Found Deceased IN - Abigail (Abby) Williams, 13, & Liberty (Libby) German, 14, The Delphi Murders 13 Feb 2017 #124

[SMK777]

Anybody else ever consider that "guys" is not used in the same sentence as the words "down the hill" in the recording, or that "down the hill" was NOT a directive?

• Yes. It seems disconnected.
• You mean as in maybe, it’s down the hill there?

 

[stattlich1]

• Yes. It seems disconnected.
• You mean as in maybe, it’s down the hill there?

Yeah, or "the guy you're looking for is down the hill" or even, "you can get some really good photos of the bridge if you go down the hill"

 

[SMK777]

Yeah, or "the guy you're looking for is down the hill" or even, "you can get some really good photos of the bridge if you go down the hill"

It’s possible. We don’t really know when he revealed his true intentions; he may have tried to seem friendly initially.

I wonder how much there is in the audio, that LE knows (whereas we have to continue speculating.)

And recall what the Sheriff said: Could it be due to things in the full audio? :

When asked about why he said there was no danger to the public he said he had a feeling then and still does now that this incident was isolated to the victims and not an ongoing threat to public.

 

[MistyWaters]

<snipped to reply>
I got the impression that with Libby additionally being interested in photography, they went there partially just for the photo op. If you are familiar with the youth cultural trend "VSCO girls," they would have been on the cusp of that and wanting to document their life experiences in unique and artistic ways. IMO

Libby’s instagram has been linked here before and initially I’m sure I recall looking at her beautiful photos but now the account is private. I remember thinking what creatively beautiful photos she captured, demonstrating an artistic maturity far beyond her years.

I notice she followed 407 others. I don’t know anything about Instagram. Does anyone know, do followers require approval by the account holder or are these people who just added themselves to take a look at her photos after the murders occurred? 892 followers seems a sizeable number for a 14 year old grade 8 student from quite a small town. If LE suspected any sort of online/catfish connection, a fair bit of work would go into tracking all these people down.

Login • Instagram

 

[mom2chloe]

Yeah, or "the guy you're looking for is down the hill" or even, "you can get some really good photos of the bridge if you go down the hill"

Is it even possible that he offered to take the phone in suggesting to get a picture of the two of them with the bridge in the background?

 

[mom2chloe]

Libby’s instagram has been linked here before and initially I’m sure I recall looking at her beautiful photos but now the account is private. I remember thinking what creatively beautiful photos she captured, demonstrating an artistic maturity far beyond her years.

I notice she followed 407 others. I don’t know anything about Instagram. Does anyone know, do followers require approval by the account holder or are these people who just added themselves to take a look at her photos after the murders occurred? 892 followers seems a sizeable number for a 14 year old grade 8 student from quite a small town. If LE suspected any sort of online/catfish connection, a fair bit of work would go into tracking all these people down.

Login • Instagram

IME Instagram allows you to set your privacy settings and therefore you can both follow infinitely others as they can follow you subject to your privacy settings. This is what scares me every day and leads me to believe that BG may well have known them and their habits especially the fact they would be at the bridge that day. IMO

 

[MistyWaters]

IME Instagram allows you to set your privacy settings and therefore you can both follow infinitely others as they can follow you subject to your privacy settings. This is what scares me every day and leads me to believe that BG may well have known them and their habits especially the fact they would be at the bridge that day. IMO

Oh thank you, that answers my question. I can sort of see how younger people might be inclined to have open privacy settings by thinking the more followers, the better. Especially if it’s anything like FB where number of “friends” often equates to popularity. (Maybe not just younger people)

 

[sunshineray]

It is true, in over three years there’s been no further murders of young teens so I think it’s fair to say there’s not an ongoing threat to the public. It’s the role of LE to ensure the safety of a community. If the local sheriff’s dept was to officially announce living in Delphi is dangerous because of an unsolved murder, what would be the solution aside from everyone moving away?

But in truth, it would be impossible to say that this killer has not moved on to another area, another state, even another country and killed again. Just the fact that he's not been apprehended means he's out among us and therefore must be considered an ongoing threat to society. His actions to date have made that true.
Edit by me:
Sorry, so my point to all that would be those words shouldn't have been spoken, IMO. What should have been stressed by all and always, in no uncertain terms, is there's a killer on the loose of course he should be considered a danger to the community.

 

[JnRyan]

Anybody else ever consider that "guys" is not used in the same sentence as the words "down the hill" in the recording, or that "down the hill" was NOT a directive?

Interesting thought. The "guys" and "down the hill" obviously don't sound like those portions are in the same sentence. So since LE snipped it out, maybe they withheld major sections of both sentences? The context might change if we heard the entire sentences? What if LE edited sections out because Liberty or Abigail was talking at the same time and it might disturbing to hear some of their last words.

 

[MistyWaters]

But in truth, it would be impossible to say that this killer has not moved on to another area, another state, even another country and killed again. Just the fact that he's not been apprehended means he's out among us and therefore must be considered an ongoing threat to society. His actions to date have made that true.
Edit by me:
Sorry, so my point to all that would be those words shouldn't have been spoken, IMO. What should have been stressed by all and always, in no uncertain terms, is there's a killer on the loose of course he should be considered a danger to the community.

I think the same could be said of virtually every unsolved homicide, the perpetrator is a threat to society. But he didn’t say the killer wasn’t a threat. He said there wasn’t an ongoing threat which I understand to mean murders within the community of Delphi weren’t continuing....as would be if an active serial killer was at large.

I’m certain the citizens of Delphi are wise enough to know there’s a chance the killer may still reside amongst them, given there’s been no arrest yet.

 

[sunshineray]

True, apparently the killer was traced through an IP address. But that would’ve been difficult to impossible had the killer used a burner phone, stolen phone or obtained it using a false identity. However if something such as that was involved, from intensive cellphone tower dump investigation the originating area of the online communication possibly could be determined. That could be another reason LE suspect the killer was local but this is purely speculation.

One thing that I’ve always thought an unusual coincidence although it probably was only that, that iirc BP said Libby was having trouble with her cellphone and did a full reset that last night before the two disappeared.

Libby's cell phone needing a full reset I tend to feel was more an anomaly (that would need investigating, I'm sure it was) than a coincidence. That is unless that phone had a known problem in the weeks before and finally there was no other choice. I don't recall BP, MP or KG ever saying that was the case but I could be forgetting something.

 

[MistyWaters]

Libby's cell phone needing a full reset I tend to feel was more an anomaly (that would need investigating, I'm sure it was) than a coincidence. That is unless that phone had a known problem in the weeks before and finally there was no other choice. I don't recall BP, MP or KG ever saying that was the case but I could be forgetting something.

The first thought that came to my mind was Libby’s phone was acting up because it had been unknowingly hacked by some sicko who was stalking her, seeking a killing in a manner resembling an extremely perverse hunting game. Not saying I’m right, just a fleeting thought of that possibility.

 

[sunshineray]

It makes the most sense to me. The only time I’m aware of for LE to alert a community to danger is during a very specific active situation such as a shooter at large, a confrontation between LE and a perp, some known incident involving potential for violence etc. Then LE asks the public to take a specific action such as avoiding a certain area, evacuating or staying inside of their homes until the threat is contained or passed. If there’s no imminent danger, then the community is considered safe for lack of a better term.

What if there's a rapist striking here and there, what then? What if there's sightings suspicious cars around schools, parks or playgrounds? Both these situations have occurred in my town over the years and going back quite some years and LE never made a point of getting the word out. I think these kinds of things are not to be downplayed or hushed at all. Thank God the schools in town sent home bulletins.

 

[sunshineray]

I think the same could be said of virtually every unsolved homicide, the perpetrator is a threat to society. But he didn’t say the killer wasn’t a threat. He said there wasn’t an ongoing threat which I understand to mean murders within the community of Delphi weren’t continuing....as would be if an active serial killer was at large.

I’m certain the citizens of Delphi are wise enough to know there’s a chance the killer may still reside amongst them, given there’s been no arrest yet.

Exactly right your last paragraph and so the Sheriff should never have said otherwise. I'm truly not trying to be argumentative. I just hate it when officials think they have to dumb the truth down or say something they think is soothing. There's no comfort to be found in having a predator at large. AJMO

 

[MistyWaters]

What if there's a rapist striking here and there, what then? What if there's sightings suspicious cars around schools, parks or playgrounds? Both these situations have occurred in my town over the years and going back quite some years and LE never made a point of getting the word out. I think these kinds of things are not to be downplayed or hushed at all. Thank God the schools in town sent home bulletins.

I not sure what more you think LE could be doing. It must be very difficult for people living in Delphi, not only because of the unsolved murders but also being placed in the spotlight of the location of a high profile crime. But rather than living in fear, moving forward with their lives is what they must do and that IMO is a great example of a strong, resilient community.

“Ladd said fear is still present in Delphi, but it's not preventing people from living their lives.

"We're suspicious, but we're still moving forward," Ladd said. "We're going to complete the park for Abby and Libby. We're going to keep our eyes open. But we're going to keep moving forward."...”
Delphi murders: After 3 years, police say case isn't cold

 

[Yemelyan]

Libby’s instagram has been linked here before and initially I’m sure I recall looking at her beautiful photos but now the account is private. I remember thinking what creatively beautiful photos she captured, demonstrating an artistic maturity far beyond her years.

I notice she followed 407 others. I don’t know anything about Instagram. Does anyone know, do followers require approval by the account holder or are these people who just added themselves to take a look at her photos after the murders occurred? 892 followers seems a sizeable number for a 14 year old grade 8 student from quite a small town. If LE suspected any sort of online/catfish connection, a fair bit of work would go into tracking all these people down.

Login • Instagram

You can make your account totally private and then followers have to request to follow and see what you post. However, for a lot of people this defeats the purpose of Instagram because unlike Facebook, where you tend to share your day to day activity, Instagram is more about sharing carefully curated images. For example, if you were going on vacation you might post several times on Facebook "currently packing! Can't wait to be at the beach!" "Which swimsuit should I take, A or B?" "Finally at the airport!" And then beach selfies. On Instagram, you would probably not share all this info, you would just post one highly edited ocean photo and a short caption "beach life!"

Many of her followers definitely could have been people who followed in the immediate aftermath of her death. As for those who she followed, it's likely many of the 407 were businesses and celebrities and not regular personal accounts.

Unlike Snapchat and other similar apps, on Instagram there is no expectation that your private messages or comments, even if deleted by you, are gone forever.

 

[Charlot123]

It’s hard to say. I can think of family members in their 20s who have almost an identical sounding voice to their father and grandfather. But the voices of other men in their 20s haven’t yet matured. So JMO, it’s more of a genetic thing as opposed to being able to tell a man’s age from his voice, of course other than very young or old.

ETA - I think the video/photo and the audio have been extremely valuable in ruling out possible suspects, as opposed to conclusively identifying the killer.

As well as the DNA. Well, ruling out also helps.

 

[Charlot123]

I agree. I have a relatively deep voice for a female and my voice sounds extremely deep over the phone or on a recording. Much deeper than in person. I sound like an old man on the intercom at work. Many years of smoking hasn’t helped. He could be a young heavy smoker? Regardless, I think you’re right, it’s very difficult to distinguish age by voice alone. JMO.

Here is an interesting article about perception of own voice.
The real reason the sound of your own voice makes you cringe | Psychology | The Guardian


My voice is very dull on recordings. I thought it was how it sounded IRL, and then remembered an interview with my dad, eons ago. His voice was also much duller than IRL. So maybe “rich” tones are cut off on recording?

 

[Charlot123]

This is not accurate. LE was able to obtain information from Kik when Nicole Lovell disappeared, and it led them directly to her murderer.

Nicole Lovell murder: Was a Virginia teen lured to her death through a smartphone app?

Good information, thank you. A lot of thinking and comparison to do between the cases. So one could recruit a girl to help clean? Similar to Kelsey Berreth murder.

In 2015 Kik promised to invest into facial recognition features...has it been done?

 

[sunshineray]

I not sure what more you think LE could be doing. It must be very difficult for people living in Delphi, not only because of the unsolved murders but also being placed in the spotlight of the location of a high profile crime. But rather than living in fear, moving forward with their lives is what they must do and that IMO is a great example of a strong, resilient community.

“Ladd said fear is still present in Delphi, but it's not preventing people from living their lives.

"We're suspicious, but we're still moving forward," Ladd said. "We're going to complete the park for Abby and Libby. We're going to keep our eyes open. But we're going to keep moving forward."...”
Delphi murders: After 3 years, police say case isn't cold

Not what I was addressing at all. It's way after the fact right now, I was addressing the early days. Like I said I don't want to argue this as I want to respect your point of view.