ID - DeOrr Kunz Jr, 2, Timber Creek Campground, 10 July 2015 - #14

[pappa rob]

Personally, I'm as vigilant as they come, especially with children. But no matter how vigilant I may be, I would not EVER have thought about the presence of mountain lions. I also am curious where you got your statistics that no one reads those signs anyway. I read ALL the signs and pay attention to what they say. Would the average person know how to behave should a mountain lion come around? I don't think so, yet those signs DO tell us what to do and what NOT to do (such as run). Comparing a warning/informational sign about the dangers of mountain lions shouldn't (obviously) be compared to the woman who (allegedly) didn't expect her coffee to be as hot as it was. Were you just trying to be funny with that analogy?

Sorry that's just my wicked humor leaking through. I'm happy that you're one of the few that reads the signs. I don't how many times I've seen people driving the wrong way on a one way street, or ignore wet paint, floor.... all with disastrous results. About the unfortunate woman who was burned by her coffee, the main reason she sued was to get people to lower the temperature of the coffee, I'll agree with that. I'm just saying if you're outdoors or in the woods it's never a safe place. even animals that seem safe aren't, people are killed by deer, elk, bison..

 

[Xara]

View attachment 84552

View attachment 84553

I think signs like this are a great idea. Just to remind campers to be extra vigilant about supervising their children closely at all times.

I am from the San Mateo/ Belmont, CA area. I lived near
HWY 280, which is a wooded mountainous area. We had those signs in our neighborhood. Luckily, I've never come across one face to face. But, I know they were there. Very close to my house. I could hear them at night sometimes. Females make an awful screeching noise when looking for a mate.

ETA: actually those look like the exact signs we had.
Perhaps we used to be neighbors?

 

[Xara]

I don't know how much sense that makes. In the first place most people don't even look at the signs, then mountain lions have been found in larger towns. Any time that you're outdoors you really need to be vigilant, just this summer a neighbors dog went after one of my Granddaughters. I was only 8 steps away and got there before the dog got a chance to do anything. It's lucky for the dog that I wasn't fast enough to catch him, both of us would of been hurt. I think it's kind of like printing a line on a coffee cup, "caution contents may be hot". Isn't that something everyone should know? Or is that something everyone assumes, that they're safe everyplace they go.

Trust me.....people DO pay attention to those signs.

 

[pappa rob]

Trust me.....people DO pay attention to those signs.

Ok I'll admit some people do. Just because you do that doesn't mean everyone else does. Most of the time now people are too busy watching their phones to see anything around them.

 

[Lilibet]

This is OT regarding DeOrr, but relevant to the issue of warning signs.

I live in a community that is part of the habitat for mountain lions, bear and deer. A bear cub even made national news when it wandered through a local pharmacy.
http://www.kptv.com/story/26867835/black-bear-cub-wanders-aisles-of-rite-aid-store-in-oregon

IMO The most dangerous of the three is deer. There have been several attacks by deer in the past few years. Since they forage near my front door, I am very careful when I walk outside and around my neighborhood. I have even been blocked from returning to my home by a deer in my front yard that I'm not about to challenge. Over the past twenty-five years they have invaded the town and have no fear. Although some "experts" chastise residents for feeding the deer, the deer find food on their own in our front yards. The city is "studying" the problem. There are no signs posted (yet) warning people to give deer a wide berth. They would have to have signs in every block! Visitors to town do not understand the danger and want to get up close and take photos of "Bambi."

So my point (besides a deer rant) is that, while signs are helpful and informative, they will not prevent attacks by wild animals. Even informed people can get hurt or worse. And there will always be people who take stupid risks. JMO

http://www.oregonlive.com/pacific-n...f/2015/09/fear_the_deer_an_oregon_city_d.html

 

[ILOKAL]

View attachment 84552

View attachment 84553

I think signs like this are a great idea. Just to remind campers to be extra vigilant about supervising their children closely at all times.

I just remembered at least one and possibly two civil suits were brought in California against the state for the very reason that warning signs were NOT posted in areas where there was known to be mountain lions after children were attacked there.

 

[charminglane]

Of and on we have signs posted in my neighborhood. Mostly when a mountain lion is seen in the same place more than a few times in a row. Or when one is seen taking a pet.
Bears and deer are a daily happening.
It is the rogue coyote that is fearless - that is the one I watch for daily when walking the dog.
I'm outside of Pasadena, CA.

 

[AuctionGal]

When I went to the Great Smoky Mountains, I read the bear signs. But I also read the instructions when I assemble things, which I have found that lots of people don't. Although I knew the bear attacks could happen, I also remember thinking that would never happen to me. Do others think that way? Thinking that the bad things in life usually happen to other people, until something bad happens to them?

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G870A using Tapatalk

 

[ILOKAL]

When I went to the Great Smoky Mountains, I read the bear signs. But I also read the instructions when I assemble things, which I have found that lots of people don't. Although I knew the bear attacks could happen, I also remember thinking that would never happen to me. Do others think that way? Thinking that the bad things in life usually happen to other people, until something bad happens to them?

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G870A using Tapatalk

Same location, different thought, LOL. We were looking for a place to camp in the TN mountains this past summer and thought the Great Smokey Mountains would be ideal. Did I mention we were tent camping with our 7-yr old grandson? As soon as I found out about the bears, I immediately decided it wasn't the place for us. Didn't even HAVE to read any signs! We camped 30-min from Knoxville. No bears!

 

[ninij9]

When I went to the Great Smoky Mountains, I read the bear signs. But I also read the instructions when I assemble things, which I have found that lots of people don't. Although I knew the bear attacks could happen, I also remember thinking that would never happen to me. Do others think that way? Thinking that the bad things in life usually happen to other people, until something bad happens to them?

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G870A using Tapatalk

I was just deciding whether I should post that I read those signs for bear in the Great Smoky Mountains!!! My son was 2, my daughter was 6. My husband and I decided not to walk at all after reading them. Scary.

Sent from my XT1254 using Tapatalk

 

[ninij9]

^^^ I also observed those signs on a trip to Great Smoky Mountains! They scared the crap out of DH and I. We had our 2 and 6 year olds with us. We turned around.

Sent from my XT1254 using Tapatalk

 

[charminglane]

Maybe if we all concentrate really hard on little Deorr sending us some kind of sign in the next couple of days -
It can't hurt, right? Just a little sign!

 

[Rayemonde]

It says that they want to raise $20, 000 to hire Philip Klein.

 

[Arnie M]

.

I have no problem with the parents raising money to hire a PI .... I just wonder what a latecomer could find that original police or FBI could not find.

Philip Klein has a good record , but it often involves parental-abduction missing kids . In those cases there is a known child and parent out there somewhere and it is simply a matter of spending the hours on basic detective work to track them down.

Stranger-abductions are rare , to have a kidnapper in the remote mountains is even rarer , to have one in the right spot at the right time no one is watching DeOrr defies logic. Not impossible , but nearly.

 

[Rayemonde]

Personally, I don't think Klein will be able to find anything that the FBI couldn't, either. He might be more effective at stopping the online harassment - he.seems to have a *lot* of experience with lawsuits.

My big worry with PI's is that, intentionally or not, they spend years chasing false leads. Someone sends in a photo of a kids who happens to look a lot like the missing kid, and the Pi spends years, a ton of money, and give the parents more heartache and disappointment. Eg the Ben Needham case (IMO). Personally, I don't think Ben was ever taken off the island of Kos in the first place, and these wild goose chases all around the world are just heartbreaking, IMO. I would hate to see the same thing happen with DeOrr

 

[Rayemonde]

.
Stranger-abductions are rare , to have a kidnapper in the remote mountains is even rarer , to have one in the right spot at the right time no one is watching DeOrr defies logic. Not impossible , but nearly.

I agree with your other points, but I don't agree that it defies logic that someone would have abducted DeOrr. I think it's unlikely, but I'm not sure exactly how unlikely... They were camping at an established campsite with toilet facilities and roads to it, not in a random place in the wilderness. I wonder exactly how popular that campsite was at the time? How many people camp there every year? How many people go up there to fish or hunt, or simply relax? We already know that there were more people camping at a second campsite half a mile away. Why have two campsites at all unless is is a popular location?
Also, I wonder how many people do offloading in the forest?
There are other cases of kids being abducted from campsites, even from tents in the night. Ggp I fear is not a reliable witness and if he went into the camper he certainly would not see a vehicle coming up.

I agree that it's unlikely DeOrr was abducted and other possibilities are a lot more likely, but I don't think it defies logic.

 

[Yvettea]

For me, the new ad produced a visceral reaction of distaste. I was surprised I couldn't look at it and I cried.

ETA: sometimes the worst things that happen to you can turn out to be the best. I'm holding on to that hope for DeOrr.

 

[Mickshawn]

I agree with your other points, but I don't agree that it defies logic that someone would have abducted DeOrr. I think it's unlikely, but I'm not sure exactly how unlikely... They were camping at an established campsite with toilet facilities and roads to it, not in a random place in the wilderness. I wonder exactly how popular that campsite was at the time? How many people camp there every year? How many people go up there to fish or hunt, or simply relax? We already know that there were more people camping at a second campsite half a mile away. Why have two campsites at all unless is is a popular location?
Also, I wonder how many people do offloading in the forest?
There are other cases of kids being abducted from campsites, even from tents in the night. Ggp I fear is not a reliable witness and if he went into the camper he certainly would not see a vehicle coming up.

I agree that it's unlikely DeOrr was abducted and other possibilities are a lot more likely, but I don't think it defies logic.

What does "offloading" mean?

 

[Rayemonde]

What does "offloading" mean?

Sorry, autocorrect I meant off-roading - taking motorbikes or quad bikes through the forest or along trails.

 

[Rayemonde]

Sorry to bring up animal attacks again, but I was just doing some research for the Jaryd Atadero thread (a lot of people don't think that it was an animal attack at all), and I found a case study where a grey wolf attempted to carry away a child in Alaska, despite the child's family and dog being right there with the child. Apparently this behaviour is well known amongst wolves that are habituated to humans.

In Bihar, India, 92 children were preyed upon by wolves be-
tween 1989 and 1995. Wolves grabbed children by
the neck, waist, head, chest or thigh then carried them
away from the attack site. Twenty children were res-
cued alive...

Attempted predation of a child by a Gray Wolf, Canis lupus, near Icy Bay, Alaska
http://journals.sfu.ca/cfn/index.php/cfn/article/view/106