ID - 4 University of Idaho Students Murdered - Moscow # 33

[Charlot123]

Am I the only one who thinks that middle (2nd) floor would be a virtual maze in the dark? One external entry, three interior doors, two staircases, plus living room AND kitchen furniture, plus kitchen tools, etc.

I have trouble believing an intruder would even find X's bedroom after entering through the slider, UNLESS he had been on site before. (ETA OR the intruder was interrupted by E or X investigating a noise they heard. Perhaps that drew the attacker back to X's bedroom.)

How easy would it be to hack X's phone to see the motions? Or even to leave some mini bug to listen to conversations? It seems that the house was neat, but it being a party house, and people coming and going?

KG said she had a stalker. I don't know if it was her stalker (I somewhat doubt it), but some people have heightened intuition, and i always wonder if KG had it. Maybe it was simply someone watching the house, or eavesdropping conversations, or even hacking someone else's phone that she perceived as personal stalking?

 

[Charlot123]

I remember early there were questions about why the girls would be at that "dive bar"... no shock to me personally, I loved dive bars at that age and still do when I get a chance!

However, IIRC people were reacting as to why they would be in "such a place." Makes more sense now as they could've been visiting Adam.

I used to always go visit pals at pubs/restaurants if I knew they were working... especially a bartender, where they might promo drinks/freebies, make drinks stronger, get drink deals, etc. And works for bartender too... might like when friends bring friends (pretty girls) down to where they are as can make a place busier, or seem "happening".

JMO, MOO from my bartending days

I had to Google "dive bars", then realized that I visited some locally. I am not even a drinker, but these places have food, too, and they close later, this is why.

 

[drmrgrl]

The Elantra.

Elantra seen going towards house in 2:45 - 3:15 timeframe

How easy would it be to hack X's phone to see the motions? Or even to leave some mini bug to listen to conversations? It seems that the house was neat, but it being a party house, and people coming and going?

KG said she had a stalker. I don't know if it was her stalker (I somewhat doubt it), but some people have heightened intuition, and i always wonder if KG had it. Maybe it was simply someone watching the house, or eavesdropping conversations, or even hacking someone else's phone that she perceived as personal stalking?

IMO I think KG was a very very intuitive person.I think the killer had definitely been in the home before and the info about Xs Dad changing or fixing a lock lends credence to that. I think someone was spooking around their house or letting themselves in from time to time as an acquaintance perhaps. Mrs G summed it up best: the boogeyman!

 

[drmrgrl]

An extreme sense of self entitlement would allow this person to do this and not even blink an eye

 

[Helechawagirl]

That car had to go somewhere right after the crime to be cleaned up, where? If not the boonies, someone must've noticed!

Not necessarily. If he put his outer clothes, gloves, shoes in a garbage bag, then tossed it in the trunk, wouldn’t look out of the ordinary.

May not have changed shoes, but the rest seems like a possibility.

 

[Kaykedi]

Not necessarily. If he put his outer clothes, gloves, shoes in a garbage bag, then tossed it in the trunk, wouldn’t look out of the ordinary.

May not have changed shoes, but the rest seems like a possibility.

My brother in law is a plumber and he wears those disposable boot covers over his footwear when he walks in his home (because my sister won't have dirt walked into the carpet). I imagine they'd be very useful to a killer (perish the thought)

 

[Helechawagirl]

With respect and I'm sorry to quibble, but aren't "well-planned" and "crime of opportunity" opposite situations? Perhaps I don't understand the latter term.

Crime of opportunity could mean that the house was easily accessed, normally full of girls, etc. In other words, not personal, but easy to surveil. JMO

 

[BlueTunes]

IMO I think KG was a very very intuitive person.I think the killer had definitely been in the home before and the info about Xs Dad changing or fixing a lock lends credence to that.

JMO

I agree. It’s terribly sad. I have a feeling something was telling her to protect herself. To be extra safe and cautious. Enough to where she didn’t feel safe to sleep alone. It would explain why she chose to sleep with M that night.

 

[katydid23]

I made the mistake this afternoon of reading content from "unapproved sources". It gave me a new appreciation for the moderators on Websleuths who do not allow rumors and speculation to be discussed on this forum. I also understand why they don't allow people to be named by name on here since they are not actually suspects identified by police. There are people whose names will be forever linked to this case on the internet when it may turn out that they had no involvement whatsoever.

It must be devastating. Can you imagine if your kid was a member of one of those fraternities or sororities, and they got accused on Reddit or FB or TikTok of being the killer? It could go viral...Their chance of getting their prize job or attain another goal or ambition would be down the drain, for no reason at all. It is disgusting.

 

[katydid23]

With respect and I'm sorry to quibble, but aren't "well-planned" and "crime of opportunity" opposite situations? Perhaps I don't understand the latter term.

IMO, "well planned" and "Crime of opportunity" are not always in opposition.

There are many predators, like Israel Keyes, Ted Bundy, whom kept a 'kill kit' in their car trunk. It had all the necessary tools needed to abduct, disable and dispose etc. They were well prepared but they waited for the next prime opportunity to set their plans in motion.

So if they saw a woman with a flat tire on side of the road, or a drunk girl leaving a bar alone, they had a plan in place and could take on the opportunity.

 

[AngTxGal]

There may be 22,000 white 2011-2013 hyundai elantras in the united states. But logically, LE can rule out approximately 80 to 90% of those right off the bat. How many are registered within Moscow? How many in the county? How many within a 180 mile radius? How many reported stolen within a 300 mile radius? That’s pretty much it. Again, it’s an Idaho plate or it’s not. And LE probably knows whether it’s in or out of state.

The 22,000 isn’t the number of Hyundai Elantra years 2011-2013 in the United States, it is the number that have been identified that meet their criteria requiring further investigation.

“In a Thursday video update, Moscow Police Capt. Roger Lanier said they’ve received and are “sorting through” a list of roughly 22,000 registered Elantras that met their criteria. But, he said, it may not be all of the vehicles.”

Read more at: https://www.idahostatesman.com/news/local/crime/article270055382.html#storylink=cpy

Student vehicles are typically registered under parent names, insured by parents, and have license plates from student home state. Wading through even just those registered to 50 something’s to determine which have students who live in or near Moscow, ID takes time.

Anyone moving to the area recently would have registration from prior address.

Anyone traveling through for work could have registration just about anywhere.

Rental cars would be registered with tags from the original state where rented.

If LE knows the plate is out of state, it would make sense for them to have shared that info. LE cannot determine not to investigated leads, each and every one must be investigated to a logical end- telling the public not to report plates within Idaho if the plate is out of state would save untold man hours. For this reason I don’t think they know if it is Idaho plate or not.

This is a huge undertaking to sift through all of these 22,000 and growing, I wish there was some way to be of help

JMO

 

[cottonweaver]

Those are typical traffic cams though - there's no chance of reading a license plate off a moving car*. Red light cameras are designed for the explicit purpose of capturing a license plate in motion. They also make horrible traffic cams.

*unless things have drastically improved recently

Static cameras reading license plates of cars travelling at high speeds
It's routine tech in the UK - has been for years, so it must be in some/many states of the USA too

 

[cottonweaver]

Thanks for the link. “2 people had defensive wounds” is something I can’t remember hearing prior.

me neither

case details which LE wants to keep ' close to the vest'?
or
just off the cuff comments from bereaved & frustrated father (may not be representative of the actual case details)

 

[MassGuy]

IMO, "well planned" and "Crime of opportunity" are not always in opposition.

There are many predators, like Israel Keyes, Ted Bundy, whom kept a 'kill kit' in their car trunk. It had all the necessary tools needed to abduct, disable and dispose etc. They were well prepared but they waited for the next prime opportunity to set their plans in motion.

So if they saw a woman with a flat tire on side of the road, or a drunk girl leaving a bar alone, they had a plan in place and could take on the opportunity.

I’m in an academy in a major us city. Bundy and Keyes were doing what’s called decompensating . Or a similar word. Basically they were losing it at the end.


Someone correct me

 

[cottonweaver]

Yeah I think his communication has been a lot more constructive since they hired the lawyer.

Lawyer Shanon Grey is a former prosecutor ( DDA Multnomah County)
Grey would already know why it wouldn't necessarily be ' cowardly' to refuse to disclose gender in this live investigation

Kaylee Goncalves' father speaks out on update in Idaho murder case | Fox News Video

Steve Goncalves pushes for answers in Idaho murder case on 'Lawrence Jones Cross Country.'

www.foxnews.com

 

[AngTxGal]

That the driver of the vehicle, in the vicinity of the mass murder during the murders, has not come forward implies that the driver has something to hide about that evening, such as what he was doing during the murders. If he has nothing to hide, he would have come forward to clear himself by now. That's what we've seen in other multiple murders such as cousins Lyric and Lizzie in Evansdale. A van was near the specific location where two girls disappeared. The vehicle owner came forward, the driver was cleared ... ruled out.

That hasn't happened with the white car near this mass murder, which increases the likelihood that the driver is involved in the murders ... although police have said this is a witness vehicle.

We do not know if any or how many drivers of white sedans have come forward to LE saying they were driving in or through Moscow ID Nov 12-13, 2022.
It is possible there are many who were that had nothing to do with these murders.

Does anyone know if they are seeking a 2 door or 4 door Hyundai Elantra? I have seen stock images of both versions in the media but have not seen where it has been specified.

This distinction would quickly reduce the 22,000 to something more managable.

JMO

 

[katydid23]

Elantra

What if he knew where someone kept their keys and took it without their knowledge - and returned it?

I do know that groups of kids who live together sometimes do stuff like that with each others cars. It could have happened that way.

 

[SophieRose]

https://www.idahostatesman.com/news/northwest/idaho/article268735027.html

Police originally said the students were found in a Moscow house that had been converted into apartments. Property management company Team Idaho Real Estate & Property Management told the Idaho Statesman that was not the case. The company said the entire home was being rented under a 12-month lease that began June 5.

 

[Kittycat40]

“But what makes you think someone hasn't? Why wouldn't LE hold that information from the public until ready to make an arrest to either keep the occupant(s) safe (if only possible witnesses to anything) or to keep the suspects (should they turn out to be so) from rabbiting?

How would it be to hear "Yesterday we told you we had located the occupants of the vehicle and had spoken with them. Today this person is missing and please send any information on them if you have seen them (or worse a second murder victim)"?

LE does not want to take that chance, imo, just like they probably didn't ask for the publics help until they needed to.The public knowing if it has been located is not as important as LE gathering what is needed”

Ghostwheel entire post above in bold.

I am quoting ghostwheels post from a previously closed thread. I was at an amusement park all day yesterday so I had no time to read posts or reply to them til now

You said what makes me think someone hasn’t? Well because all the new stations, newspapers etc have repeated that they are looking for the person and or person who were in the white Hyundai near the murde scene. Also many news stations like fox have specifically stated the person in the white Hyundai Elantra seen near the murder scene has still NOT come forward.

I disagree with you here. Let’s give some hypotheticals.

Let’s say LE has heard from the occupants that were in the white Hyundai near the murder scene. LE and the FBI could keep the occupants safe assuming they’re innocent witnesses that had nothing to do with the crime.

Now on the flip side let’s assume they got sufficient evidence to show who the person and or persons were and that the occupants of the white Hyundai were the ones responsible for the murder.

Regardless of either of the above scenarios.

LE and the FBI could protect the integrity of the investigation and protect identify of the person who either came forward or was reported by someonelse.

Here’s how:

LE could say the occupant and or occupants of the white Hyundai Elantra seen near the murder scene on Nov 13 has come forward or they could say through leads and tips we have identified the person or persons in the car. We will not be releasing the name or description of the person and or persons at this time. Thank you!!

 

[AngTxGal]

It's not crime scene tape, its caution tape. It's only been stated that the car sped past.


The Corner Club is where the college kids hung out. It was the popular go to spot.

Some are posting as if ‘dive bar’ is in and of itself something Nefarious. Not in my experience
Dive bars are locally owned bars frequented by students mix with locals who are regulars
The most popular dive bars I’ve frequented were owned by alum from the local university
- no cover charge, low cover charge on live music night,
- cheap drink specials and ice cold beer focus, some beer on tap,
- electronic trivia games are popular,
- karaoke on some nights, live music by young artists,
- small dance floor,
- darts, pool table,
- places to sit and smoke outside no matter the weather,
- grilled basic food menu.

What is not at diver bars- top shelf cocktails and a selection of expensive cigars

JMO