IN - Abigail Williams, 13, & Liberty German, 14, Delphi, 13 Feb 2017 #60

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I must have missed that...


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It was an interview with Capt. Burnsten of the ISP from about a month ago. At about the 5 minute mark he answers about optimism. The rest of the interview is interesting also (the first five minutes are about another case).

https://soundcloud.com/93wibc/capt-david-bursten-from-isp-talks-facebook-killer-and-delphi

"Optimism isn't real high."

Here's a link to where the discussion started (credit JLSChook for locating the interview).

http://www.websleuths.com/forums/sh...Delphi-13-Feb-2017-51&p=13320729#post13320729

ETA: to add quote
 
How does one "accidentally" murder a 12 year old girl in a remote forest? What are you basing the belief they weren't sexually assaulted on?
i personally don't think a SA took place. i think it was likely that the girls were dead in less than a half a hour of their initial encounter. i don't think there was time for a SA. one could have been staged in minutes, but i don't think a actual one took place.
 
Knocked off bridge, hunting or other gun accident, argument got out of control causing fall and head injury.
those are great examples. i would not be surprised if it was accident/murder/cover up. i don't think the suspect woke up that day intending to kill.
 
those are great examples. i would not be surprised if it was accident/murder/cover up. i don't think the suspect woke up that day intending to kill.

Interesting... . so could "Down the Hill" just be directions for Libby to come with the man to find (and presumably help) her friend. Abby was maybe pushed off was severely hurt....and when it is discovered she has broken her neck or something, BG kills the other girl and somehow manages to take them both across the creek to hide them???
 
those are great examples. i would not be surprised if it was accident/murder/cover up. i don't think the suspect woke up that day intending to kill.

Maybe BG pushed Abby off the bridge and when he said "Down the Hill" he was telling Libby where to go to help her friend. So maybe when they found Abby and her neck was broken for example, then he decided to kill Libby and cover it all up by dragging them across the river and finishing off Abby???
 
Two things I wonder about : The girls go missing but did anyone try to utilize iPhone's Find My Phone location service for either phone? It just seems more alarms should have gone off straightaway once the girls failed to appear for their ride home. Also, the speed with which this diabolical event occurred is disturbing. I can't help but think it was over as soon as it began........
 
Interesting... . so could "Down the Hill" just be directions for Libby to come with the man to find (and presumably help) her friend. Abby was maybe pushed off was severely hurt....and when it is discovered she has broken her neck or something, BG kills the other girl and somehow manages to take them both across the creek to hide them???
something on the bridge seems plausible, especially if the confrontation began there. it does not look like the kind of place where you would want to begin something physical. someone could easily get hurt. i think they both walked "down the hill". i don't think he purposely pushed anyone off the bridge. it comes with too much risk of survival and a get away.
 
Hi, hope you don't mind if I tackle this one, although here on the main thread I cannot give you any visuals, those would be reserved for the image thread.

BG most definitely has a shadow, though very faint.

The photo is a still taken from video and when I reproduced the exact same scenario, I found that my daughter's shadow was very faint to what it was to my eye in real life.

Check this gif out on the image thread and watch the bottom right corner http://www.websleuths.com/forums/sh...erty-German-14-Delphi&p=13380972#post13380972Watch the gif closely and you will see it, it's there. That time of year shadows are longer and skinnier so the shadow you see is mostly of his legs in the frame we have (body shadow off the frame) so they can be mistaken for the rail ties.

HTH.

ETA: I have posted a photo from the above mentioned experiment I did so you can compare if you wish. Image thread:http://www.websleuths.com/forums/sh...erty-German-14-Delphi&p=13409152#post13409152

Shame on me. I did not give credit for the gif post from the image thread. The gif was created by Nin. The post I used that included the gif was by Billy Mabou.

H/T to both Nin and Billy and apologies for not giving proper credit in my post.
 
Shame on me. I did not give credit for the gif post from the image thread. The gif was created by Nin. The post I used that included the gif was by Billy Mabou.

H/T to both Nin and Billy and apologies for not giving proper credit in my post.


Never a problem, thanks :--)

-Nin
 
I was born and raised in Indiana, not far from Delphi. Although the Monon trail itself is pretty well known, I'm not sure that this bridge is the most popular place to hike. I feel that the person who did this is probably fairly local. This bridge isn't a place that you would have such a heavy pedestrian flow that you would wait around until someone came along for you to murder. So, this was probably a crime of opportunity or the hiker saw them earlier and decided to go back and find them or whatever. Although Indiana can be very cold in February, the temp that day was 47, but in one of the pics, it didn't appear one of the girls was very bundled up. So the sun could've been fairly warm. However, the guy was REALLY bundled up as if it were much cooler. That makes me think he was out there for awhile maybe stalking or waiting for someone to come by. I know police have to keep certain details quiet and I understand why, but I wish we had a bit more info on some things. But I think that's just bc we all wanna help so badly!

<SNIP>.
You brought to mind something I totally missed before. It would make sense if he had been lurking somewhere on the trail waiting for someone to come by, not necessarily these two. They may have been suspicious of him because they had seen him on the trail somewhere, or perhaps somewhat hidden in the wooded area along the trail.
It may have taken the extra 20+ minutes for him to get there because he was preparing for the attack. He may have had a bag of some kind hidden out there with everything he'd need so he wouldn't look too suspicious to anyone else who might have seen him out there. MOO
 
Shire, here's the problem I have with any opinion, including mine...
LE has given basically zero information to the public to form an opinion. Or rather to form one based on facts.

To answer you question, I think there is a clue to be considered based on what I heard transcribing LE transmissions.

BoP, I always love your posts because they are usually pointing me back to the facts. That helps to keep me grounded in reality while my brain flies off into Neverland, LOL!

BBM I hope you don't mind me jumping off your statements but I concur with your point and would like to add some thoughts I am having as of late.

I Know many here feel that LE doesn't owe us any explanation or isn't under any obligation to provide us with additional information. And, while that is actually true, we now have the social media aspect to add to the mix. SM adds a new dimension in which all sorts of theories are allowed to sprout and grow wings as people (and whole groups) reach their own conclusions, often based on rumor, simply because LE won't give the most basic of details.

While that in itself is not too problematic, it becomes so when based on these theories innocent people are targeted relentlessly and character aassasination runs rampant. Not here of course, WSer's are wonderfully wonderful always, sleuthing and forming theories is our thing, but we have all had a gander at other sites and it is brutal. Because of this LE is forced to spend time stamping out the rumors and the finger-pointing.

Another issue I see with the new SM dimension is that there may be hundreds, if not thousands, of tips turned in to LE based on these speculations. These tips have to be sifted through, possibly causing LE to spend precious resources and man hours following up on each and every piece of paper and every single phone message with tips from the public that could be used pursuing the killer. How many of these tips would never even be turned in if we had answers to the most basic of questions, like cause of death, for instance.

I totally understand that LE needs to keep details of the case close to the breast, but ALL of them? I wonder if they aren't doing themselves a bit of a disservice in doing so.

All of the above is moooooooooooo and imo, of course.
 
Ot but as I said before, I have been binge-watching ID channel lately as I had not had it in a few years. Every case I have seen involving young girls like Abby and Libby involved sexual assault, except for those of teen-on-teen murder over jealousy, etc. No other motives in any of these dozens of cases on various series. And in all of the cases where LE spoke on camera, they all stated that it was the worst crime they'd seen, the most horrifying, most brutal, most shocking, etc...as we have heard in this case too.

Since teen-on-teen violence does not seem to apply, I can't buy into any motives other than sexual assault at this point. Jmo
 
i agree with you. they really have not come forward asking for tips since their press conference when they released the audio. i think that was on feb 22nd. when we do see them asking for tips it is some canned response when asked or some canned response at the end of the article. i can't think of the last time LE played the audio clip. maybe it was at the feb press conference. i agree with you. i think they know who did this and i think they have known for a very long time.
Hi Toast! Haven't heard from you much. Missed you!
 
BoP, I always love your posts because they are usually pointing me back to the facts. That helps to keep me grounded in reality while my brain flies off into Neverland, LOL!

BBM I hope you don't mind me jumping off your statements but I concur with your point and would like to add some thoughts I am having as of late.

I Know many here feel that LE doesn't owe us any explanation or isn't under any obligation to provide us with additional information. And, while that is actually true, we now have the social media aspect to add to the mix. SM adds a new dimension in which all sorts of theories are allowed to sprout and grow wings as people (and whole groups) reach their own conclusions, often based on rumor, simply because LE won't give the most basic of details.

While that in itself is not too problematic, it becomes so when based on these theories innocent people are targeted relentlessly and character aassasination runs rampant. Not here of course, WSer's are wonderfully wonderful always, sleuthing and forming theories is our thing, but we have all had a gander at other sites and it is brutal. Because of this LE is forced to spend time stamping out rumors and finger-pointing.

Another issue I see with the new SM dimension is that there may be hundreds, if not thousands, of tips turned in to LE based on these speculations. These tips have to be sifted through, possibly causing LE to spend precious resources and man hours following up on each and every piece of paper and every single phone message with tips from the public that could be used pursuing the killer. How many of these tips would never even be turned in if we had answers to the most basic of questions, like cause of death, for instance.

I totally understand that LE needs to keep details of the case close to the breast, but ALL of them? I wonder if they aren't doing themselves a bit of a disservice in doing so.

All of the above is moooooooooooo and imo, of course.

I too think that release of info as to the weapon, or cause of death, could provide new info from the public. Maybe someone knows a person who bought or borrowed (or sold or "lost") such a weapon recently. In some of the shows I have seen, tips came in that lead to perps when LE let it be known they were seeking a certain type of gun, for instance, or anyone who recently purchased a new hunting knife, etc...anyway I guess LE has their reasons for releasing so little. I hope it does not come back to haunt them if the case does grow cold and memories fade.
 
BIRD, you mean a clue from the scanner leads you to believe SA, right? (BTW sometimes SA is intended and even attempted but no DNA left if the perp didn't actually end up leaving any as in ... no outcome, literally, if I may be so blunt, ... IYKWIM).
 
Shire, here's the problem I have with any opinion, including mine...
LE has given basically zero information to the public to form an opinion. Or rather to form one based on facts.

To answer you question, I think there is a clue to be considered based on what I heard transcribing LE transmissions.

Fact:

On March 16th LE said some alibis were not adding up
On March 17th they issued a probable cause search warrant on the home of RL
RL stopped cooperating with the police
LE greatly reduced the number of people involved in the investigation within days of that search
RLis involved in the criminal investigation which i don't know how when he is not talking. that kind of makes it hard to be "involved".

LE has not cleared RL


it is quite easy to form an opinion based on fact.
 
Maybe BG pushed Abby off the bridge and when he said "Down the Hill" he was telling Libby where to go to help her friend. So maybe when they found Abby and her neck was broken for example, then he decided to kill Libby and cover it all up by dragging them across the river and finishing off Abby???
He could have said help me get her across creek to cemetery I have a vehicle there to take her to hospital and it was a lie.
 
Just thought I'd take a little random survey...

1. How many of you think BG is local and has your theory changed, and if so why?

2. If you do believe he is local why do you think he has not been identified yet?

3. If you do not believe he is local what do you believe brought him to Delphi?
 
Fact:

On March 16th LE said some alibis were not adding up
On March 17th they issued a probable cause search warrant on the home of RL
RL stopped cooperating with the police
LE greatly reduced the number of people involved in the investigation within days of that search
RLis involved in the criminal investigation which i don't know how when he is not talking. that kind of makes it hard to be "involved".

LE has not cleared RL


it is quite easy to form an opinion based on fact.
Yes that is why I think solving either the Flora arson or this murder could help . To have six young girls killed is very strange IMO.

I also believe it wasn't RL's alibi that they were talking about.

Could you link to the alibis quote and also to the reduction in LE numbers within days of the search?

TIA.
 
Just thought I'd take a little random survey...

1. How many of you think BG is local and has your theory changed, and if so why?

2. If you do believe he is local why do you think he has not been identified yet?

3. If you do not believe he is local what do you believe brought him to Delphi?

#3...I think he was/is a trolling serial killer. Why he chose the Delphi area will only be known when he is caught. Maybe a past connection to the area.

The active cemetery where he may have parked has always caught my interest. Possibly a connection to a more or less recent burial.

moo, of course
 
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