Israel - Palestinian militants launch massive attack, 7 Oct 2023 #14

[Friday Fan]

Why break the "pause", why stop the exchange negotiations?

Because they're Hamas.

 

[JennieM]

41 min ago

Analysis: US seeks to reshape Israel’s war on Hamas​

Analysis from CNN's Stephen Collinson

Hours before Israel said it had resumed combat operations against Hamas, the United States pressured its ally to shield Palestinian civilians in one of the most significant diplomatic moves yet in the more than 50-day conflict.

The question now, if a seven-day truce is permanently broken, is whether Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu’s government is prepared to listen.

Secretary of State Antony Blinken laid out American requirements both at a televised press conference in Tel Aviv and in private talks in Jerusalem with Netanyahu and his war cabinet.

“I underscored the imperative of the United States that the massive loss of civilian life and displacement of the scale that we saw in Northern Gaza not be repeated in the South," Blinken said hours before the lapsing of a seven-day pause in the fighting.
“I made clear that before Israel resumes major military operations, it must put in place humanitarian civilian protection plans that minimize further casualties of innocent Palestinians,” Blinken added, specifically mentioning the need to safeguard hospitals, powers stations and facilities.

Blinken's frank tone suggests that the White House is not completely buying Israel’s assurances that it takes every possible step to alleviate civilian casualties in its response to the October 7 Hamas terror attack that killed 1,200 people.

Blinken noted bluntly, for instance, that he told Netanyahu: “Intent matters. But so does the result.”

Blinken said that Netanyahu had agreed to take steps to protect civilians. But two key questions now will be whether those efforts are genuine and effective and to what extent the Israeli prime minister and his military brass are willing to accommodate US concerns.

Read more about the US approach here.

December 1, 2023 Israel-Hamas war

Israel and Hamas continue to negotiate through mediators over the potential release of hostages from Gaza that would prompt another pause in hostilities, sources say.

edition.cnn.com

 

[JennieM]

Posted at 6:20

BREAKING​

At least six Palestinians killed in Rafah: Hamas-run health ministry​

At least six Palestinians were killed Friday morning in an Israeli air raid in Rafah city, a city in southern Gaza, a spokesman from the Hamas-run health ministry told AFP.

Separately, two children were killed in air raids on Gaza City in the north, the news agency said, quoting Fadel Naim, a doctor with Al-Ahli hospital.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/world-middle-east-67584895

 

[ReadySet]

No matter how many try to blame Israel, it will not erase the terror group Hamas’s culpability in raping, butchering, beheading and incinerating babies, women, men and elderly on 10/7 and taking hostages.

More than one thing can be true at the same time.
Hamas are evil monsters.
Innocent children are dying in Gaza.
Both those statements are true.
Expessing empathy for children in Gaza is not blaming Israel or trying to erase Hamas's culpability or being anti-semitic.

"Either/Or" "All or Nothing" thinking does not get us far. Nothing is wrong with expressing empathy for innocent children.

It goes without saying that what Hamas is doing is barbaric and evil. Israel is justified in stopping them.
I stand with Secretary Blinkin. He is on the ground and talking with all the players and knows what's going on more than any of us here.

 

[SouthAussie]

I read Al Jazeera, but I don't think that's how politics work in Israel. I've been following elections for about 8 years. It's based on party. Whichever party gets the most votes makes a coalition with other parties. So many times I thought Netanyahu was out because Likud didn't have enough seats. It the coalition doesn't form, secondary leader will bring groups together. Usually the secondary leader is Netanyahu. Then he's PM again. When he loses, he wins!

Yes, that is how it works here also. We elect a party, not a person. And the party elects their own leader.

There are times when there is what is called a leadership spill, and the party ousts the leader, mid-term. Sometimes it happens more than once. Thankfully, that doesn't happen too often.

Lots of positioning goes on behind closed parliamentary doors. So I can understand what the analyst is saying, though it is anyone's guess if it is actually the case. Zoran Kusovac just has more experience than many.

imo

 

[Momoffourboys]

More than one thing can be true at the same time.
Hamas are evil monsters.
Innocent children are dying in Gaza.
Both those statements are true.
Expessing empathy for children in Gaza is not blaming Israel or trying to erase Hamas's culpability or being anti-semitic.

"Either/Or" "All or Nothing" thinking does not get us far. Nothing is wrong with expressing empathy for innocent children.

It goes without saying that what Hamas is doing is barbaric and evil. Israel is justified in stopping them.
I stand with Secretary Blinkin. He is on the ground and talking with all the players and knows what's going on more than any of us here.

Your previous post and mine only mentioned Israel’s government failing its’ people. Not any of the above.
Blaming Israel for the massacre of 10/7 is still blaming Israel for Hamas’s act of terror.

 

[ReadySet]

<modsnip: Quoted post was removed>
I am saying that no matter how successful Israel is in getting rid of Hamas, (and they are justified in that attempt) they are culpable for their intelligence failure. They will have to deal with that at some point.

 

[NoSpoonFeeding]

Because they're Hamas.

Yes, but the point was you said they still had plenty of hostages and they want more prisoners released.

Why did they not continue the 3 prisoners for 1 hostage deal?
Perhaps they don't have access to hostages and/or the hostages aren't in good enough condition to be released. Or far more of them are deceased and they are re-engaging to create a cover for the deaths.

 

[Vern]

No matter how many they kill in Gaza, they can't erase their failure to keep their fellow Israelis safe.

No matter how hard people try to blame Israel's admitted intelligence failures, it was Hamas terrorists who targetted, found, beat, terrified, raped, tortured and executed innocent civilians on 7 October 2023. They are the ones who pulled the triggers. They are the ones who massacred them.

Hamas is proud to wear that blood. And it is theirs to wear.

Imagine: I failed to lock my front door last night, even though I know bad people exist in the world. The fact a murderer entered my home and killed me is my fault. NO; it is NOT. To state anything different is simply victim blaming and, in this case, is just another attempt for those of that mind to "blame Israel for the other side can do no wrong".

 

[Vern]

They took responsibility for the terror attack in Jerusalem this morning, released a statement that 10/7 was just a practice run, refused to supply list of hostages for release and then fired rockets on two Israeli towns. IMO There was no intention to continue with the ceasefire even if they had every hostage in front of them.

Hamas has taken the opportunity to restock. They've had and still have hostages & POWs right in front of them.

The tactical pause wasn't about those hostages & POWs though; it was about Hamas getting a replenishment of the supplies it needed. That has been done so they have breached the Ceasefire Agreement.

When Hamas needs to replenish again, they will miraculously "find" some more live hostages for bartering once again.

IMO: Watch this space.

 

[Sillybilly]

ADMIN NOTE:

Please move on from this hyper focusing on what someone did or did not mean. Nobody should have to explain their opinion. It is very tiresome for other members and guests to watch this back and forth and back and forth.

 

[Momoffourboys]

Massive Hamas rocket barrage on Israeli civilians in the south.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1730485065216327734

 

[margarita25]

Rsbm According to the aunt, Tal Idan, the five hostages were kept in aboveground apartments, changing locations at least once.

Marking for reference.

“According to the aunt, Tal Idan, the five hostages were kept in aboveground apartments, changing locations at least once.“

(I was wondering about the aboveground apartments when re-watching the Al-Rantisi hospital videos last night, thinking about tunnel route - Ref: Israel - Palestinian militants launch massive attack, 7 Oct 2023 #13)

(Eta: I saw an unrelated documentary where children were held in aboveground apartments, which reminded me of it)

——

Eta2: Also thinking about when they were moved, what the transportation logistics were like.

 

[NoSpoonFeeding]

In the below-cited article, Hamas stockpiles 200,000 gallons of fuel. I'm not always in total agreement with Blinken, but I stand with him on this. How much of the recent humanitarian fuel was hijacked by Hamas? To launch rockets, to end the cease-fire.

From the UN article about fuel shortage north Gaza:

"Despite the pause, there has been almost no improvement in the access of residents in the north to water, as most of the main water production facilities remain shut down, due to the lack of fuel and some also due to damages."

From NBC news Nov 1, 2023:

As U.N. officials say hospitals in Gaza are running dangerously low on fuel, Hamas is maintaining a stockpile of more than 200,000 gallons of fuel for the rockets it fires into Israel and the generators that provide clean air and electricity to its network of underground tunnels, according to U.S. officials, current and former Israeli officials and academics

“Hamas has its own supply stockpile of fuel,” Blinken told the Senate Appropriations Committee. “If it cared a whit about the people of Gaza, it would make sure itself that it used that fuel to have the hospitals be able to operate the incubators, stay turned on, etc. But, of course, it doesn’t.”

Hamas is hoarding vast amounts of fuel as Gaza hospitals run low, U.S. officials say

U.N. officials warned that aid groups, water treatment plants and bakeries in the enclave are running dangerously low on fuel.

www.nbcnews.com

 

[margarita25]

Hostages Freed From Gaza Recount Violence, Hunger and Fear

Some of the hostages were held in sweltering tunnels deep beneath the Gaza Strip, while others were squeezed into tight quarters with strangers or confined in isolation. There were children forced to appear in hostage videos, and others forced to watch gruesome footage of Hamas’ Oct. 7 terrorist...

news.yahoo.com

From above:

“Survivors of kidnapping say the road ahead may be long for those released. But in the short term, some may feel uncomplicated relief. “The initial emotions after being rescued are joy and relief,” said Elizabeth Smart, a child safety activist who was kidnapped from her Salt Lake City bedroom in 2002 when she was 14 and held captive for nine months, during which she was raped. “It’s a miracle, and it’s an answer to prayer.””


I was actually just thinking about Elizabeth Smart today when I saw Mia Shem and how broken she looked. I thought about Elizabeth Smart and Amanda Berry, Gina DeJesus, and Michelle Knight. I am of course hoping the released hostages may too be able to find as much strength, happiness, and healing as possible.

 

[Dotta]

Mossad is about to be very busy:
Israel Plans to Kill Hamas Leaders Around the World After War

WSJ News Exclusive | Israel Plans to Kill Hamas Leaders Around the World After War

The nation’s top spy agencies intend to hunt down militants living in Lebanon, Turkey and Qatar.

www.wsj.com

https://x.com/JenGriffinFNC/status/1730453042347254152?s=20

What a pity they were not so busy before the attack

JMO

 

[Vern]

In the below-cited article, Hamas stockpiles 200,000 gallons of fuel. I'm not always in total agreement with Blinken, but I stand with him on this. How much of the recent humanitarian fuel was hijacked by Hamas? To launch rockets, to end the cease-fire.

From the UN article about fuel shortage north Gaza:

"Despite the pause, there has been almost no improvement in the access of residents in the north to water, as most of the main water production facilities remain shut down, due to the lack of fuel and some also due to damages."

From NBC news Nov 1, 2023:

As U.N. officials say hospitals in Gaza are running dangerously low on fuel, Hamas is maintaining a stockpile of more than 200,000 gallons of fuel for the rockets it fires into Israel and the generators that provide clean air and electricity to its network of underground tunnels, according to U.S. officials, current and former Israeli officials and academics

“Hamas has its own supply stockpile of fuel,” Blinken told the Senate Appropriations Committee. “If it cared a whit about the people of Gaza, it would make sure itself that it used that fuel to have the hospitals be able to operate the incubators, stay turned on, etc. But, of course, it doesn’t.”

Hamas is hoarding vast amounts of fuel as Gaza hospitals run low, U.S. officials say

U.N. officials warned that aid groups, water treatment plants and bakeries in the enclave are running dangerously low on fuel.

www.nbcnews.com

I just want to point out that Northern Gaza's power comes via fuel (generators or otherwise).

I noticed in all the footage of the soon-to-be-released hostages that during the handovers in northern Gaza the past two days the Palestinian onlookers certainly seemed to have access to fuel/power to charge up all those cell phones etc.

So they've at least got 'some' of that humanitarian fuel delivery. That should have been taken as a sign that Hamas has completed it's own replenishment ... that the innocent Gazans doing the filming now had access to fuel/power to reharge phones.

 

[Vern]

What a pity they were not so busy before the attack

JMO

Then the world would be all over them and hating on them for "extra-judicial murders".

They're Israel - they just can't, and never will win with some people.

 

[margarita25]

“Nurit Cooper, 79, was held in the warren of tunnels beneath Gaza with four older Israelis in the early days of the war. They were kept in a small room with little light or ventilation, according to Rotem Cooper, her son.

Nurit Cooper’s shoulder was broken “as part of the brutality of the kidnapping,” her son said. The group of hostages, all in their 70s and 80s, he added, struggled to walk in the dark, sandy tunnels.

Nurit Cooper and another hostage, Yocheved Lifshitz, 85, were released last month, but their husbands are still captive in Gaza. Cooper’s husband, Amiram Cooper, 84, is the among oldest of the remaining hostages.The captors took his glasses and have deprived him of needed medication, his son said.”

[…]

BBM:

“It was in that room, Mor said, that the family learned that Ruth Munder’s son, Keren’s brother, had died. They were listening to a report on Israeli radio, which they could occasionally hear.”

*noting for ref they could hear the radio sometimes

Hostages Freed From Gaza Recount Violence, Hunger and Fear

Some of the hostages were held in sweltering tunnels deep beneath the Gaza Strip, while others were squeezed into tight quarters with strangers or confined in isolation. There were children forced to appear in hostage videos, and others forced to watch gruesome footage of Hamas’ Oct. 7 terrorist...

news.yahoo.com

 

[Dotta]

Then the world would be all over them and hating on them for "extra-judicial murders".

I doubt it.
Secret service does what a secret service does all the time - protects the nation.
And prevents attacks.

Especially if forewarned.

JMO