"Jersey" and MW #2

[In da Middle]

Since we haven't heard that she or JI have any record of drug use, it's also possible he offered to do yardwork, or odd jobs around the house, or to hook her up with MW for babysitting. Something innocent that would allow her to trust him enough to let him use the bathroom or get a cup for whatever. That seems consistent with generally friendly demeanor and the good mood she seemed to be in at the store even before the wine was served. There's no evidence Lisa was seriously ill, or that she was about to harm her - she was busy things for her. But she seems like a person who would have been easy for Jersey to con.

BBM
This could also account for the number being on her hand (if it really was).

 

[StrayKat]

The house the lady gave him a ride to is almost directly across the street from them. Like 1/2 lot from directly. The house he squatted at and broke into is on the same side of the street and up about 6 houses.
Sorry directly across from the drinking buddies house

Also, that house he broke into and was squatting(sleeping) at, is the one that has the water well (or cistern) that was searched and the house was torn down afterwards. JMO

 

[dovebar]

I have a sudden surge of pity for all the kids having to live in this neighborhood, and all the other kids in the country who have to live around such sketchy creeps.

 

[katydid23]

I did change it to across the street from drinking buddies house, but he could still be casing from there. I am also wondering about people he associated with in that house that could have been familiar too. They could easily be aquainted but I sure hope not in an intimate way Blek! He may have been familiar with drinking buddies family also.

It does not really matter if it is across the street or across and down a few houses. You can watch and lurk any neighbor if you set your mind to it. My best friend used to have a secret place on the roof of her house. [ it was like a flat space between the garage and the house, covered by a big tree limb.]We spent a couple of years chilling out up there. When we sat up there we could see and hear everyone on the street coming and going. If we were burglars or rapists it would have been scary for the neighbors because we knew when everyone came and went. If someone wants to watch your family they can do it.

 

[katydid23]

I have a sudden surge of pity for all the kids having to live in this neighborhood, and all the other kids in the country who have to live around such sketchy creeps.

We have a few members here who do live in that neighborhood. It is actually a really nice subdivision and a very nice place to raise a family. IMO, every plce has weirdos and creeps. Even the most exclusive neighborhoods.

 

[StrayKat]

We have a few members here who do live in that neighborhood. It is actually a really nice subdivision and a very nice place to raise a family. IMO, every plce has weirdos and creeps. Even the most exclusive neighborhoods.

And aren't the nice neighborhoods the ones that are targeted by thieves and robbers?

 

[Tricia]

Please do not comment on others being snide or post that you are going to report someone.

These types of comments have nothing to do with the discussion.

If you see a post that is snide or you feel a post is out of line or violates our TOS then click on the red triangle in the upper right hand corner of the post and report it.

Please do not hesitate to report a post but also remember not to talk about it on the board.

Thank you and keep up the great posting.

 

[twall]

I see what you mean. I think JT may just be a serial killer. I'll tell you why....look at all the criteria for a serial killer that fits him.... I've bolded those I feel similar, the rest we just don't know about....yet.

Fourteen Characteristics of a Serial Killer

Below is a list of the 14 most common traits of serial killers.

1. Over 90 percent of serial killers are male.

2. They tend to be intelligent, with IQ's in the "bright normal" range.

3. They do poorly in school, have trouble holding down jobs, and often work as unskilled laborers.

4. They tend to come from markedly unstable families.

5. As children, they are abandoned by their fathers and raised by domineering mothers.

6. Their families often have criminal, psychiatric and alcoholic histories.

7. They hate their fathers and mothers.

8. They are commonly abused as children — psychologically, physically and sexually. Often the abuse is by a family member.

9. Many serial killers spend time in institutions as children and have records of early psychiatric problems.

10. They have high rates of suicide attempts.

11. From an early age, many are intensely interested in voyeurism, fetishism, and sado-masochistic .

12. More than 60 percent of serial killers wet their beds beyond the age of 12.

13. Many serial killers are fascinated with fire starting.

14. They are involved with sadistic activity or tormenting small creatures.

Source: Internal Association of Forensic Science, an article written by FBI Special Agent Robert K. Ressler
"The Serial Killer," Harold Schechter

Where did you find the information about Jersey's childhood and family history listed in #6 and #9? Link(s) please.

 

[twall]

The below is a portion of a transcript from the Nancy Grace show. The subject they are speaking about is the neighbor's husband but I feel it also relates to Jersey since LE said the same thing about him. I think J. Spellman is right on about the LE lingo. JMO

GRACE: Is it true, Jim Spellman, that cops have spoken to the guy and have ruled him out?

SPELLMAN: They have spoken to him, yes, and they say -- this is the common language they use, that they have spoken to the person, he answered their questions, and they`ve moved on. They won`t say that they`ve cleared anyone. You know, "cleared" doesn`t really mean anything. They won`t say that. They keep open the avenue to always come back. But they have told us that, yes -- and in fact, they -- about that, that particular individual in relation to that sighting.

http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/1111/02/ng.01.html

 

[tink92]

Also, that house he broke into and was squatting(sleeping) at, is the one that has the water well (or cistern) that was searched and the house was torn down afterwards. JMO

Is this true?...That house they searched with the well is the one Jersey was squatting at??...If so..he is defo involved...Just too many things have jersey all over them.

 

[hambirg]

Since we haven't heard that she or JI have any record of drug use, it's also possible he offered to do yardwork, or odd jobs around the house, or to hook her up with MW for babysitting. Something innocent that would allow her to trust him enough to let him use the bathroom or get a cup for whatever. That seems consistent with generally friendly demeanor and the good mood she seemed to be in at the store even before the wine was served. There's no evidence Lisa was seriously ill, or that DB was about to harm her - she was busy buying things for her. But she seems like a person who would have been easy for Jersey to con.

:cough:nottrue:cough:

If Jersey or MW, for that matter, was anywhere near or in the house that night with DB's knowledge, why on earth wouldn't we have heard about it??!!! It makes no sense! I don't believe that MW was involved, other than receiving that phone call on a phone that she apparently shares with 7 other people. Because don't you think if she "fits the criteria" (which btw, so does DB) that DB and JI would have reported that? Nevermind, if they actually had her number! Why on earth would LE have had to track her down through a Craigslist ad?

 

[writer7]

eta: just using this post as a jumping point, btw!

I see what you mean. I think JT may just be a serial killer. I'll tell you why....look at all the criteria for a serial killer that fits him.... I've bolded those I feel similar, the rest we just don't know about....yet.

Fourteen Characteristics of a Serial Killer

Below is a list of the 14 most common traits of serial killers.

1. Over 90 percent of serial killers are male.

2. They tend to be intelligent, with IQ's in the "bright normal" range.

3. They do poorly in school, have trouble holding down jobs, and often work as unskilled laborers.

4. They tend to come from markedly unstable families.

5. As children, they are abandoned by their fathers and raised by domineering mothers.

6. Their families often have criminal, psychiatric and alcoholic histories.

7. They hate their fathers and mothers.

8. They are commonly abused as children — psychologically, physically and sexually. Often the abuse is by a family member.

9. Many serial killers spend time in institutions as children and have records of early psychiatric problems.

10. They have high rates of suicide attempts.

11. From an early age, many are intensely interested in voyeurism, fetishism, and sado-masochistic .

12. More than 60 percent of serial killers wet their beds beyond the age of 12.

13. Many serial killers are fascinated with fire starting.

14. They are involved with sadistic activity or tormenting small creatures.

Source: Internal Association of Forensic Science, an article written by FBI Special Agent Robert K. Ressler
"The Serial Killer," Harold Schechter

Respectfully, there really is a huge difference between 'doesn't meet the profile' and 'not enough information known'. The poster who brought up the profile was stating that MW does not meet the profile. Posts after that were all responding to that specific assertion.

We don't know about many things on that profile with regards to MW. I wouldn't have gone so far as to say that we know she doesn't fit it. Just imho

 

[katshep]

I'm sorry, it's simply not logical to note - in red - where MW matches multiple elements of the profile you posted of a baby snatcher and then say "she doesn't fit the profile of a baby snatcher."

I'm sorry that you posted a profile that says "Is usually female of “childbearing” age (range now 12 to 53) and often overweight." and then you later said that descriptor doesn't count.

I'm sorry you posted a profile that says "Usually lives in the community where the abduction takes place." and later said that descriptor doesn't count.

The fact remains this: WE DO KNOW that MW meets multiple elements of the profile of a baby abductor as noted directly in the profile you so helpfully posted. We DO NOT KNOW if she meets more or not, because, as I said in my post:

It could very well be that MW meets more of the criteria than we're currently aware of. Example, she may meet the elements of a home abductor, including:

• Is more likely to be single while claiming to have a partner. (while we don't know what she's claimed her status to be now, we do know she's claimed Jersey to have been a "partner" - I believe she said boyfriend or dated or some version of Sig Other)
• Often targets a mother whom she may find by visiting healthcare facilities and tries to meet the target family. (There's been reports that DB had MW's number written on her hand, maybe they had met.)
• Often both plans the abduction and brings a weapon, although the weapon may not be used. (she could have done this but we won't know this until we have more info.)

We do not know whether MW meets still other criteria or not. MW may meet more of them or she may not; only time can tell.

She also appears to match four or more significant criteria for someone who had a reactive attachment relationship disorder due to abuse, abandonment and parental abduction as a child. This is a precursor to anti-social personality disorder. People with these disorders have a much higher propensity for criminal behavior as they have been children without a conscience.
For those who have been offended by my saying she is overweight, just look at her MySpace page. Adult victims of child abuse have a high BMI. A 1993 study reported in the Journal of Internal Medicine examined a possible relation of obesity to abuse showed that 60% of 131 patients seen in a general medical practice who reported a history of abuse as children were 50 pounds or more overweight compared with 28% of a control group. Abuse survivors overeat to control depression.

 

[hambirg]

Oh, I forgot to add that DB can't remember that she talked to the creepy, homeless, drifter who roams the neighborhood, Jersey, the night that her baby was kidnapped. They possibly shared a glass of wine, she let him use her bathroom and took his gf's phone number before he left. That's a pretty big nugget to leave out.

But they can remember, after LE finds the receipt and the video at the store is out, that she bought a box of wine for a "family event." Oh wait, she drank it. She can remember that she last saw Lisa at 10:30. . .wait. . .6:40. . .definitely 6:40, afrter we learn about the 8:30 phone call. They can remember the kitten was on the bed when JI came home. . .after we learn about the cadaver dog hit. See where this is going? If Jersey was anywhere near that house that night, I don't believe that we wouldn't have heard about it.

Same goes for MW. If they actually didn't have anything to hide and suspected MW did something with BL, there is NO reason they wouldn't have come forward with that bit of info.

 

[writer7]

About that 8:30 call... The women had been out on the stoop drinking for about 2 hours by then, right? Suppose (just a theory!) Jersey had noticed the drinking and did go in to try to steal some things while the adults were occupied. He steals all the cell phones. He goes back outside and calls his old house to say, 'Yo, I got you folks some phones!'

Then (in this theory) after chatting about how easy that was because the women really aren't paying any attention, he mentions that he could have snatched the baby, too.

Or, he thinks that he'll surely be able to pull off a rape after more folks go to bed. The women are very drunk, right (in this theory)?

So he comes back later. In the rape-motive scenario, he finds the baby in bed with the passed out mom, the baby wakes, and he smothers her right then/there so mom doesn't wake up with him standing there (or so the boys don't wake, etc).

 

[katshep]

She identifies as the victim of parental abduction? Are you trying to fit her into two profiles? Is she the victim of abduction and took Lisa just cuz she's nuts.....because the profile for individuals who take babies didn't site "victim of parental kidnapping".

Desperate woman looking for a baby of her own
Victim of parental kidnapping out for ???
Psycho Clown Possee gang member gettin' thrills

No one is obligated to pick just one....but it helps with clarity.

Again, there is established research on transgenerational abuse.Those who have been violently abused often become those who became aggressively anti-social. Korbin writing in Journal of Child Neglect and Abuse (1986)who studied women imprisoned for “fatal child maltreatment” found seven out of nine had experienced child abuse. MW not only identifies as a victim of parental abduction, but reports being physically abused by her father. BBM

BTW, you are missing another point, she twice said in that interview, "If they find the baby..."

 

[katshep]

Hey dove....Pens and I were referring to something else completely. Just one line in a post of mine. You must be talking about something else....

Right...:innocent:

 

[Donjeta]

I see what you mean. I think JT may just be a serial killer. I'll tell you why....look at all the criteria for a serial killer that fits him.... I've bolded those I feel similar, the rest we just don't know about....yet.

Fourteen Characteristics of a Serial Killer

Below is a list of the 14 most common traits of serial killers.

1. Over 90 percent of serial killers are male.

2. They tend to be intelligent, with IQ's in the "bright normal" range.

I had forgotten which thread I had clicked on and came upon this post, and I thought, whoa, I don't trust the attorney but I hadn't got him pegged as a serial killer... :crazy: I need more coffee.

 

[tink92]

About that 8:30 call... The women had been out on the stoop drinking for about 2 hours by then, right? Suppose (just a theory!) Jersey had noticed the drinking and did go in to try to steal some things while the adults were occupied. He steals all the cell phones. He goes back outside and calls his old house to say, 'Yo, I got you folks some phones!'

Then (in this theory) after chatting about how easy that was because the women really aren't paying any attention, he mentions that he could have snatched the baby, too.

Or, he thinks that he'll surely be able to pull off a rape after more folks go to bed. The women are very drunk, right (in this theory)?

So he comes back later. In the rape-motive scenario, he finds the baby in bed with the passed out mom, the baby wakes, and he smothers her right then/there so mom doesn't wake up with him standing there (or so the boys don't wake, etc).

You know this makes sense to me...not sure about the rape motivation..could be..or..could be he waited till the other drinking neighbour had finally gone in about 11.30 then entered debs home again..lights on looking for stuff to rob..he knew Deb was drunk..and then the rest.

I think your theory is a very good one...and fits in with the timeline if Jersey was watching the drinkers and entered about 11.30..then seen at 12.15 at sprinkler house carrying baby.

 

[sorrell skye]

She also appears to match four or more significant criteria for someone who had a reactive attachment relationship disorder due to abuse, abandonment and parental abduction as a child. This is a precursor to anti-social personality disorder. People with these disorders have a much higher propensity for criminal behavior as they have been children without a conscience.
For those who have been offended by my saying she is overweight, just look at her MySpace page. Adult victims of child abuse have a high BMI. A 1993 study reported in the Journal of Internal Medicine examined a possible relation of obesity to abuse showed that 60% of 131 patients seen in a general medical practice who reported a history of abuse as children were 50 pounds or more overweight compared with 28% of a control group. Abuse survivors overeat to control depression.

I don't know any competent psychiatrists or psychologists who would diagnose without interviewing the patient at length (including conducting a mental status examination), let alone any competent psychiatrists or psychologists who would render a diagnosis based solely upon information gleaned from media interviews, social networking pages, or photographs.