Found Deceased IN - Abby & Libby - The Delphi Murders - #154 *Richard Allen Arrested*

[MissMalowe]

I woke up to see this on article. Guess where the sting took place? Indiana.

Indiana police arrest 20 suspects in child sex sting operation

A total of 20 suspects were arrested in Indiana after authorities executed a child sex sting operation. Investigators had posed as minors and agreed to meet the suspects.

www.foxnews.com

I am bad at maps, but was interested to see where Carroll County/Delphi, Indiana and the county/town mentioned in the article are in relation to one another...

ETA: Though I guess after reading the article again, maybe it doesn't much matter since the article mentioned a few of the men traveled from OTHER STATES.

 

[Yuletide]

I think he was lucky enough to only be seen by people he didn't know. I would think that if I met up with someone I saw somewhat regularly in a local store, I would at least think he looked familiar, even if I didn't know his name. I'm a bit surprised that nobody at least said that he looked like a guy who works at CVS. It makes me think that the descriptions for the sketches mainly came from people who didn't live in town, or at least didn't do much business in CVS.

MOO

My opinion is that Libby’s courageous, quick thinking video of bridge guy produced an image of a 40-50 year old man. The witness, who did an outstanding job on the eyes and nose, perhaps couldn’t determine an age because the person was covered up with clothes and a hat. Libby’s video trumped the other sketch of a younger looking man, and LE went with the other sketch. Heck of a good witness that produced that 2nd sketch.

 

[Elley Mae]

The sketch artist with ISP who drew the face, Master Trooper Taylor Bryant, told the Indianapolis Star the picture presented as being new Monday had in fact been drawn Feb. 17, 2017, three days after the bodies of the two girls were discovered.

'New' Delphi suspect sketch was drawn days after murders of 2 Indiana girls, artist says

The new face of the suspected killer behind the 2017 slayings of 2 girls in Indiana released to the public by officials on Monday was apparently sketched days after the victim's bodies were discovered.

www.foxnews.com

In vague terms, Bryant told the Star the image was based on the description of a man by a witness who reported seeing something they felt needed to be reported. The sketch is a "ballpark estimation of what the person looks like."

Asked why a sketch created in 2017 was only now being released -- as the centerpiece of a press conference -- a state police spokesperson told Fox News on Tuesday the agency is not commenting on investigative techniques.

…

The below statement has stood out.


Witness who reported seeing something they felt needed to be reported.
…

Was it just the description of the man witness saw? Or was it something he did or something about his appearance, knowing what time witness saw him would be interesting as it could have been after murders.


Jmo

 

[ChuckInHouston]

I don’t think the ‘younger sketch’ is another guy, I think it is RA. Only he witness who gave that description would know. The other sketch seems to clearly come from Libby’s footage of BG. It may seem muddy but they are doing the best they can, at that time they may have thought they were two people. I wonder if the witness that described the first sketch was asked if it was the same guy in Libby’s video.

Yes. Sketches are rarely completely accurate. We all remember things differently, and depending on how good a look you got at someone, your brain fills in the rest.
The second sketch was actually the 1st sketch, but was not initially released, because when comparing it to BG, it just didn't compute. What ever they found out in 2019, gave them reason to make sketch 2 two, or the original unreleased sketch the primary. Regardless, neither of them would have did me much good as to me, I only see vague similarities in RA and either of the sketches, and had I not already seen RA would never had just seen him in public and thought oh, bridge guy. I think too much thought has gone into these two sketches as they are only eye witness accounts, and none of them saw the bridge guy specifically on the bridge, so even from the beginning, I have always considered that either or both of the sketches could have been of completely random people who just happened to be in the park that day.

 

[twall]

I know this is off topic from the recent sex sting operation, but I am curious if anyone has seen this before, where a suspect needs to wear body armor (it sounds like what they are talking about in regards to “protective gear”) to protect them from the public?

IMO, it is likely there have been death threats against RA, not because of the sealing of the arrest warrant, but because he is suspected to be the killer of two children. I think the public, ( and especially local to the area) , are up in arms and there is concern for vigilante justice.

And I also believe that’s why there has been an emphasis on being innocent until proven guilty.To try and prevent someone from taking him out.

“The order also indicates Allen was, “clad in protective gear…to protect the Defendant from the public.”

Judge approves state protective custody for Delphi suspect citing ‘public’s blood lust’

CARROLL COUNTY, Ind. — Utilizing phrases such as, “blood lust,” “toxic,” and, “imminent danger,” Carroll County Circuit Judge Benjamin Diener ordered the Carroll County Sheriff to hand over custody…

fox59.com

“The order also indicates Allen was, “clad in protective gear…to protect the Defendant from the public.”

I think this line was strange to include because at the time of the hearing the judge referenced RA had yet to be named publicly so who did he need to be protected from? JMO

Also, it is pretty much SOP for a high profile defendant to wear a bullet resistant vest while exposed to the public but again at the time this occured no one publicly knew about him so what is the judge going on about?

 

[Silver_produce0]

At times, they have been unwilling to confirm that BG was the same as the the voice on Libby's recording who was the same as the murderer. They stated that the voice captured on the phone was the person responsible for Abby and Libby's murders, but they did not confirm that was the man pictured on the bridge. I suspect that they have a strong reason to believe that there was more than one perp involved.

RSBM. I believe they did state that BG is the voice heard on the recording, saying both “guys” and “down the hill” and is the killer, during the April 2019 PC. HOWEVER, they may have contradicted that in later interviews. At this point, who knows.

Unrelated to your post, I’m interested in Murder Sheet discussing whether or not their previous reporting, and whatever they were told but haven’t told us, aligns with this arrest. Just a simple yes or no would suffice.

 

[taylorss]

Why did they waste anyones time with those absurd sketches when they could’ve been covering the town with LITERAL PHOTOGRAPHS OF THE MURDERER

 

[taylorss]

He doesn't seem to have representation yet, but he has 20 days from his arraignment to acquire one so the clock is ticking. Otherwise, he will be appointed one. If her were innocent he would likely have retained an attorney right away. My guess is that he's just starting to recognize his new reality and feels like the trapped murderer he is, jmoo. I do think he has received the PC document so he knows what they know, at least I hope so.

I've had a nagging feeling since this came to light that LE may not be fully prepared and that gives me anxiety. Jmo, but I think KL provided some names and from there they began searches. I don't think RA shared what he did, but I may be wrong. I wish we knew if or how the two were connected. I really hope they are getting all their ts crossed etc and finding what they need because my nag feels like something is off. I hope a lack of facts and solid evidence aren't driving the motion to keep the PC sealed. I understand the rush to arrest but hope it doesn't cause issues. I also wonder how many additional arrests might effect RAs case? Lots of questions and uncertainty atm. Still seems unreal that we finally have a name and face. Hard to believe he managed to escape their radar despite the similarities and known facts.

Fingers crossed there are no problems with legalities because that will ensure he never experiences the peace and joy of freedom again. I don't need to know all the details so I hope he takes a deal. Life in exchange for no dp. No matter how he slices it, he will never sleep outside a cell again. He's a fly trapped in a web of his own making. Makes me smile.

All jmoo

everything we’ve heard about RMA’s response to being discovered seems to describe a disconnected head-in-sand denialism … house searched 10/16 then he went about his daily business til taken into custody 10/26 … no atty a week+ later … did he never give a moments thought to how it might go down if he was caught?!!!

 

[Tssiemer]

Why did they waste anyones time with those absurd sketches when they could’ve been covering the town with LITERAL PHOTOGRAPHS OF THE MURDERER

I don't know that ANY image would have helped get him sooner. People interacted with him every day, not only his visual image but his voice as well. I'm not sure I would have suggested him. Have you seen how some of these people out here straight up TRANSFORM into other people with makeup or lighting or changing poses with their face.. I don't believe I truly know what ANYONE looks like. Someone ask me to describe my husband I have been with for almost 20 years to be drawn and I'm pretty sure it would look like Mr. Bean.

 

[Dotta]

Why did they waste anyones time with those absurd sketches when they could’ve been covering the town with LITERAL PHOTOGRAPHS OF THE MURDERER

And also make voice comparisons of all male locals in a certain age group.

That sniffing dogs were not used at the scene (as a poster mentioned in this thread) is another grave error.
Moo

 

[Silver_produce0]

I think too much thought has gone into these two sketches as they are only eye witness accounts, and none of them saw the bridge guy specifically on the bridge, so even from the beginning, I have always considered that either or both of the sketches could have been of completely random people who just happened to be in the park that day.

RSBM. Between what has been reported on here <modsnip>, I thought we had a good idea of all the people at the trails that day. Some were identified by media <modsnip>. I thought maybe we had 8-10 people there. <modsnip>

I’m just wondering how many more people were at the trails that day that we don’t know about because they didn’t see anything, aren’t thought to be important, or just haven’t been woven in to the narrative.

 

[AngTxGal]

Thanks for explaining further/giving more context. You're correct, maybe we are going a bit off the tracks or down another rabbit hole- despite that, I think our discussion still relates a great deal to this case, but if not & our posts are removed, my inbox is always open and I'm willing to continue the discussion

To be clear, once again, my original post was in reference to RAs probable cause affidavit, not photos- However I thought your previous post regarding photos/privacy/dignity etc was really interesting and definitely worth discussing.



I agree there should be some level of privacy or choice/personal decision. I actually thought about our discussion quite a bit last night and what I would want if I were unfortunate enough to be a victim. It's unfortunate there is not a way to know this answer ahead of time for every single person.

If I was a surviving victim, I couldn't come up with a definitive answer. I've gone back and forth a lot while pondering that one. I need to sit and think longer on this one before I can give you an answer, honestly.

If Im a deceased victim, I would want absolutely everything out there. I don't think it would shred me of my dignity, or lessen the respect others who knew me had for me or that it would be viewed as indecency on my part.

What I do think, is that it would shred my perpetrator of any human qualities, any respect those close to them had would be gone, and any feelings of indecency would certainly be directed towards them. I would want their mother & father, all family members, their friends, neighbors, coworkers, fellow residents of their town/city and anyone out there to see what evil, despicable things they had done that they thought "nice little Johnny/Jane" could never do. Pictures would drive that home more than any descriptions or summaries.

The perp would be stripped of everything more than I, the victim. My opinion.

I do not know how a DA decides what to use during a trial.
I’m a mom of two teens, if a DA chose to openly display gruesome images of deceased teen girls and I could not clearly see the need or purpose- I would have issues.
If it were my child and there was another way to solidify conviction- make that choice.
At some point when the trial is over these families of Abby and Libby should be able to grieve, heal, and move forward. How could they if images of these murdered children suddenly became commonplace around the world?
We know there are monsters out there that would do exactly that

I know this is off topic from the recent sex sting operation, but I am curious if anyone has seen this before, where a suspect needs to wear body armor (it sounds like what they are talking about in regards to “protective gear”) to protect them from the public?

IMO, it is likely there have been death threats against RA, not because of the sealing of the arrest warrant, but because he is suspected to be the killer of two children. I think the public, ( and especially local to the area) , are up in arms and there is concern for vigilante justice.

I also believe that’s why there has been an emphasis on being innocent until proven guilty. To try and prevent someone from taking him out.

“The order also indicates Allen was, “clad in protective gear…to protect the Defendant from the public.”

Judge approves state protective custody for Delphi suspect citing ‘public’s blood lust’

CARROLL COUNTY, Ind. — Utilizing phrases such as, “blood lust,” “toxic,” and, “imminent danger,” Carroll County Circuit Judge Benjamin Diener ordered the Carroll County Sheriff to hand over custody…

fox59.com

I’m trying to remember a suspect wearing body armor, I can’t remember any. We’ve all seen them protected from themselves in turtle suits, but not body armor.
For me, I can’t blame the public, especially in and around the community of Delphi. He walked among them for over five years. That is brazen, insulting, and sick

 

[AngTxGal]

RSBM. Between what has been reported on here <modsnip> I thought we had a good idea of all the people at the trails that day. Some were identified by media <modsnip> I thought maybe we had 8-10 people there <modsnip>

I’m just wondering how many more people were at the trails that day that we don’t know about because they didn’t see anything, aren’t thought to be important, or just haven’t been woven in to the narrative.

I agree, and wonder if RA walked there through the woods from his home, and ended up to the west near the Freedom Bridge where he was seen before going back to the other end southeast end, wouldn’t several people have seen him?
His familiarity with the area may mean he didn‘t walk on the path but took a trail through the woods?
When I look at the list of 8-10, this means one of them gave the sketch of the younger looking guy. It is possible witnesses are not listed- to maintain their privacy and safety?

 

[raja]

I have always thought that the first released sketch was done from the BG video. IMO. The statement that he may appear younger was related to the second released sketch as appearing younger than BG actually is. If that makes any sense.

 

[Betty P]

I woke up to see this on article. Guess where the sting took place? Indiana.

Indiana police arrest 20 suspects in child sex sting operation

A total of 20 suspects were arrested in Indiana after authorities executed a child sex sting operation. Investigators had posed as minors and agreed to meet the suspects.

www.foxnews.com

Although I am not sure where I personally stand, I have believed from the beginning that the task force doesn't think that BG acted alone. Throughout the years, they have have always left the door open to multiple perps. At times, they have been unwilling to confirm that BG was the same as the the voice on Libby's recording who was the same as the murderer. They stated that the voice captured on the phone was the person responsible for Abby and Libby's murders, but they did not confirm that was the man pictured on the bridge. I suspect that they have a strong reason to believe that there was more than one perp involved.

And I also suspect that this is why there is a confusion around the two sketches; they depict two different people, and yet the perp will be a combination of the two sketches. They have reason to believe that BG did not act alone IMO.

Assume the critical evidence needed to arrest Allen came from investigation into online sex predator groups. What LE uncovered included many other perps. LE had to keep things quiet about RA until they could lure in and arrest the rest of these creeps. Otherwise, they would have scattered from their online group. Good work! There are probably still a lot of these human cockroaches in the dark corners of the internet, but at least they took a few more off the street & internet.

 

[AngTxGal]

Yes. Sketches are rarely completely accurate. We all remember things differently, and depending on how good a look you got at someone, your brain fills in the rest.
The second sketch was actually the 1st sketch, but was not initially released, because when comparing it to BG, it just didn't compute. What ever they found out in 2019, gave them reason to make sketch 2 two, or the original unreleased sketch the primary. Regardless, neither of them would have did me much good as to me, I only see vague similarities in RA and either of the sketches, and had I not already seen RA would never had just seen him in public and thought oh, bridge guy. I think too much thought has gone into these two sketches as they are only eye witness accounts, and none of them saw the bridge guy specifically on the bridge, so even from the beginning, I have always considered that either or both of the sketches could have been of completely random people who just happened to be in the park that day.

Agree, and the thought in the beginning was it would be quickly solved, especially with the witnesses and sketches and then video and voice recordings. It seemed LE was confident the small community would quickly recognize him as a local. That didn’t happen.
The reality is the guy on the bridge looks like random Joe Blow guy to most people. I can name about 20 guys here that look as much like the sketches as RA does. Everyone filtered what they saw in the BG video with his actions- a monster. When they walked around in their community they either had to see monsters everywhere and go completely insane, or not see monsters anywhere so they could feel safe in daily life. Just my opinion, I cannot imagine.
As tragic as this is, it is an interesting case for understanding how a small community may handle horrendous crime and a local perp at large.

 

[Dotta]

I have always thought that the first released sketch was done from the BG video. IMO. The statement that he may appear younger was related to the second released sketch as appearing younger than BG actually is. If that makes any sense.

The real picture - the whole silhouette and the clothes he wore that day - may have jogged somebody's memory.

Not a generic sketch.

The murdered girl gave LE treasure - the picture and voice of an (alleged) killer.

Moo

 

[TL4S]

I like DC. His position is precarious and when he speaks, all LE agencies collectively have to trust him not to say the wrong thing. When I describe what he says as "muddy," I don't mean that in a negative way. Being muddy doesn't make him a bad spokesperson, IMO, but a good one. He gives us something more than "no comment" on things he really can't comment on. And almost 6 years later, we're still discussing his comments, even if out of frustration, which helps keep the case in the forefront. I think that shows his effectiveness. JMO.

 

[AngTxGal]

The sketch artist with ISP who drew the face, Master Trooper Taylor Bryant, told the Indianapolis Star the picture presented as being new Monday had in fact been drawn Feb. 17, 2017, three days after the bodies of the two girls were discovered.

'New' Delphi suspect sketch was drawn days after murders of 2 Indiana girls, artist says

The new face of the suspected killer behind the 2017 slayings of 2 girls in Indiana released to the public by officials on Monday was apparently sketched days after the victim's bodies were discovered.

www.foxnews.com

In vague terms, Bryant told the Star the image was based on the description of a man by a witness who reported seeing something they felt needed to be reported. The sketch is a "ballpark estimation of what the person looks like."

Asked why a sketch created in 2017 was only now being released -- as the centerpiece of a press conference -- a state police spokesperson told Fox News on Tuesday the agency is not commenting on investigative techniques.

…

The below statement has stood out.


Witness who reported seeing something they felt needed to be reported.
…

Was it just the description of the man witness saw? Or was it something he did or something about his appearance, knowing what time witness saw him would be interesting as it could have been after murders.


Jmo

Very interesting! And we aren’t told how far away the witnesses were from the man or the length of time they had a look. Did they speak to him, did he speak to them?
What actions was he taking that made someone think what they saw needed to be reported? Where was he when he was seen And what time during the day?
Lots of questions, hard to be patient but I can if it means Justice for Abby and Libby

 

[taylorss]

I don't know that ANY image would have helped get him sooner. People interacted with him every day, not only his visual image but his voice as well. I'm not sure I would have suggested him. Have you seen how some of these people out here straight up TRANSFORM into other people with makeup or lighting or changing poses with their face.. I don't believe I truly know what ANYONE looks like. Someone ask me to describe my husband I have been with for almost 20 years to be drawn and I'm pretty sure it would look like Mr. Bean.

I don't know that ANY image would have helped get him sooner. People interacted with him every day, not only his visual image but his voice as well. I'm not sure I would have suggested him. Have you seen how some of these people out here straight up TRANSFORM into other people with makeup or lighting or changing poses with their face.. I don't believe I truly know what ANYONE looks like. Someone ask me to describe my husband I have been with for almost 20 years to be drawn and I'm pretty sure it would look like Mr. Bean.

I tried to post about this earlier but I don’t know how to link pics properly … now that we know who BG is, take another looks at the actual pics, the two screengrabs from dear sweet brave Libby’s phone vid.

In one of them RMA’s distinct size & frame are clearly visible - uncommonly short legs & shoulders sloped down like a ski trail IMO

In the other one his body looks more normal but the shape & basic characteristics of his face are right there IMO

Looking at the pics from a few steps back makes these recognizable characteristics even more clear - once your eye is no longer struggling with pixel distortion but instead reverting to standard approximations as it always does to make out something at a distance.

Now we know that those ridiculous sketches, esp YBG, were plastered all over the town, including in CVS & other spots RMA frequented.

IMO if these two literal photographs of the killer taken as the crime commenced had been hanging everywhere, there’s a good chance eventually someone would’ve spotted RMA near one or both of them & had a shock of recognition. (To say nothing for the voice, as you mentioned - it is immediately recognizable as RMA, in case anyone wanted to double check what they thought they saw!)

Meanwhile recognition was never ever going to happen with the sketches - who even could follow which one was “current,” they were not the same person etc. Trying to recognize RMA from these sketches is at best like looking at pics of two adults & trying to pick out who is their child from a group of 1500 options IMO

This is just mystifying to me…. what on earth went wrong with the decision-making here.