Found Deceased IN - Abigail (Abby) Williams, 13, & Liberty (Libby) German, 14, The Delphi Murders 13 Feb 2017 #105

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No it's not said:
I am wondering, if this was a by chance encounter and the killer took the opportunity to attack and murder the girls. What would I expect to see? I would expect to see lots of chaos, lots of DNA and most likely no witnesses or witnesses, who saw a wet, crazy looking frenzy acting guy, possibly running like hell. The CS would not be on the other side of the creek. He would have killed the girls in the area between the private road and the creek bed.

I am wondering, if this was planned, but the girls had not been specifically targeted, what would I expect to see?
I would expect a certain degree of chaos, lots of DNA due to the fact, that the killer had to overpower 2 victims, possible defense wounds on the victims, not much staging of the CS or posing of the victims due to time constraints ( who checks the time, when committing such a horrible crime..?? I would think more like" in and out"). The killer may have forced the victims to cross the creek, especially if one of the victims was already diseased or had been drowned. The creek would also be a barrier for searchers. There may be witnesses, who saw the killer.

I am wondering, if the girl(s) were targeted and if the crime scene had been staged to look like a serial killer committed the murders. What would I expect to see if this was true? A tight timeline of events, witnesses to possibly see one person or more, who were not the killer, victim posing, possible signature, gruesome crime scene, no /or very little DNA of the killer at the CS/on the victims, possible accomplices. The victims may have been drowned in the creek and then may have disposed at the crime scene in a very brutal way to make it look like something it was not.

ALL IMO

Just wondering..

-Nin
Click to expand...

Great thinking Nin , as always.

I go with your nr 3 theory.

I have posted a very similar theory a couple of times,
latest May 6th, 2019, here is a copy:

My theory (one of them):
The killer's motive was to silence one of the girls, I believe Libby, bc she knew something about him that would ruin his life if it came out, and that Libby may have threatened to tell what she knew. Abby was just at the wrong place at the wrong time and the killer choose to kill her too bc she was wittness.

The killers MO was that of a lust killer, possibly sexual motivated, and that he choose that MO to make the murders look as something else than it actually was in order to misslead police.

How would the killer know that Libby was on the bridge?
If the killer was facebook friend and/or Instagram follower of Libby maybe Libby might have posted on FB (privat message to someone?) or snapchat on Instagram something about going to the bridge so he would know.
Or he was stalking Libby, waiting in a car close to her home and followed when Libby and Abby left Libby's home by car ?

Also, we know that there was several in Libby's close circles that knew ( not that I suspect any of her family members) that the girls was going to the bridge, maybe one them have mentioned something to someone, by phone, or social media like ; " -Ok, but I just have to bring my sister (or; my daughter etc) to/from the bridge then I have time to *advertiser censored*" and like that the knowledge of were the girls were heading may have slipped out from the family inner circle.
 
BradB said:
It doesnt have to be a big cover up. Maybe it's simply the fact nobody knows who it is.

We have to come to grips all what has transpired lately was just smoke meant to rejuvenate this case. The have nothing and have absolutely no idea where to turn. If one of the millon tips provided anything, they would have got him by now.
Click to expand...

That is really insightful. It happens. Yet, sometimes people go past the simple truth that sometimes, even in today's world of surveillance and DNA, people still get away because no one knows them.

Things like this are in the percentages. It's hard to accept. I hope this is not the case, and the the killer will be caught, but it may be that just by percentages he escapes.
 
"We have a witness. You made mistakes. We are coming for you, and there's no place for a heartless coward like you to hide that gets his thrill from killing little girls," Carter said..

Police release new sketch, video of suspect in Delphi murders

"Making mistakes" (plural)..doesn't it imply something unplanned happened? A wrong choice can be seen as a mistake going to happen. Or a mistake can be categorized after the fact based on set standards or unforeseen events.

In any case it shows intent IMO. The intent being not to make mistakes. So, did the killer of Abby and Libby slip by going off plan due to unforeseen circumstances, or did he make mistakes in calculating things like risk, time frame, egress (witness?). Did he make mistakes if he staged the crime scene in any way? Did he make mistakes by overdoing whatever he was doing (not leaving DNA?? for example). Fact is, Carter said "mistakes", plural. Lots of possibilities.

ALL IMO

-Nin
 
BradB said:
It doesnt have to be a big cover up. Maybe it's simply the fact nobody knows who it is.

We have to come to grips all what has transpired lately was just smoke meant to rejuvenate this case. The have nothing and have absolutely no idea where to turn. If one of the millon tips provided anything, they would have got him by now.
Click to expand...
I agree.

Even with all the evidence, this case has gone unsolved for two years. They had no idea who did it then, they have no idea who did it now. Which is why they keep begging for public assistance. The case is at a standstill.

MOO
 
mrtnira said:
That is really insightful. It happens. Yet, sometimes people go past the simple truth that sometimes, even in today's world of surveillance and DNA, people still get away because no one knows them.

Things like this are in the percentages. It's hard to accept. I hope this is not the case, and the the killer will be caught, but it may be that just by percentages he escapes.
Click to expand...
Interesting concept mrtnira. The concept of Mr. Invisible. Mr. Nobody.
Hmmm....

Amateur opinion and speculation
 
LuminiousVisions said:
I continue to believe that the tip they need must come from family. In my scenario, the vehicle and who was driving it will be the one piece they need. The family needs to identity which family member was driving the vehicle so they have probable cause to test the driver's DNA.
(moonlessnight)

I agree 100%
Click to expand...
Even if the family or someone else identified the driver, it still doesn’t give LE probable cause to test the drivers DNA.
 
Theforeigner said:
Great thinking Nin , as always.

I go with your nr 3 theory.

I have posted a very similar theory a couple of times,
latest May 6th, 2019, here is a copy:

My theory (one of them):
The killer's motive was to silence one of the girls, I believe Libby, bc she knew something about him that would ruin his life if it came out, and that Libby may have threatened to tell what she knew. Abby was just at the wrong place at the wrong time and the killer choose to kill her too bc she was wittness.

The killers MO was that of a lust killer, possibly sexual motivated, and that he choose that MO to make the murders look as something else than it actually was in order to misslead police.

How would the killer know that Libby was on the bridge?
If the killer was facebook friend and/or Instagram follower of Libby maybe Libby might have posted on FB (privat message to someone?) or snapchat on Instagram something about going to the bridge so he would know.
Or he was stalking Libby, waiting in a car close to her home and followed when Libby and Abby left Libby's home by car ?

Also, we know that there was several in Libby's close circles that knew ( not that I suspect any of her family members) that the girls was going to the bridge, maybe one them have mentioned something to someone, by phone, or social media like ; " -Ok, but I just have to bring my sister (or; my daughter etc) to/from the bridge then I have time to *advertiser censored*" and like that the knowledge of were the girls were heading may have slipped out from the family inner circle.
Click to expand...

Yes, TF, all very possible and good thinking as well. Do you recall, when LE declared, that BG at least "participated" in the murders? So, is or are there accomplices?

It is also possible, that the intent of targeting the girls may have developed shortly after they had been dropped off at the trail. Perhaps there was a group of individuals, who were involved in illegal activities and who knew the girls! If that was the case, I am sure the audio would clear that up. LE may know exactly why the girls were killed, if that's how it went.

And then look at BG's clothing. Who says BG dressed in layers to get rid of his clothes? Folks (eg.gang members) do dress up bulky in case they get into a knife fight! They even wear 2 pairs of jeans.. I have seen that repeatedly in the heat of the Florida sun! In addition, wearing a (possible) gun and letting everyone know he is (possibly) wearing one, or even wearing something that just "looks like" a gun, would do the deed and would send a message IMO.

Definitely something off with all that and with the fact, that Delphi is such a small tight knit community, not much going on and then puff someone manages to commit the perfect crime in the middle of a Monday afternoon, while being seen by witness(es), being caught on video and audio..a perfect crime not! It is everything else than perfect! Was that a mistake?

ALL IMO

-Nin
 
No it's not said:
"We have a witness. You made mistakes. We are coming for you, and there's no place for a heartless coward like you to hide that gets his thrill from killing little girls," Carter said..

Police release new sketch, video of suspect in Delphi murders

"Making mistakes" (plural)..doesn't it imply something unplanned happened? A wrong choice can be seen as a mistake going to happen. Or a mistake can be categorized after the fact based on set standards or unforeseen events.

In any case it shows intent IMO. The intent being not to make mistakes. So, did the killer of Abby and Libby slip by going off plan due to unforeseen circumstances, or did he make mistakes in calculating things like risk, time frame, egress (witness?). Did he make mistakes if he staged the crime scene in any way? Did he make mistakes by overdoing whatever he was doing (not leaving DNA?? for example). Fact is, Carter said "mistakes", plural. Lots of possibilities.

ALL IMO

-Nin
Click to expand...
I'd be careful about parsing this statement, since DC never made it during the PC. David Bursten, the ISP Chief Public Information Officer, made it. In his news release, he (somewhat carelessly?) paraphrased DC.

New 'Face' of the Delphi Murder Suspect
 
No it's not said:
I am wondering, if this was a by chance encounter and the killer took the opportunity to attack and murder the girls. What would I expect to see? I would expect to see lots of chaos, lots of DNA and most likely no witnesses or witnesses, who saw a wet, crazy looking frenzy acting guy, possibly running like hell. The CS would not be on the other side of the creek. He would have killed the girls in the area between the private road and the creek bed.

I am wondering, if this was planned, but the girls had not been specifically targeted, what would I expect to see?
I would expect a certain degree of chaos, lots of DNA due to the fact, that the killer had to overpower 2 victims, possible defense wounds on the victims, not much staging of the CS or posing of the victims due to time constraints ( who checks the time, when committing such a horrible crime..?? I would think more like" in and out"). The killer may have forced the victims to cross the creek, especially if one of the victims was already diseased or had been drowned. The creek would also be a barrier for searchers. There may be witnesses, who saw the killer.

I am wondering, if the girl(s) were targeted and if the crime scene had been staged to look like a serial killer committed the murders. What would I expect to see if this was true? A tight timeline of events, witnesses to possibly see one person or more, who were not the killer, victim posing, possible signature, gruesome crime scene, no /or very little DNA of the killer at the CS/on the victims, possible accomplices. The victims may have been drowned in the creek and then may have disposed at the crime scene in a very brutal way to make it look like something it was not.

ALL IMO

Just wondering..

-Nin
Click to expand...
Excellent analysis and a thought provoking post. For a number of reasons I'm inclined to go with the staged crime scene. The murderer was making a statement with positioning of the bodies, but needed the crime to appear random. I believe that more than just one person is covering for (or in denial regarding) the perpetrator(s). They feel justified because they "need" to support and/or be supported by the guilty person. Their personal needs are more important than revealing the truth.
 
janewall said:
caicasi? What does that mean? I searched it thinking it might pop up in the acronyms thread, but found nothing. TIA
Click to expand...

I can't seem to control message drafts very well - and apparently I sent an unfinished message by accident and I didn't realize it until after the time allowed for editing had passed.
It was is supposed to say "caucasian."
 
Boxer said:
I can't seem to control message drafts very well - and apparently I sent an unfinished message by accident and I didn't realize it until after the time allowed for editing had passed.
It was is supposed to say "caucasian."
Click to expand...

LOL I see I'm not the only one having trouble with drafts today! Thanks for clearing that up – I might have guessed it if I'd given it many many minutes, but probably not. ;)
 
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