relationships there is no documentation for and mainly confirmed the family tree I've been building for years.

It's just another possible tool for LE. Like fingerprinting was when it was first discovered.
 
Alethea said:
LE can lie to a suspect but it's going to come up at trial and a good defense lawyer would paint it as entrapment and inept police work. There's always a balancing act for LE and prosecutors: you want to catch your perpetrator but you don't want to have him walk free because your evidence is inadmissible due to constitutional or evidentiary violations.

There are a number of cases that prohibit evidence from being admitted in court when LE violates certain rights or procedures. If anyone is interested, the "fruit from the poisonous tree" doctrine explains how far reaching the consequences can be for LE overreach.
Click to expand...
Do we know that LE has lied to a suspect in this case?

I'm trying to understand how your post fits in with this case.
 
EJB123456 said:
I in no way think that the pinned tweet is relevant but she wrote it in November, and unless y’all know of a way I don’t, you cannot tell WHEN it was pinned. Could have been pinned in November, could have been pinned in March. I’m sure Twitter could tell us (or LE) though.

You can always go back through your old tweets and pin one.

Edited: because I can’t spell.
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Thank you @EJB123456 for the info! Twitter is one platform that I am NOT knowledgeable in. I find it weird and confusing. Set up a Twitter years ago and honestly can’t remember my handle or whatever ya call it.
 
Hanoi2009 said:
More about the running angle:

MT had an iPhone and Fitbit- neither of these would help her with her training per se. Given her age and interaction with SM, I’ll bet anything she had a running app. I use RunKeeper. As I run, it tracks my progress, telling me how far I’ve gone and what my average pace is. I’m praying she had one of these apps and that LE can access the data. I don’t know all the ins and outs of it, but it clearly tracks something- hopefully enough to give them some rough location.

Also, in terms of the timeline- as I mentioned previously, I know about running in hot Midwest weather. I think it would be very unusual for her to hang out in her workout clothes post-run. Not only is it not hygienic/healthy for a woman to keep on sweaty running gear, it’s just not comfortable. I strip pretty much immediately. I have to believe that LE/the FBI would have some forensic understanding of how long damp clothes had been off...unless she washed them right away, which would be crummy luck. If she didn’t have some wet workout clothes in the hamper or washer, I’d say it was likely she was wearing them. JMO
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I'm not sure how wet they would have been by the time the investigation began, but I agree that it's not pleasant to wear wet, sweaty clothes any longer than you need to. I always change immediately and sometimes grab a sweatshirt, because as hot as I get while running, I always feel like I'm freezing afterward.
 
If any of you have followed and been haunted (as I have) by the disappearance of Yingying Zhang from the U of Illinois, this situation may seem similar.

Girl goes missing- LE gets video of unique car seen picking her up. I thought to myself at the time, “What’s taking them so long?? It can’t be that hard to find that car!” Come to find out later, LE had a POI very quickly but was waiting to get intel. According to MSM, someone close to POI wore a wire as they attended a vigil with him. The audio surveillance was enough to indict for kidnapping- even though no body has yet been found.

As frustrated as I am with this case, I think LE totally has the timeline and POI nailed...they’re just biding their time to get enough to indict and convict- at least on kidnapping or something else, if not murder. JMO
 
Hi... First-time poster but have been trying to keep up with all the posts and developments for awhile now. I know we have very little confirmed information to go on but based on what has been said by LE and mollie’s parents and their actions, I think 2 scenarios are most likely (I know variations of each has been batted around here). Please bear with me, the post is long, roll and scroll if need be:
1: a local mollie knows either driving drunk or driving distracted accidentally bumps mollie while she is jogging. She’s not terribly injured but local feels bad and offers her a ride to either DJ’s house or her mother. But once in car mollie notices that person is still impaired and acting irrationally and maybe even coming onto her and she wants out. Driver is afraid mollie will tell someone about what happened and they start arguing back and forth about it. By then mollie hasn’t been paying attention to where they are and they are already headed out of town. Since Mollie is level-headed and smart she doesn’t do anything to provoke a bigger reaction figuring alcohol would have to wear off eventually and person would come to their senses. But once they are wherever they are out of town, perp can’t figure out what to do and calls family. They all decide to let things calm down and then return her (meanwhile Mollie is unharmed) but then case explodes with media coverage and now it’s where we are at. Some of the earlier statements by her Dad such as “listen to mollie” make me believe they are asking family and prep to listen to mollie about what to do to resolve this.
2. Again a local or in area person she works with, goes to church with, went to school with, etc. but who has misunderstood the nature of their relationship pulls up to Mollie while she is out jogging. They ask something to the effect of “do you still have that extra red shirt? We need that for the field trip tomorrow” or “do you still have that bible I lent you? I need to get it back”. So in either case mollie jogs back to house while car follows, mollie runs inside real quick to grab the item (no dogs disturbed, she doesn’t change clothes, etc) and leaves house and runs item to wherever car is. Driver offers to drive mollie to her moms house and sees this as a good time to gauge mollies interest in them. When Mollie declines, the person is embarrassed and overreacts and possible strikes or shakes her and frightens her. This leads to same scenario as #1 above, where he panics and takes mollie somewhere, calls his own extended family and wait for things to calm down only they blow up with LE and media.

Either in #1 person is afraid of going to jail since they probably have a long rap sheet or in #2 the person may be more prominent and possibly older so a reputation and family may be involved. Anyways sorry for long first time post. Just scenarios I’ve been thinking about. Probably not anywhere close to what really happened. Thanks for listening.
 
RANCH said:
Do we know that LE has lied to a suspect in this case?

I'm trying to understand how your post fits in with this case.
Click to expand...

A few people asked this question a few pages ago and there seemed to be some debate on it. I don't like to quote specific posts if I'm just chiming in with general information because people often feel like I'm correcting them (which I'm not) instead of just adding information from my perspective that may or may not be interesting to other people too.
 
Hanoi2009 said:
If any of you have followed and been haunted (as I have) by the disappearance of Yingying Zhang from the U of Illinois, this situation may seem similar.

Girl goes missing- LE gets video of unique car seen picking her up. I thought to myself at the time, “What’s taking them so long?? It can’t be that hard to find that car!” Come to find out later, LE had a POI very quickly but was waiting to get intel. According to MSM, someone close to POI wore a wire as they attended a vigil with him. The audio surveillance was enough to indict for kidnapping- even though no body has yet been found.

As frustrated as I am with this case, I think LE totally has the timeline and POI nailed...they’re just biding their time to get enough to indict and convict- at least on kidnapping or something else, if not murder. JMO
Click to expand...
I really hope so!
 
I saw forever ago in one of the threads that MT was on the phone with her dad for three hours- I think the night before she disappeared. Yes? If so, any theories as to what they could’ve discussed? Obviously sheer speculation, of course, but I wonder if something was wrong, and if it could have anything to do with any of this. That’s a long phone call...
 
Alethea said:
LE can lie to a suspect but it's going to come up at trial and a good defense lawyer would paint it as entrapment and inept police work. There's always a balancing act for LE and prosecutors: you want to catch your perpetrator but you don't want to have him walk free because your evidence is inadmissible due to constitutional or evidentiary violations. There are a number of cases that prohibit evidence from being admitted in court when LE violates certain rights or procedures. If anyone is interested, the "fruit from the poisonous tree" doctrine explains how far reaching the consequences can be for LE overreach.
Click to expand...

Fascinating stuff. Thank you, Alethea.

Ten Ways Police Can Legally Lie to You

(1) Police Can Lie About Having Physical Evidence.

"We have your fingerprints." "We have your DNA."

(2) Police can trick you into giving up your DNA.

"Would you like something to drink?"

(3) Police can give fake tests to "prove you're guilty".

"You failed the polygraph." "You failed a chemical test."

(4) Police may lie about having eyewitnesses.

"An eyewitness identified you leaving the scene."

(5) Police can lie about recording your conversation.

"I'm turning the recorder off, this is just between you and me." "This is off the record."

(6) Police can lie about having an accomplice's confession.

"Your friend sold you out and told us everything."

(7) The police will try to imply that your refusal to cooperate will be damaging to your case.

"We know what happened, but if you obstruct our investigation the DA will be a lot tougher on you."

(8) Police can lie about what will happen to other people.

"Your friend will spend their life in jail if you don't tell us what happened."

(9) They will lie about wanting to help you out.

"We know what happened, best thing for you is to tell us how write it up in your favor and we will help you out." "We have enough evidence to charge you - this is your only opportunity to tell your story."

(10) Police may ignore your request for a lawyer.

There is an evidentiary loophole that allows voluntary statements, given in violation of Miranda, to be usable in court for impeachment purposes (challenging the defendant's credibility).

https://www.njmoorelaw.com/10-ways-police-can-lie-to-you
 
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ChuckMaureen said:
That Amber Alert incident occurred 11/20/2017.

MT posted her tweet 11/14/2017.

That girl is not the one.
Click to expand...
the question wasn't about when it was posted but rather when it was pinned.
Nevermind. I misunderstood what was being said at first. Even more creepy! :eek:
 
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CuriousCricket said:
I agree, if you are helping catch a killer, I'm not really fixated on the rights of a second or third cousin I've never heard of.

The thing about DNA testing is that no one sees your DNA or can make any health-related decisions about it. Now, if insurance companies could subponea your DNA, and actually comb through it, then maybe. However, your entire DNA (or genome, I think it may be called) is not tested, but certain locations (and each company tests different ones). Each tester is given a list of "matches" or cousins -- just their names or nicknames -- along with a predicted relationship -- 2nd to 4th cousin, fifth to remote cousin, etc.

HOWEVER, the predictions don't mean much. DNA is wild and each person can get more DNA from one side of the family than the other. My sister and I tested and it's very interesting each matches the most.

You MUST work DNA tests. You are not just handed your family tree. You have to work your matches' trees in order to determine even which side of the family your match is on. For lots of people that is very difficult to do.

SHEW, you got me started! Didn't mean to go into that, but DNA has helped me with relationships there is no documentation for and mainly confirmed the family tree I've been building for years.

It's just another possible tool for LE. Like fingerprinting was when it was first discovered.
Click to expand...
You’re exactly right. I have absolutely no issue with such databases being used to find suspects in major crimes. It’s an arduous process, from what I understand. It’s such a tremendous tool, and has the potential to solve many more cases that have DNA, but no suspect to link it to. My privacy concerns are what may come down the road, but it’s not a huge concern of mine, as I don’t foresee a climate that would allow this data to impact people on a personal level (health insurance etc).
 
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