ID - DeOrr Kunz Jr, 2, Timber Creek Campground, 10 July 2015 - #4

[ILOKAL]

http://www.forensicpathologyonline.com/E-Book/asphyxia/drowning
In an earlier thread somebody did indicate a three week window period. I found a very thorough article on the subject of drowning which I provided. Scroll down to the final paragraph and it indicates in summer a child's body would surface within three days.

I believe the Sheriff said three weeks.

 

[leep]

Well if it was almost 2 when they went exploring, they were gone for 10 minutes, searched for 20 minutes, and called 911 at 2:28 (time stamp is recorded on the 911 audio) saying he'd been missing for an hour already...then one or more of their reported times is not right.

My point is I don't think they know for sure how long he was actually missing. Nothing is consistent. Great Grandpa thought D was with parents, and parents thought Great Grandpa was watching him, yet also Great Grandpa took his eyes off him for a minute and he vanished. Both scenarios are not possible.

Great Grandpa is so physically and mentally impaired he was immediately ruled out as a suspect or POI. Yet they left a 2 yr old with him without even verifying beyond any doubt who was supposed to be watching the boy? And the friend, IR, was present and watching the child also, yet the child vanished and the parents never even mentioned there was another adult supposedly in charge? More inconsistencies.

I don't know WHAT happened but I sure hope LE got a more coherent version of events than the public did. All this confusion and intentional withholding of info has caused many people to not even be looking for DeOrr. No one's going to look for a child that they don't believe was abducted. And it doesn't help when the missing child info isn't even correct (eye color).

Hopefully this post won't get deleted as victim blaming, because that's not what it is about. It's meant to point out the overall confusion involved in the situation that is not being cleared up by ANY source.

So frustrating.

Exactly MzOpinion8d, If something doesn't sound right it's normally not right I'm afraid. MOO

 

[nervous_nellie]

Actually, I believe the dogs keep coming back to the campsite because Deorr's items were there but I need a professional's opinion.

I asked this question of Sarx in the last thread...and honestly I can not remember what they told me :blushing:... I cant go and look right now, but if you seach for Sarx in the last thread Im sure you will find it...

 

[SeriouslySearching]

BBM. What facts?

1. DeOrr Kunz Jr. is 2 1/2 years old.
2. He was reported to be missing from a campsite where his Great Grandfather, IR, his father, and mother were at the time.
3. Mother, Jessica Mitchell, stated he had been missing an hour when the 911 call was placed.
4. Sheriff's office responded with help from other agencies to search for DeOrr.
5. After several searches over the same area, the Sheriff declares there is not a trace of DeOrr in or near the campgrounds or water.
6. Searches are scaled back and other avenues of investigation are pursued including the comment from the Sheriff about having the drones take aerial shots to possibly be used later in court.
7. Mom and dad blame GGF and friend.
8. GGF and friend blame mom and dad.
9. There are conflicting statements, but we can't get into those.
10. DeOrr's blanket he never went anywhere without was in the truck.

Then there are many things we cannot discuss at this time, but will come into play later.

 

[Mickshawn]

I agree there is a predator.. but it has 2 legs not 4. JMO

~~My "gut" feeling, as well.

 

[persimmon]

Dad drives a truck for a living? Does anyone remember in the long video interview that dad saying something to the effect that the rumors were saying his boss wanted him back at work or something about his boss.. what did that have to do with anything? i thought that was out of context.. anyone? I cant find the video..

I also thought it was not important to the topic at hand. When asked about rumors they wanted to address I felt he was discussing rumors within their circle if friends. As such, it has no bearing on the case of his missing child and seems like it should be inconsequential given the tragedy at hand.

 

[Lizzzard]

I'm just using your comment as a launching point.

I can't speak for anyone else, but my lion theory isn't based at all on it being a hotbed of activity. I have two reasons; context and a young lion. Young lions who are freshly kicked out of the "nest" are wandering looking for their own territory and struggling to survive on their own for the first time. It's a desperate and dangerous time for them wherein they'd behave in ways that a "typical" mature lion would not (approaching humans for instance).

Regarding context we have a child who suddenly vanished without a trace in the isolated and remote wilderness (not a suburban back yard). I think a predator is a logical conclusion. LE has gone on record as having not ruled it out also. I do think he's lost and just not been found, however, my next close guess is a predator.

As far as evidence goes, there's no evidence of anything at all that we've been told so either we aren't being told everything (highly likely) or there's no more evidence for an abduction or lost child as there is for a predator. Every single theory in this thread is based on zero evidence.

BBM-This is one point on lions which we can certainly agree on!

It's no secret that my assumption has been that a lion being responsible for the initial disappearance is highly improbable, BUT if a lion was the reason he disappeared, it would most likely be a young, desperate cat that would probably be small and underweight. One reason is because, once again, this is the territory of an active wolf pack. Only low man in lion dominance would inherit that bit of ground! I recently spoke to a FWP guy who specializes in human/predator conflict (ie "I have a bear in my garage" or "That lion is back on my porch again") and he said that if he's sees a big, healthy male roaming a rural neighborhood at night, he doesn't give it much thought unless he gets follow up complaints. If, however, the lion he sees is young and skinny, he almost always elects to "remove" the animal because they are far more dangerous.


Still, even a young lion is likely not the culprit for all the reasons I mentioned in my GINORMOUS post. I believe there would still be evidence.

If a lion DOES end up being involved, I would guess it would only be if DeOrr was taken and left (dead or alive) somewhere far, far away from camp, outside of the search area.

 

[wendybtn]

:Welcome1:

If you can still edit it, you can add the "end quote" by typing whats at the bottom of all quotes which is a left block quote, followed by slash, followed by QUOTE, followed by right block quote.

I would type it but it wont let me type it because it is looking for the top part...LOL

I may be able to do it with spaces in wrong spot though. it looks like this....

[ / QUOTE ] without any spaces.

You would put that at the end of the part you were quoting

Quoted the wrong post, I see. A post near yours was saying that Deorr Jr's Grandpa that he, mom, and dad live with was also named Deorr, but he is not. I see this mix-up in this cast of characters about every 5-10 pages throughout all the threads in this case.

Deorr Sr. is the father of the missing 2 year old. Deorr Jr. is the missing two year old. Deorr Sr, Deorr Jr, and Jessica Mitchell live with Deorr Sr' s father. The grandpa they live with is Mr. Kunz but not named Deorr, or not referred to any where as Deorr, or he would be Sr, and little 2 year old Deorr Jr would be the III.

 

[IDTater]

Does anyone else feel like we should all get credit for a Mountain Lion 101 course? :thinking:

Lizzzard and ILOKAL both contributed so much good information in this thread, in addition to the other posters who have previously contributed their knowledge about big predators. As I read and mull over this case, I find that each day brings me a new favorite theory to settle on. I've appreciated reading all of the info and considering the wild animal angle again.

It's also nice to "talk" with other people who are as desperate as I am to know what happened to this sweet boy.

 

[starfire]

Deorr Sr. is the father of the missing 2 year old. Deorr Jr. is the missing two year old. Deorr Sr, Deorr Jr, and Jessica Mitchell live with Deorr Sr' s father. The grandpa they live with is Mr. Kunz but not named Deorr, or not referred to any where as Deorr, or he would be Sr, and little 2 year old Deorr Jr would be the III.

Little Deorr's name is Deorr Jay Kunz. He is not really a junior even though that is what he is called. His dad's middle name is Deorr and that is what he goes by -- but he is being referred to as Deorr Sr. The paternal grandfather of LITTLE Deorr (who wasn't camping) is also named Deorr, but I am not sure if that is his middle name or not. So there are indeed 3 Deorrs involved.

Here is an article confirming that the paternal grandfather of LITTLE Deorr is also Deorr Kunz.

http://www.hlntv.com/article/2015/07/17/deorr-kunz-missing-family-fear-abducted

Yes, all this gets more confusing by the day!

 

[Mickshawn]

I asked this question of Sarx in the last thread...and honestly I can not remember what they told me :blushing:... I cant go and look right now, but if you seach for Sarx in the last thread Im sure you will find it...

~~I, too, asked about the dogs' behavior coming back to the campsite...Did they follow his trail awhile and it circled back? Or did they go off exploring finding nothing and so came back.....(It smells like him here and only here).

 

[Lizzzard]

Great post and I agree with you. I grew up with bobcats in my backyard and other dangerous predators roaming the woods.

OT/ I would like to see a photo of you in the Lady Gaga meat dress hanging around a campsite...while making s'mores and singing, "Kumbaya" please. Mood lightened.

Pssshhhtt... You'd be doing good to find a pic of me in any dress! anic: :doorhide:

 

[SeriouslySearching]

We don't contact the individuals directly involved in any case.

 

[SleuthMom]

We don't contact the individuals directly involved in any case.

Not sure what do you mean by "we don't contact"? I do not think anyone could tell another person here who they can or can't contact outside of this site.

<modsnip>

 

[Lizzzard]

Lizzard, are you a rambler too, lol? I try to put in a lot of paragraphs (incorrectly I'm sure) just to make my rambles easier on ye olde eyeballs. ;D

Yeah, a little bit... I try to resist, usually. And I do the mini-paragraph thing a lot too! :shame:

 

[rkf]

Another thing I just thought of with regard to the scent item given to the dog handlers is cigarette smoke. I've read in previous cases that that can screw up a scent item or scent trail. Does anyone know if any of the 4 adults smoke?

Sent from my SPH-L710 using Tapatalk

I saw a photo of DeOrr, Sr. smoking, but it is from February.

 

[Lizzzard]

Does anyone else feel like we should all get credit for a Mountain Lion 101 course? :thinking:

Lizzzard and ILOKAL both contributed so much good information in this thread, in addition to the other posters who have previously contributed their knowledge about big predators. As I read and mull over this case, I find that each day brings me a new favorite theory to settle on. I've appreciated reading all of the info and considering the wild animal angle again.

It's also nice to "talk" with other people who are as desperate as I am to know what happened to this sweet boy.

Yeeeah, sorry about that..

So, would now not be a good time to mention that mountain lions don't store their prey in trees? I know that possibility was discussed at length in a previous thread but I forgot to mention it earlier.. Not a good time? Okay, I'll just leave this link right here and back away slowly..... http://leahyinstitute.org/?page_id=436


Other rumors also crop up repeatedly. One conspiracy type rumor is that DEC shot a mountain lion from a helicopter and secreted the body away while a second popular rumor claims that deer carcasses have been found dragged up onto tree limbs by mountain lions. Heaslip has quick answers for both. In the first case, hunting mountain lions by helicopter would be totally ineffective, especially in a heavily forested area like Rensselaer County. When mountain lions are hunted, the technique employed is to hunt them on foot using dogs to corner them in a tree where they can be shot. As for the second, Heaslip points out that mountain lions do not drag their prey up onto tree limbs. This behavior is typical of leopards in Africa.

 

[rkf]

Bringing this over from previous thread.

Transcript between the 7:00 and 8:00 minute marks which discusses the store.

Reporter: Is there any rumors that you've seen or anything you want to clear up, Jessica?

JM: I just . . . Somebody at the store, um, in Leadore, said, it was one of the ladies that had worked at the store said that they saw, um, a gentleman and a younger blonde boy matching our description of our son, really filthy, buying candy for him and he was just bawling, in a black truck. That is the only . . .

DK: Here's the problem.

JM: . . . other . . .

DK: My pickup truck's black.

JM: [indicating DK] He drives a black truck.

DK: As a family we went down to get some, to get a few things.

Reporter: So it could have been you?

JM: Earlier, it was earlier that day.

DK: It was me, but it, but they claim it was at 6:00 that evening and I, we, we still were with Search and Rescue until, what [turning to JM] a quarter till four?

JM: Yeah, from . . .

DK: We didn't never, we never . . . we haven't left the camp since 1:00 that afternoon. So it's just a lot of hearsay . . . and . . .

Reporter: Was anybody camping around you?

Sent from my SPH-L710 using Tapatalk

Sounds like he is trying to discredit the store clerk's sighting. "Hearsay"? He insists the clerk has the time wrong, but confirms she saw him and little Deorr (filthy and bawling?) There are a lot of black pick up trucks, so if he thinks his child has been abducted, why wouldn't he want to think someone else had his child at the store at 6 pm? It would be another way to think your child was alive, not drowned or snatched by a wild animal. Did LE ever show Deorr Sr a photo lineup for the store clerk, to see if he saw the same one who reported seeing him?

 

[bessie]

REMINDER: Websleuths does not condone its members becoming personally involved in cases by initiating contact with family members, law enforcement, or the media. This does not preclude responding to a request for volunteers, or utilizing proper channels to report valid information, i.e., "a tip", to law enforcement.

http://www.websleuths.com/forums/sh...iquette-amp-Information&p=8364858#post8364858

 

[ILOKAL]

There is vast information and accounts of attacks readily available about mountain lions. As with any topic, some say one thing and some say otherwise. E.g., one article referenced states that as long as a lion's kills fresh, it won't kill again. Yet, others clearly state that mountain lions often kill more prey they could consume. The example is given because no one set of mountain lion behavior fits all. Most strike from the rear but to all. Most pounce from the ground, but some from above. In reading on the subject it is important to match the size of the possible victim to the manner in which a lion would most likely attack and consume its prey. Although the diet of a lion usually is mule deer, white tail, elk, moose, sheep, goats, they also hunt smaller animals. IMO, a mountain lion would have no problem locating the neck of a small child. As far as wolves, they share the same territories as the lions and neither is an automatic victim of the other. Wolves often succumb to the attack of a mountain lion. Of course, either of us could go on and on giving examples and past attacks, but the point is there is no set rule as to how a mountain lion will attack. As far as the bikers, it is believed that one mountain biker was attacked when he stopped to repair his bike while another was attacked while riding. The missing teacher rides a dirt bike and also owns a cabin in the area where he went missing. I certainly haven't suggested that the dirt biker might have been attacked by a lion while riding.

As I have previously said, the only two scenarios that make sense to ME, in this case, are drowning or mountain lion.