IN - Abby & Libby - The Delphi Murders - Richard Allen Arrested - #165

[MistyWaters]

this is my first time posting here but i made an account to ask about this possible inconsistency, not sure if i’m just misremembering. when reading that document everyone is discussing, it says that “Abby was dressed in Libby’s sweatshirt and jeans”, but wasn’t Libby wearing sweatpants that day? and didn’t the sweatshirt belong to Abby?

Welcome to the tread, though unfortunately this case is becoming somewhat of a gong show.

This is what each were reported to have been wearing and you’ve a great memory, appears you’re right, Libby wasn’t wearing a sweatshirt and jeans. That’s what Abby had on at the time of her disappearance so why the defence would suggest Abby was dressed in Libby’s clothes is somewhat puzzling.

MISSING: Two 13-year-old Carroll Co. girls

Two 13-year-old Carroll County girls are missing after they were dropped off to go hiking Monday afternoon.

www.wrtv.com

Libby is described as standing 5'4" tall with a heavy build. She has blonde shoulder-length hair and blue eyes. She was last seen wearing a tie-dyed shirt with fringe at the bottom, gray sweat pants with unknown black lettering and black Nike shoes.

Abby is described as standing 5'4" tall with a small build, medium length blonde hair and hazel eyes. She was last seen wearing a gray zip-up sweatshirt with a burgundy T-shirt underneath and blue jeans.

 

[MistyWaters]

In my opinion, this defense filing meets the threshold for libel. If I were one of the named persons in this document, I would have already talked to my personal attorney. I have never heard such drivel actually filed in a court of law. They must be smoking some powerful stuff. The thing that makes my blood boil is the descriptions of Abby and Libby. There is no need to put that out in public.

It might happen -

'Delphi killer' lawyers claim teens were 'ritualistically sacrificed'

Unsealed legal documents sensationally claim that the two teenagers were killed by members of a pagan Norse religion and white nationalist group called 'Odinism.'

www.dailymail.co.uk

“……When contacted by DailyMail.com the man in question said in a statement: 'If there are any lawyers out there that would like to help me, pro bono, go after the defense for the pain and anguish they have caused me and my family, that would be awesome.'…”

 

[steeltowngirl]

I hope he does sue them.

This SODDI-ODI stuff is a load of cr*p.

jmo

 

[photographer4]

I will say that I'm almost at the end of the document now, and though I have questioned its legitimacy and called bollocks on it, if it is real, then it is a very plausible idea as to what could have happened. Interestingly, the authors are doing what defence is meant to do: draw attention away from their client and onto literally anyone else. They've done this rather well! Almost no mention of Rick aside the context for his "confession" to his wife, and the state of his situation in the correctional facility. No DNA. No digital evidence.

Do they outline HOW police arrived at Rick as their man??? I'll finish reading and be back.

They do - and its 7 points. Two diff witnesses saw two different men one on the bridge, one walking towards CPS building. Rick puts himself there but says he left by or at 1:30pm.

Ok.. why no mention of the single bullet found that supposedly matches the gun found at Rick's home?
That was a crucial point in the PA by Prosecution. Is that their "smoking gun"? This document doesn't even address this point. We are told no DNA, no digital evidence against Rick. Ok, so that's something. But they allege he's at home whilst this murder is happening. Right. How does the defence know this? How did they confirm this? Funny, we're not told.

It sounds like the only reason RA was picked up by police is because he put himself there *around* time of the crime, and had a gun that may have matched a bullet at the scene. That cannot be all there is to this, surely! I'm flummoxed that the witness described a man muddied and in a tan or light coat. Not blue coat, not bloody - what the what??

The defence has done a great job of casting aspersions towards the men in the Odin Group. I'd really like to know just what happened. Its a well thought out defence that does what it is meant to do - create reasonable doubt. The prosecution had better have a heck of a lot more than witness statements that were made up or embellished, and a bullet!

 

[Bbgiraffe]

Someone earlier in the thread mention no connection between RA and KAK. Is KAK or TK involved in this supposed white nationalist cult or what? I don't understand the connection here at all. Also agree with the person who questioned whether "white nationalists" would "sacrifice" two white teen girls, which they would view as the future of the race. Doesn't make sense to me.

 

[StarryStarryNight]

this is my first time posting here but i made an account to ask about this possible inconsistency, not sure if i’m just misremembering. when reading that document everyone is discussing, it says that “Abby was dressed in Libby’s sweatshirt and jeans”, but wasn’t Libby wearing sweatpants that day? and didn’t the sweatshirt belong to Abby?

Welcome!
I noted that too when I read it. Abby had on jeans, Libby did not.

 

[O.Incandenza]

While the focus is understandably on the Odinite theory and the crime scene details, I have to say I really find Part III of the motion troubling.

If what they describe there is true, than it could be a potentially huge problem for the search warrant. You're not required to discuss alternate suspects in a SW affidavit, you just need to lay out the evidence that establishes probable cause that specified items related to a crime are going to be found at the location to be searched. So, IMO, the Odinite stuff just isn't very relevant to a Franks Hearing.

However, you're not allowed to mislead the judge about the evidence in the affidavit. And you're supposed to include anything that undermines it so that the judge can make an informed decision. Leaving out the witness's non-matching description of the man on the bridge, her non-matching description of the car in the CPS parking lot and altering the 2nd witness's description of the man she saw walking along the road seems pretty bad to me. Possibly throw-the-warrant-out bad, depending on the judge.

 

[photographer4]

Welcome to the tread, though unfortunately this case is becoming somewhat of a gong show.

This is what each were reported to have been wearing and you’ve a great memory, appears you’re right, Libby wasn’t wearing a sweatshirt and jeans. That’s what Abby had on at the time of her disappearance so why the defence would suggest Abby was dressed in Libby’s clothes is somewhat puzzling.

MISSING: Two 13-year-old Carroll Co. girls

Two 13-year-old Carroll County girls are missing after they were dropped off to go hiking Monday afternoon.

www.wrtv.com

Libby is described as standing 5'4" tall with a heavy build. She has blonde shoulder-length hair and blue eyes. She was last seen wearing a tie-dyed shirt with fringe at the bottom, gray sweat pants with unknown black lettering and black Nike shoes.

Abby is described as standing 5'4" tall with a small build, medium length blonde hair and hazel eyes. She was last seen wearing a gray zip-up sweatshirt with a burgundy T-shirt underneath and blue jeans.

Ok let’s go further. The defence asserts Rick isn’t a super tall guy. They talk about the difficulty he would have had crossing the creek whilst controlling the kids on his own and the depth of the water.

The clothes mentioned by the defence that Abby was found wearing are clean according to them and their scene photos! No blood or very little blood. But CLEAN. How is this possible then IF the girls crossed the river whilst dressed?? Wouldn’t the found items be wet? Muddy? Dirty?

The prosecution hasn’t alleged the kids crossed the creek of their own accord (to escape or under duress) that I know of. Police have said before NO one has it right (when discussing social media theories about how the kids ended up where they were found). So why then does the Defence make the assertion they would have had to cross the creek, which was cold and would have been hard, but then tell us Abby was dressed in clean clothes???

This point makes me wonder: were they undressed before a crossing? Was there a walk or run through the creek?? Was she found wearing her friend’s clothes? If not, whose were they?

 

[photographer4]

It might happen -

'Delphi killer' lawyers claim teens were 'ritualistically sacrificed'

Unsealed legal documents sensationally claim that the two teenagers were killed by members of a pagan Norse religion and white nationalist group called 'Odinism.'

www.dailymail.co.uk

“……When contacted by DailyMail.com the man in question said in a statement: 'If there are any lawyers out there that would like to help me, pro bono, go after the defense for the pain and anguish they have caused me and my family, that would be awesome.'…”

Isn’t it Libel if the it’s untrue? If the assertions can be proven, would someone named in this doc have a legal leg to stand on?

 

[Charlot123]

- I feel immensely sorry for the girls' mothers, because the whole case, once again, turned into a livestream from Bedlam. They deserve better.

- I am glad that Snorri Sturluson, Icelandic poet and politician, has been dead for nine centuries. It is doubtful that he could keep it together, knowing that his beautiful Norse sagas, one day, would inspire Midwestern bikers and criminal defenders alike.

- Personally, i have mixed feelings about RA, but even if he is the killer, he still does not deserve looking like victims of show trials. Plus, while I believe that one person could "have the dexterity", in his current state RA appears to have none.

- I sometimes wonder if there was personal element in the case, but ritual sacrifices in Indiana is too much. However, personal involvement could be easily masked under ritual sacrifices or medieval superstitions.

- Lastly, all this blood, and they couldn't find a tad of killer's DNA?

 

[Charlot123]

I understand where you are coming from and there is no doubt LE made mistakes early in this investigation but I don’t know, there has been so much work and pressure and commitment to get it right in the end that I can’t believe that they’d go forward with RA if they weren’t pretty much certain and had their case air tight.

They made mistakes driven by own zest for popularity and promotion. Now, many of early participants have retired, and the new people are under pressure to close the case. By the end, photo of cops in the river made it all look so strange, I think they were happy when they found out about RA. I think that LE honestly believed it was him. It is not an airtight case. Most of all, I am concerned that if they are wrong, someone very sick is still roaming free.

 

[kittythehare]

 

[cuecard]

They made mistakes driven by own zest for popularity and promotion. Now, many of early participants have retired, and the new people are under pressure to close the case. By the end, photo of cops in the river made it all look so strange, I think they were happy when they found out about RA. I think that LE honestly believed it was him. It is not an airtight case. Most of all, I am concerned that if they are wrong, someone very sick is still roaming free.

I think initially they were just in over their heads regarding a double murder and unfortunately it lead to early mistakes. We don’t know that it is not an airtight case though, barring the PCA we haven’t heard anything else really from the prosecution. The PCA is just one document - they’ll have more or they’ll probably need much more.

 

[TL4S]

Ok let’s go further. The defence asserts Rick isn’t a super tall guy. They talk about the difficulty he would have had crossing the creek whilst controlling the kids on his own and the depth of the water.

The clothes mentioned by the defence that Abby was found wearing are clean according to them and their scene photos! No blood or very little blood. But CLEAN. How is this possible then IF the girls crossed the river whilst dressed?? Wouldn’t the found items be wet? Muddy? Dirty?

The prosecution hasn’t alleged the kids crossed the creek of their own accord (to escape or under duress) that I know of. Police have said before NO one has it right (when discussing social media theories about how the kids ended up where they were found). So why then does the Defence make the assertion they would have had to cross the creek, which was cold and would have been hard, but then tell us Abby was dressed in clean clothes???

This point makes me wonder: were they undressed before a crossing? Was there a walk or run through the creek?? Was she found wearing her friend’s clothes? If not, whose were they?

I've suspected for awhile that more happened on the south side of the creek, especially if we believe JH that none of the reenactments are accurate. The reenactments all involve BG and the girls walking down the hill and immediately across the creek, whether by leading or running.

Imo, the idea of their clothes being removed on the south side, then carried across, makes sense. Maybe to control them better, or because of other reasons the crime had to be moved? Idk.

 

[iamshadow21]

I woke up this morning and thought, 'huh, that dream was nuts'. And then I loaded WS and it crashed down that no, this is a thing that is genuinely happening.

It makes me afraid that we aren't just going to be waiting years for justice for Abby and Libby. We're going to be waiting forever, while the defense trots out supposed cultists for the public to ogle and spins their intricate, incredulous conspiracy theories to distract and divert attention from their client. It's like something from the X-Files.

MOO

 

[Schatz]

I woke up this morning and thought, 'huh, that dream was nuts'. And then I loaded WS and it crashed down that no, this is a thing that is genuinely happening.

It makes me afraid that we aren't just going to be waiting years for justice for Abby and Libby. We're going to be waiting forever, while the defense trots out supposed cultists for the public to ogle and spins their intricate, incredulous conspiracy theories to distract and divert attention from their client. It's like something from the X-Files.

MOO

I just finally finished all 136 pages, and MOO it is very compelling, especially given Indiana's Klan history. I wonder if the defense is still trying to catch up, though, to wherever the FBI landed because I cannot believe they just left all this alone. Indeed, it appears the defense is still receiving mounds of discovery. But I can certainly understand RA's attorneys wanting him moved out of Westville in emergency fashion, and I certainly hope RA was moved before this was released.

 

[iamshadow21]

I just finally finished all 136 pages, and MOO it is very compelling, especially given Indiana's Klan history. I wonder if the defense is still trying to catch up, though, to wherever the FBI landed because I cannot believe they just left all this alone. Indeed, it appears the defense is still receiving mounds of discovery. But I can certainly understand RA's attorneys wanting him moved out of Westville in emergency fashion, and I certainly hope RA was moved before this was released.

RA is only in (greater than usual for prison for a man accused of the crimes he is) danger in his current placement if an Odinist conspiracy is real. And I can't believe I just had to type that here on WS.

MOO

 

[Charlot123]

I think initially they were just in over their heads regarding a double murder and unfortunately it lead to early mistakes. We don’t know that it is not an airtight case though, barring the PCA we haven’t heard anything else really from the prosecution. The PCA is just one document - they’ll have more or they’ll probably need much more.

They were over their heads and asked for help from Georgia BI too late. It is easy to criticize post factum, though, as everyone is under own pressure. I respect everyone who's still following this case, btw.

 

[Sjöberg]

Weirdest legal document I’ve ever read.

It is odd, as if someone was keeping a running log of each and every internet rumour through the passage of time and subsequently turned it over to RA’s defence. Infact for the most part, it seems the basis of the narrative is still only based on rumour yet the defence positions it as if it’s all factual.

Honestly, I thought it reads like something written by AI with the input of court documents and macabre teens on Reddit. MOO

 

[thatssoamy]

My heart breaks for the girls families who for the first time might be finding out details of the crime scene and the girls.