Found Deceased IN - Abigail (Abby) Williams, 13, & Liberty (Libby) German, 14, The Delphi Murders 13 Feb 2017 #122

[crhedBngr]

With regard to occupation, what about some form of utilities worker like a power linesman or a water and gas worker or a telephone tech? Someone who might have quite a large "territory" to drive through and might often end up in some quite "out there" places and may even spend nights in hotels away from home. He'd be working with maps quite often and would be able to learn where popular isolated walk trails are. He could also make excuses about liking to be alone after work to get away from colleagues to scout locations occasionally while he's travelling

That is my best guess as well.

JMVHO.

 

[EmmaRose]

That is my best guess as well.

JMVHO.

possibly an ironworker? No fear of heights?? Wish we could catch this loser.

 

[UnapologeticallyAspie]

@StarryStarryNight on 3/2/20 you said “
I’ve thought this too. Your idea here is why I don’t think crossing the creek was in the killer’s original plan. Too much of a chance of that happening to him. That’s why I think they only crossed the creek because the girls ran. I think he killed Abby first in a rage when he caught her. I think He fought and attempted to SA Libby but couldn’t, so he killed her in a bigger rage. Just my thoughts.”

But according to the obituaries Libby died on the 13th, View Liberty German's Obituary on jconline.com and share memories, and Abby died in the 14th: View Abigail Williams's Obituary on jconline.com and share memories

In all likelihood this has probably already been addressed, seeing that there are 122 threads, of which I’ve only read #122 and part of 121 but because I just started following this case I don’t know.
Please accept my most humble apologies if this has already been discussed.

 

[SAMS]

Been lurking but wanted to add my insights. IMO the girls were killed by an opportunistic predator. He is a blue collar worker with some sort of ties to the community. I don’t think he works in Delphi but he may be from or live(s) live(d) near. He is certainly familiar with the area. I would be surprised if he hadn’t been to the bridge before, checking out the area, possibly looking for a victim, prior to this day. I see BG as in his low 30’s to mid 50’s. I don’t see younger. Again, JMO. His gait, body language, and clothing seem more suited to middle age, or just shy of. He’s done this before. His first victim may have been a single victim, young. I believe he graduated to two victims and couldn’t shake the thrill, the need to do it again. Then he happened upon Abbie & Libby. I don’t think he’s been noticeable bc this guy has always been an introvert, works with his hands, no one would notice any change in his behavior. IMO he lives alone, or with an elderly parent. He will strike again if not caught, but it won’t be close to Delphi. I also think the perp here and in the case of Lyric & Elizabeth are the same. IMO MOOOOOO

Evansdale, Indiana double-homicide links 'coincidental,' Indiana State Police say

 

[Jax49]

@StarryStarryNight on 3/2/20 you said “
I’ve thought this too. Your idea here is why I don’t think crossing the creek was in the killer’s original plan. Too much of a chance of that happening to him. That’s why I think they only crossed the creek because the girls ran. I think he killed Abby first in a rage when he caught her. I think He fought and attempted to SA Libby but couldn’t, so he killed her in a bigger rage. Just my thoughts.”

But according to the obituaries Libby died on the 13th, View Liberty German's Obituary on jconline.com and share memories

and Abby died in the 14th: View Abigail Williams's Obituary on jconline.com and share memories

In all likelihood this has probably already been addressed, seeing that there are 122 threads, of which I’ve only read #122 and part of 121 but because I just started following this case I don’t know.
Please accept my most humble apologies if this has already been discussed.

You're correct - it has been discussed multiple times. Both girls died on the 13th, per the petition to seal the autopsy reports. Plus, LE has stated the girls were murdered within minutes of the recording on the bridge.

On March 28, 2017, State of Indiana, by Prosecuting Attorney Robert T. Ives, filed a Petition to seal the autopsy reports concerning Abigail Williams and Liberty German. The Court, being duly advised, FINDS as follows: 1) On February 13, 2017 Abigail Williams and Liberty German were killed just outside of Delphi in Carroll County, Indiana.

bbm

Found Deceased - IN - Abigail Williams, 13, & Liberty German, 14, Delphi, 13 Feb 2017 #47

 

[StarryStarryNight]

@StarryStarryNight on 3/2/20 you said “
I’ve thought this too. Your idea here is why I don’t think crossing the creek was in the killer’s original plan. Too much of a chance of that happening to him. That’s why I think they only crossed the creek because the girls ran. I think he killed Abby first in a rage when he caught her. I think He fought and attempted to SA Libby but couldn’t, so he killed her in a bigger rage. Just my thoughts.”

But according to the obituaries Libby died on the 13th, View Liberty German's Obituary on jconline.com and share memories, and Abby died in the 14th: View Abigail Williams's Obituary on jconline.com and share memories

In all likelihood this has probably already been addressed, seeing that there are 122 threads, of which I’ve only read #122 and part of 121 but because I just started following this case I don’t know.
Please accept my most humble apologies if this has already been discussed.

The differing death dates in the obituaries has been discussed. Just like everything else! No need for apologies, things are re-discussed all the time.
The coroner’s report(the autopsy was not released)says both girls died on Feb 13, 2017. The difference in the dates in the obituaries resulted from each family choosing different dates for their particular obituary. One chose the 13th, the day they went missing. One chose the 14th, the day they were found. It led to a ton of wild speculation early on but really that’s all there is to it.

 

[jillybean51]

I actually think whoever BG is s/he is tech savvy. Lets put it in simple terms. Who shows up, murders two girls, Leaves the girls mobile behind and appears not to take their own with them. Not only someone that may be amature tech savvy.

That actually means some type of premeditation whether it be saddley for Libby and Abby or anyone else who may be in the vicinity around the same time.

I am a apprehensive believer that if it wasn't Libby & Abby it would have been the young ladies that followed shortly after Libby and Abby. I personally think the Guy fcked up and murdered the wrong two young ladies.

I quite simply think we are looking for a hired killer who got their mark wrong.

Its all personal opinion nothing more and exploring other avenues.

As always MingyMoo

I like this theory^^^^

 

[California Sunset]

Usually, serial killers don’t travel far. If he lived close to/in Evansdale, IA, in 2012, and close to Delphi in 2017, then, yes. Otherwise, the distance is not small.

ETA: plus, I think there is still some, maybe minimal, connection, between the BG and the Delphi girls, some thread that we have not found out. As to Evansdale, those girls were younger. So maybe, they truly were in the wrong place at the wrong time, MOO.

You said 'usually'. I'd like to add my nickel's worth to that. You may want to read up on Richard Marc Edward Evonitz. I don't think he traveled to kill so much as perhaps relocated. I remember the Lisk sisters, and Sofia Silva, Spotsylvania County, Virginia. The Lisk sisters abduction was particularly unusual, at least to my way of thinking. (Sitting on their front porch doing homework about 4:00 pm. How did no one see anything?) Read about this guy. There are some interesting comments that pertain to him that sound like they could fit your killer here. He had abdducted another teenager, was being chased by the police and it was looking dire for him when it ended in Florida.
The other one that comes to mind was a long haul trucker, and his crimes were committed while on the road. All over the east coast. Some killers may have a 'kill zone', not close to home because they don't want to run into someone they know, but somewhere close by, like you say.
There was one guy arrested in the last ten years or so, had been in California for the Marines, took a vacation to Cali when the mood to rape and kill hit him. He had a storage locker out there. He got caught, I think, because he killed someone (near Chicago) in Indiana? and dumped her body in a lake. If you want more info on that guy, I believe he is deceased or incarcerated, ask and I'll research, try to get his name. One of his victims from the Cali area escaped, got saved by a couple guys in a big rig when they saw her running towards them on a highway. He was giving chase in a car, hung a quick u-turn, wasn't caught then.

You're going to get this killer. Keep searching.

 

[mom2chloe]

I agree with you partially; I'm also thinking, at least one girl had a connection to him, knowingly or not. Though I can't imagine, what a teenager girl or two of them could have done in the past, which made him, a grown man (probably, MOO), "vindictive". In what way could they have harmed him?
Sometimes AW, mum of Abby, and the creepy guy comes to mind, who talked to her, AFAIK when she waited in her car somewhere, and asked her, if she would know him. Unfortunately Idk, when the encounter happened to her? Does it make a sense, that he stalked AW after this (via vehicle registration number for example), saw her daughter on SM, saw daughter's friends/best friend on SM and stalked the girls? Idk.

Could you please refresh my memory on this scenario where mom said someone creepy had interaction with her in parked car? I ask because I have wondered and maybe even previously posted that maybe mom or someone disclosed to a coworker or someone she encountered while at work that the girls were hiking based on the nice weather that day. TIA!
Also what most of us would give for an opportunity to walk or hike during these trying times!

 

[California Sunset]

Just got permission to say the YouTube guy is CHUCK BRONSON, and link it. However, I cannot locate the video. One of you mentioned Anthony Greeno, and while I'm not familiar with that name, CHUCK may have been on that video as well, but he did another one live with another youtube person in January. That's the one I saw.

 

[mom2chloe]

That is my best guess as well.

JMVHO.

Someone previously suggested a DNR person who would be familiar with the area and who would be knowledgeable of the terrain and totally blend in. DNR meaning Department of Natural Resources; think Mine permits, mine reclamation and enforcement, forestry, oil and and gas employees. A friend works for government as a director in DNR and leans toward structural engineer and transportation people given the bridge. Anyone else familiar with these lines of work that could or would care to weigh in? TIA!

 

[California Sunset]

i believe the youtuber might be anthony greeno.

I tried to answer your comment, so you got credit for the question, but I'm new at this so the answer is lost in the stream around page 5. My apologies.

 

[California Sunset]

I still don't know how to delete, my computer is contrary like that. I meant to put in one message, delete one that shouldn't be here, and it looks like I'm totally unsuccessful. If you gave grades, I'd flunk. I'm in trouble.

 

[cujenn81]

Someone previously suggested a DNR person who would be familiar with the area and who would be knowledgeable of the terrain and totally blend in. DNR meaning Department of Natural Resources; think Mine permits, mine reclamation and enforcement, forestry, oil and and gas employees. A friend works for government as a director in DNR and leans toward structural engineer and transportation people given the bridge. Anyone else familiar with these lines of work that could or would care to weigh in? TIA!

My best friend's husband is a DNR officer, and his job duties have varied greatly over the course of their marriage. There was a time when the majority of his work was conducted in local parks, fishing locations, boat docks, waterways, and the like. When he was promoted to a managerial position, the majority of his work occurred in a state government office. He was later assigned to the governor's security detail and remained there for many years. He traveled all over the country (and other countries, as well) when he was on the governor's detail. There were times when his wife didn't even know his location because that information was considered sensitive and confidential.

From my understanding, DNR officers usually work irregular hours and spend a lot of time outdoors alone. They typically have statewide jurisdiction to enforce the law and often assist with search and rescue operations.

ETA: If BG is a DNR officer, he'd be familiar with those trails and bridges (even if he doesn't live in the immediate area). He has extensive knowledge about investigative tactics and procedures, as well as search and rescue methods. It's possible that he was called in to help with the search, and he likely knew that he would be. This all depends on a big "if" though.

 

[mom2chloe]

My best friend's husband is a DNR officer, and his job duties have varied greatly over the course of their marriage. There was a time when the majority of his work was conducted in local parks, fishing locations, boat docks, waterways, and the like. When he was promoted to a managerial position, the majority of his work occurred in a state government office. He was later assigned to the governor's security detail and remained there for many years. He traveled all over the country (and other countries, as well) when he was on the governor's detail. There were times when his wife didn't even know his location because that information was considered sensitive and confidential.

From my understanding, DNR officers usually work irregular hours and spend a lot of time outdoors alone. They typically have statewide jurisdiction to enforce the law and often assist with search and rescue operations.

BBM this may be key to who he is and how he assisted with search and rescue and why Carter stated he had heard that voice. BG is known to someone within the community and somewhat respected although he comes off as a good old boy and therefore no one wants to name him. MOO

 

[California Sunset]

Usually, serial killers don’t travel far. If he lived close to/in Evansdale, IA, in 2012, and close to Delphi in 2017, then, yes. Otherwise, the distance is not small.

ETA: plus, I think there is still some, maybe minimal, connection, between the BG and the Delphi girls, some thread that we have not found out. As to Evansdale, those girls were younger. So maybe, they truly were in the wrong place at the wrong time, MOO.

Serial killers may not travel far, but don't most of us 'travel'? I've been all over this country and some others as well. Perhaps, on occasion, this killer took advantage of a spur of the moment situation and just abducted, raped or killed someone.
I was looking around online and ran across a name, the guy isn't your BG, but his MO and history are interesting, and I thought it might give all of you an idea or two. Larry DeWayne Hall. Another Indiana guy, I believe, and supposedly a prolific killer.

 

[California Sunset]

what would someone who looks in between sketch one and two even look like?
it's too much to ask people to imagine this or turn in someone based on looking somewhere in between both sketches.

its hard enough trying to get a tip based. on one drawing alone...mOO

Is it possible to 'repair' the photo and fill in the blanks so his features are more distinguishable?

 

[Juggernautseeker]

I just saw the beginning of the video to which you most likely refer. I didn't see this video. But you are correct. My apologies.
The video I saw was dated January 13, 2020. Two YouTube guys were there. I found it very interesting, and I liked the way the guys were treated by (the Sheriff's Dept?). Like I said, at the time, I didn't realize the Delphi murders were in Indiana, and I learned a lot from the video. Up until then, I was only vaguely aware of what had happened, so the video brought out a lot I didn't know.
Those of you who have been on this from the beginning are much more aware of things than so many other people, like me. But maybe the videos will bring you fresh insight or maybe more substantial information on the girls' killer, and between everyone you'll get the case solved.
I have discovered over time that sometimes you can be so close to something and not see 'the obvious', because it is indeed 'hiding in plain sight' OR the direction you are looking in isn't quite where the object is. It's just out there in your peripheral vision
Have you ever seen two pictures where they show you two that are the same except one has a mistake and ask where the mistake is? Sometimes it's glaring at you, but you just can't see it. This may be a case where the killer is right in plain sight but he's someone people overlook because he is trusted. Trusted to the point that no one suspects him. Or it's so far from the personality he presents that people can't see him as a killer.
As far as the composite goes. Remember Ted Kaczynski? Look at the composite for him, and then the actual man when he's arrested. I just don't see Ted Kaczynski in that composite. He looks younger there. Could the killer have changed his appearance since the murders? Grew a mustache, a beard, shaved his head, grew his hair long, changed his hair color, changed his hair style, started/stopped wearing a hat, a hoodie. Wears glasses, changed his glasses, got contact lenses. Anything to change his appearance. Or, could he be someone so nondescript, people don't even see him. He's almost invisible to people.
I read constantly. But maybe some of you have seen the movies about The Bourne Identity, where Jason Bourne's description isn't usually the same twice. His hair is brown, dark brown, blonde, light brown, reddish, black. His eye color changes because he wore different color contacts. He's a chameleon. Maybe your killer is like that.
The other thing is, they say, when someone does something like this, there is something in that person's behavior that's like a red flag. They do change, somehow. Become more unkempt, change in their personality. There was a guy ages ago, he killed a teenage girl, and I think a young girl. They did that profile thing, and I don't remember what led to him being caught, but, the changes in his personality/behavior were there all along, but I think he was from another state. No one put him together with the crime.
Maybe you already knew all this, if so, excuse me for running on.
I hope this killer is on the verge of being caught. Best Wishes.

 

[Juggernautseeker]

??

 

[Juggernautseeker]

With regard to occupation, what about some form of utilities worker like a power linesman or a water and gas worker or a telephone tech? Someone who might have quite a large "territory" to drive through and might often end up in some quite "out there" places and may even spend nights in hotels away from home. He'd be working with maps quite often and would be able to learn where popular isolated walk trails are. He could also make excuses about liking to be alone after work to get away from colleagues to scout locations occasionally while he's travelling