ID - 4 University of Idaho Students Murdered - Moscow # 32

[Susan A]

It doesn’t appear that either K or M is carrying a hand bag from looking at the grub hub vid. Wonder if someone could have slipped an air tag into one of their pockets to track them from the club?

 

[NervousNellie]

It doesn’t appear that either K or M is carrying a hand bag from looking at the grub hub vid. Wonder if someone could have slipped an air tag into one of their pockets to track them from the club?

I just heard about this method being used in crimes - but if the individual has an iphone, it will alert them that an airtag is around, correct? Do we know what kind of phones K&M used?

 

[NCgardener]

I haven't read that. do you have a link?

I have read 'not bound and gagged' - that's way different than a piece of duct tape IMO, so if there's more detail, I'd love to read it. bound and gagged here: Police say slain Idaho college students were not ‘tied and gagged’ as rumors circulate about deaths and MPD link.


JMO not necessarily on the waking up part. if the tape was pre-cut, one quick placement and you're done. When you're in bed with someone else, esp, you might not be aware of every touch in the night. Like white noise. JMO though.

Rollings did that with the duct tape over the mouth. He stabbed more than one person in the same bed and also in the same house without waking up the roommate.

 

[newredtabby]

Such a good post!

A further comment on the live video at the Grub Truck: There is something really off about this in my book. Firstly, not everyone is going to realize that they are being live-streamed. What an invasion of privacy. Also, though: it strikes me as voyeuristic -not a healthy thing to be doing, watching strangers via one-way camera. Lastly, as you said: This is the opposite of safe. Talk about creating an environment for predation.

In the United States there is no legal expectation of privacy when you are in a public space.

 

[Lalalacasbah]

there is some line between some one showing interest and you do not like them, and some one obsessing and not going away or creeping around and "watching" you.

The Goncalves family said Kaylee was a “street wise” individual who was always aware of her environment, including filming anything she thought was suspicious."
Rachel Sharp25 November 2022 23:40

Idaho student murders latest: Victim’s father says Moscow police believe only one of four students killed was ‘target’ - Time Bulletin USA

Video shows mystery man with slain Idaho studentsSign up to our free US news bulletin sent straight

timebulletin.us

I agree. If someone is made uncomfortable by someone else being inappropriate, I'd hope they document and let others or those you trust know.

And thank you for this link, I knew it was published somewhere how crime/safety savvy she was! I didn't have that link for my previous comment how I'm sure she would document things in some form if being bothered.

 

[di anna]

Maybe the room mates on the bottom floor were not as involved in the lives of the victims. I believe from what I have read that they were the lower classmen.
I know that some students graduate at a very young age due to their grades and taking college equivalent classes so they may be ahead of other students. That being said maybe they just don't know much about the other girls that they lived with, in other words maybe they kept to themselves more. I dunno. Just pondering the situation.

 

[tokyorose]

In the United States there is no legal expectation of privacy when you are in a public space.

This is a good point and one to be aware of when we are out and about. What has changed in the past 20 years is that there is no way to know who exactly is watching us...

 

[CityKid]

For those who have speculated or estimated the duration required to kill a person with a knife: Something the order of 20 seconds or less, considering the size of the knife and prone condition of the victims. Delivery rate can easiIy be quicker than 2-stabs per second.
Lots of video online showing knife attacks and I will not provide a direct link but one of decent quality and from MSM shows an altercation between a 31-year old and a 52 year old of shorter stature and the 52 year old is wielding the knife.

I exchanged PM with admin on how to direct those of high curiosity along with tolerance for the graphical nature; so for those so inclined, clip the following into Google Search and the first search result links to it...Otherwise, trust me, it does not take long.

Wild video shows NYC bodega worker allegedly stabbing man to death

This happened in my city. Can't watch again but I was shocked at how easy it was.

 

[Sundog]

I wonder if these towns are close to any of the hometowns of any of the victims.

 

[Sister Golden Hair]

Rollings did that with the duct tape over the mouth. He stabbed more than one person in the same bed and also in the same house without waking up the roommate.

Yeppers, and I know someone who was part of that nightmare, and this is exactly who this killer reminds me of JMO IMO.

 

[layer]

I knew it was published somewhere how crime/safety savvy she was!

She was also reportedly a web sleuth.

 

[tokyorose]

It doesn’t appear that either K or M is carrying a hand bag from looking at the grub hub vid. Wonder if someone could have slipped an air tag into one of their pockets to track them from the club?

Interesting you bring this up... I believe Apple is currently being sued over the security risks these devices bring with them, I hope they are taken off the market personally.

 

[Lalalacasbah]

Apologies if this has been addressed, but this whole "stalker" concept is something I find very aggravating. The problem is, we really have no idea how serious this was. As pointed out earlier her, it could be something very benign, such as a man who she didn't want to date still asking her out, but nothing she took seriously. On the other hand, it could have been very serious, and she was afraid, and that's the reason she told her father about it. Then, there's everything in between.

I've heard of and mentioned "stalkers" many times in my life with friends and family, but it's usually joking. I've only one time been in a situation where I felt that a man's behavior was starting to be frightening, and I went to the police and reported it.

I just have a very hard time getting a handle on what she really meant by "stalker". Was it an ex-boyfriend who wanted to re-ignite the relationship? A guy she knew who she didn't want to date, but didn't want to hurt his feelings, so let him keep asking (avoiding the date with an "I'm busy" instead of a more firm "no")? Was it someone she did or didn't know who kept turning up in odd places? Was she frightened? How to know how serious this was. I just don't believe the Vape guy, and I can't quite get the meaning from t

Apologies if this has been addressed, but this whole "stalker" concept is something I find very aggravating. The problem is, we really have no idea how serious this was. As pointed out earlier her, it could be something very benign, such as a man who she didn't want to date still asking her out, but nothing she took seriously. On the other hand, it could have been very serious, and she was afraid, and that's the reason she told her father about it. Then, there's everything in between.

I've heard of and mentioned "stalkers" many times in my life with friends and family, but it's usually joking. I've only one time been in a situation where I felt that a man's behavior was starting to be frightening, and I went to the police and reported it.

I just have a very hard time getting a handle on what she really meant by "stalker". Was it an ex-boyfriend who wanted to re-ignite the relationship? A guy she knew who she didn't want to date, but didn't want to hurt his feelings, so let him keep asking (avoiding the date with an "I'm busy" instead of a more firm "no")? Was it someone she did or didn't know who kept turning up in odd places? Was she frightened? How to know how serious this was. I just don't believe the Vape guy, and I can't quite get the meaning from the father.

True, the word is tossed around and used very casually these days especially with social media. No idea with K though... Really hard to tell but should be noted.

I still say to anyone out there, if someone makes you feel uncomfortable in a situation (work, school, online, etc.) or affects your livelihood or privacy, document and even report a police report as a just in case. People can escalate, always good to have a record - make a copy of your log and give to friends, family or LE. It doesn't hurt to be safe.

 

[layer]

Yeppers, and I know someone who was part of that nightmare, and this is exactly who this killer reminds me of JMO IMO.

Before the Gainesville murders he is so famous for, Rolling murdered an entire family in their home in Shreveport. It highlights the fact that these killers need to be stopped before they can do even more damage.

 

[pittsburghgirl]

What they were doing an hour before the murders is highly relevant. No one is victim blaming.

It's relevant to the investigation because there is no way to know at the time the murders were discovered what happened and why. However, it may turn out that the whereabouts of the 6 people in the house that night is not relevant to who killed the 4 victims and why.

 

[al66pine]

KILL SUIT?

I guess I live a sheltered life. I never knew there was such a thing as a kill suit.

@SUSAN ANN
Looks like it's time to step up your true crime reading.

BTW, as the link noted, items like these hooded coveralls* are also used in mundane, noncriminal jobs, like "... heavy duty commercial jobs including painting, paint spraying, fiberglass, boat manufacturing, light chemical, pesticide spraying, automobile refinishing, waste cleanup and remediation."

*Everbilt Men's XL Grey SMS Breathable Hooded Coveralls FDC-001A - The Home Depot

 

[Sister Golden Hair]

The thing that concerns me is social media. We can take all the safety precautions in the world, but if we are putting our lives, locations and habits out there for everyone to see on the Internet then that is dangerous.

AND I can speak to this from experience, at least IME, once I had access to deep background research databases and saw how much/how quickly I could research everything starting with some social media info (sm and obituaries lay it all out), I took all mine down and more. JMO

 

[Muddy K]

I agree. Or digital evidence or photos.

Found this in the 12/6 press release:
From this link. https://www.ci.moscow.id.us/DocumentCenter/View/24891/12-06-22-Moscow-Homicide-Update

View attachment 388074

Glad to see this being discussed again, and I'm linking the December 3rd video from Brian Entin via Twitter:

https://twitter.com/x/status/1599234449237237760

Back on December 6th, in my first post as a new WS member, I raised the same issue: that the number of physical evidence pieces collected hadn’t increased despite the removal on December 3rd of bagged items from the house by what appeared to be LE individuals.

Possibilities explaining the discrepancy that I could think of then:

Evidence recovered and not in the custody of MPD, but another branch of LE.
Evidence recovered but not yet recorded to the MPD physical evidence catalog because they are so heavily tasked.

Moscow LE uses the phrase "physical evidence" in their own press releases, so I'm taking that at face value and not making any assumptions about "forensic evidence."

I don't know what number of physical evidence items could be considered customary in a case that is anything but. Among the 113 pieces of physcal evidence collected - my opinion only - it seems that the following items could be included:

Bed linens from all floors
Articles of clothing found on the bodies of the victims and any discarded clothing they may have worn earlier that night
All cell phones
Any object with blood on it
Any object that appears to have been disrupted (tipped over, broken, etc.)
Any device that contains data (an Alexa, smartwatches, wi-fi routers, computers, etc.)
Area rugs
Any journals, diaries, scraps of writing, pieces of mail, etc.
Kitchen items reflecting recent eating and drinking
Kitchen knives
Any item that might carry fingerprints
Any common household tools
Garbage from waste receptacles throughout, inside and out
Anything recovered from outside/the perimeter of the property

Maybe this list comprises fewer than 113 items, maybe more. It's just what I could come up with, and it does NOT include the "dripping blood" on the exterior of the house because whether that is or is not blood has yet to be addressed by LE.

I'm curious to know what everybody else would add to a list of physical evidence that could have / should have been collected from this terrible scene.

 

[margarita25]

My GUESS at this point is the white Elantra is being concealed in a garage/building, burned, in the bottom of a lake or river, abandoned over state lines, or something similar. Perps seem to think they can rely on “jurisdictional blindness”, as our Late Great @Foxfire used to call it.

Iirc, in Tim Bosma’s case (killed for his truck), the perp hid his truck in his mom’s garage.

My guess is the car doesn’t belong to a witness, but likely the killer, jmo.

I have seen a few conjectures that the Hyundai Elantra could have been burned after the crime. There are many places to hide a vehicle, but in a populated area, I think it would be very risky and very unlikely that a car could be torched without drawing attention. A fire capable of basically destroying a vehicle is not a small blaze. It is a fully-involved, black-smoke fire that would be noticed for quite some distance, and would very likely be seen and reported by someone. JMO

IF the white Elantra belongs to the killer hypothetically or even the killer's family member or friend, and the car is at the bottom of a lake, burnt or even hidden away. How do you explain the car away!?

How does the killer explain where the car is or what happened to it? Even if it's their car people are going to notice this person is no longer driving, or perhaps notice its no longer parked where it usually is. You can only make excuses for so long.

Even if this person was a student that left to go home for Thanksgiving early two states away and never came back, 4 students were brutally murdered where you go to school. Your family are definitely following the case. They'd know the car being sought. Your friends also know what car you drive.

Its only a matter of time.

Certainly some great points made here in response to the possibility of the car being burned out.

The reason why I was thinking this is because I’ve seen it in a lot of other cases, specifically on a lot of ID shows, but thinking about this more, that’s often in locations out in the desert, California, Arizona, New Mexico. However, I have seen this in remote locations out in the woods, at scenes where there is a lot of dumped debris, like old couches and stuff, party locations, etc., in non-desert states. I’ve also seen cars pushed down embankments, cliffs, etc.

If the intent is simply to burn the evidence, destroy blood, DNA, etc., one could burn it up on a highway, say the car was stolen, etc. Of course that would insert them into the investigation, just talking out loud.

There is also the possibility the car really was stolen, which LE would likely be checking into all reported stolen cars matching that description.

Good point also about if the car is destroyed, one might look suspicious when their vehicle suddenly disappears or can not be accounted for. If it’s a lone perp, he wouldn’t have to answer to anyone, or he could tell whoever the car was stolen. If he’s driving a different car, he could also say he sold his other one, or traded it in, or whatever, if someone asks. If he’s out of state, and others are not familiar with the details of this case and the car being looked for, it wouldn’t raise suspicion.

Which brings up another point: I’ve seen some say it’s unlikely there are people who don’t know about this case. Perhaps this is more true in the state of Idaho, but as aware as we are of these cases, not everyone watches the news, YouTube videos, uses social media, etc., specifically some older people. I could probably mention this to someone out of state, and there would be the chance they may not know anything other than “Yeah, I heard something about that, college kids killed..”, and that could be the extent of their knowledge. Or perhaps they may not know anything at all. I know it seems hard to believe when some of us are so plugged into the news and true crime, but honestly not everyone else is, as hard as that is to believe. Again, in Idaho, probably not so much, but I don’t think it can be taken for granted that every single person in the US is aware of a white Elantra being sought.

 

[Jawds78]

I can't speak for anyone else, but my Ring cameras don't record cars driving by on the street, only things and people that are fairly close. And sometimes, they even miss those.

I apologize if anyone already responsed but this is up to the user and can be changed on settings I believe. Mine shows the whole street out front, my neighbor directly across has hers set to just her driveway.