JonBenet's Dream Team

[Ravyn]

Can I ask a question if the autopsy says JonBenet died of strangluation wouldn't the garrote be consider the murder weapon....But with the flashlight being found with fingerprints being wiped off this could be what is associated with the head wound....

 

[Ravyn]

Now putting this here, if Judge Carnes made a ruling on the R's words alone...Then was the R's sworn in to tell the truth and nothing but the truth...

1)The Ramseys also learned in 2000 that prosecutors say they have the results of fiber tests indicating that fibers similar to the ones in the red sweater-jacket she had been wearing the day before her daughter was killed are consistent with fibers from in the paint tray from which the brush used to fashion the ligature found around her daughter's neck was found, in the brush that was a part of the ligature, and "tied into" the ligature

2)Patsy Ramsey, for example, was told by prosecutors in 2000 that the Ramsey's son, Burke, and a friend of his had both testified before the grand jury that Burke owned a Hi-Tec boot. Nonetheless, Judge Carnes writes in her ruling, based on assertions made to her last summer by the Ramseys, that that the owner of the Hi-Tec boot has never been identified. Wolf didn't dispute that, but then he didn't attend the interview during which prosecutors told Patsy about Burke and his friend's grand jury testimony.

Why didn't they tell the truth in front of Judge Carnes cause this case was heard in 2003...

 

[madeleine]

Can I ask a question if the autopsy says JonBenet died of strangluation wouldn't the garrote be consider the murder weapon....But with the flashlight being found with fingerprints being wiped off this could be what is associated with the head wound....

Let's say strangulation is the COD.Forget about the head bash for a second.Can we be sure it was the garrote??If it was applied during the staging then it's only meant to cover up something else.

We don't know if it was the GARROTE she was strangled with.

 

[madeleine]

I didn't hear any cop or any DA people officially saying the garrote is the MURDER WEAPON.
Did any of you?maybe I missed it...

 

[DeeDee249]

Can I ask a question if the autopsy says JonBenet died of strangluation wouldn't the garrote be consider the murder weapon....But with the flashlight being found with fingerprints being wiped off this could be what is associated with the head wound....

The autopsy did not list strangulation as the only COD. It said "ligature strangulation IN ASSOCIATION WITH cerebriocranial trauma".
The ligature/garrote is not stated specifically as the murder weapon because Mayer couldn't be certain it WAS the murder weapon. LE has failed to determine the actual cause of the skull fracture. If they had today's methods available and IF they actually were allowed to do so by the DA, modern forensics could have determined if there were minute particles of the housing of the heavy flashlight thought to be the weapon. Because of the fact that it was wiped down, opened up and the batteries also wiped down, I feel this is the bludgeon that was used. But then- the DA's office was SO anxious for the coroner to release JB's body so that her mother could have that pristine little corpse to dress up in a pageant dress and tiara for the last time, and so that they could get her in the ground as soon as possible.
This way, either a parental request or a warrant would be needed for exhumation- not likely to be given. Once she was buried, her secrets were buried with her. No one in the RST wanted that exhumation.

 

[Tadpole12]

Now working this scenario...Where would the intruder on first floor make an escape...And two in the basement would have to be close to the same size to fit out of the window..And the one problem I have here, that FW said he moved the suitcase in front of the window...So what would be the escape plan if caught...Cause they had to think ahead...

Heyya Ravyn.

Easier to enter than exit, eh?
a window like that.

 

[Tadpole12]

Let's say strangulation is the COD.Forget about the head bash for a second.Can we be sure it was the garrote??If it was applied during the staging then it's only meant to cover up something else.

We don't know if it was the GARROTE she was strangled with.

Hi Madeleine.

I was wondering, subsequent? to our groups many discussions about the skill or specific knowledge of knots that it would take to construct the garotte ....
Perhaps SD could answer me this, but with that length of rope between the knotted loop around JBR's neck and the paint brush tied to the other end, how exactly is that a functional garotte?

 

[madeleine]

Hi Madeleine.

I was wondering, subsequent? to our groups many discussions about the skill or specific knowledge of knots that it would take to construct the garotte ....
Perhaps SD could answer me this, but with that length of rope between the knotted loop around JBR's neck and the paint brush tied to the other end, how exactly is that a functional garotte?

I THINK you would have to restrain the victim with your knee or the other hand ,not sure and then pull?

 

[Holdontoyourhat]

Can I ask a question if the autopsy says JonBenet died of strangluation wouldn't the garrote be consider the murder weapon....But with the flashlight being found with fingerprints being wiped off this could be what is associated with the head wound....

The autopsy stated COD as the strangulation associated with the headbash. The evidence tells us that the garrote and whatever blunt instrument are therefore the murder weapons. There is a lot RDI doesn't know about these murder weapons, to be claiming PR or JR used them. Where did the cord come from? Who owned the cord and blunt instrument? These are all UNKNOWNS that RDI claims over and over are knowns, and in doing so exposes a certain assumptiveness for the sake of furthering a POV.

 

[BBB167893]

Now putting this here, if Judge Carnes made a ruling on the R's words alone...Then was the R's sworn in to tell the truth and nothing but the truth...

1)The Ramseys also learned in 2000 that prosecutors say they have the results of fiber tests indicating that fibers similar to the ones in the red sweater-jacket she had been wearing the day before her daughter was killed are consistent with fibers from in the paint tray from which the brush used to fashion the ligature found around her daughter's neck was found, in the brush that was a part of the ligature, and "tied into" the ligature

2)Patsy Ramsey, for example, was told by prosecutors in 2000 that the Ramsey's son, Burke, and a friend of his had both testified before the grand jury that Burke owned a Hi-Tec boot. Nonetheless, Judge Carnes writes in her ruling, based on assertions made to her last summer by the Ramseys, that that the owner of the Hi-Tec boot has never been identified. Wolf didn't dispute that, but then he didn't attend the interview during which prosecutors told Patsy about Burke and his friend's grand jury testimony.

Why didn't they tell the truth in front of Judge Carnes cause this case was heard in 2003...

Unfortunately, Ravyn, that information was not available until after the discovery process in that suit had ended.

 

[BBB167893]

Perhaps SD could answer me this, but with that length of rope between the knotted loop around JBR's neck and the paint brush tied to the other end, how exactly is that a functional garotte?

madeleine explained it perfectly, Tadpole.

 

[redeemed]

How can you read a criminal's mind when you don't know where the cord or tape came from? Implied in your post is that cord and tape were on hand at the R's house, but you've no proof of that. Far as I'm concerned, the cord and tape and blunt instrument came and went with the intruder. You don't have any proof they didnt. You want so bad to show the R's guilty and you can't even source the murder weapon. Thats kind of a biggie, the murder weapon. At least that should be known to be owned by the parents if you're serious about accusing them. To not know where the murder weapon came from is an open door to the RDI theory.

How can you deduce this was 'suddenly decided' by a street walker? You seem to know way more than anybody else?

So the intruder brought his own cord, tape and instrument ...this means that, according to you, he did some PLANNING beforehand...
why then, did he not prepare a RN well in advance??? So he risks writing it in their home , knowing that it will provide JUICY EVIDENCE aginst him, but is smart enough to bring the above mentioned items so as not to leave any evidence.....
My gosh...I feel SO STUPID just writing that idea, let alone executing it...
:banghead:

 

[redeemed]

please dont tell me that writing the RN was a last minute decision which occurred on the spot (at the home) coz it doesnt make sense...when you go through the trouble of planning all that and carrying out such a perfect crime, it means you are a super genius criminal...and no average criminal will do such a stupid mistake, let alone a super genius one...

 

[redeemed]

Oh i forgot...maybe he DID prepare a RN (typed and to the point) and all that...he just FORGOT to bring it with him...
To be honest with you, had the RN NOT been written, then I think both RDI AND IDI would have reconsidered their theories....

 

[Holdontoyourhat]

So the intruder brought his own cord, tape and instrument ...this means that, according to you, he did some PLANNING beforehand...
why then, did he not prepare a RN well in advance??? So he risks writing it in their home , knowing that it will provide JUICY EVIDENCE aginst him, but is smart enough to bring the above mentioned items so as not to leave any evidence.....
My gosh...I feel SO STUPID just writing that idea, let alone executing it...
:banghead:

OK.

Why would anybody travel by car with an already written ransom note?

You're kidding me, right?

OK you're the perp driving along and in your car you have a package of cord, some black duct tape, a scepter, and a ransom note. You get pulled over for speeding or something. They find you don't have a valid DL (because you're from a SFF, remember?).

The officer arrests you because you don't have a valid DL. They search your car. They find duct tape, scepter, cord. Oh, but wait there's a RN addressed to "Mr. Ramsey".

Stupidity? Transporting a ransom note in a car is almost as stupid as transporting a dead child matching the description of a kidnapped child.

 

[DeeDee249]

Well, we do know who owned the flashlight. It belonged to the Rs. Patsy, when shown a crime photo of the drawer where they "usually kept" the flashlight, which LE pointed out to her was empty of the flashlight, she conceded it "could have been" theirs.
We also have a pretty good idea of who bought the tape and cord. If any new posters want to know, we'll rehash it, but hopefully they have done some "homework" before posting and already know about it.

 

[redeemed]

OK.

Why would anybody travel by car with an already written ransom note?

You're kidding me, right?

OK you're the perp driving along and in your car you have a package of cord, some black duct tape, a scepter, and a ransom note. You get pulled over for speeding or something. They find you don't have a valid DL (because you're from a SFF, remember?).

The officer arrests you because you don't have a valid DL. They search your car. They find duct tape, scepter, cord. Oh, but wait there's a RN addressed to "Mr. Ramsey".

Stupidity? Transporting a ransom note in a car is almost as stupid as transporting a dead child matching the description of a kidnapped child.

HOTYH- the scenario which you are describing is feasible, but a bit too far fetched, dont u think???

 

[redeemed]

OK.

Why would anybody travel by car with an already written ransom note?

You're kidding me, right?

OK you're the perp driving along and in your car you have a package of cord, some black duct tape, a scepter, and a ransom note. You get pulled over for speeding or something. They find you don't have a valid DL (because you're from a SFF, remember?).

The officer arrests you because you don't have a valid DL. They search your car. They find duct tape, scepter, cord. Oh, but wait there's a RN addressed to "Mr. Ramsey".

Stupidity? Transporting a ransom note in a car is almost as stupid as transporting a dead child matching the description of a kidnapped child.

Ok- so u r telling me that the perp was NOT planning to transport the dead body long before he committed the crime...
this means that, he was NOT PLANNING to kidnap JB..
WHY ASK FOR RANSOM WHEN YOU WERE NOT PLANNING TO KIDNAP ANYWAY...THIS IS A CONTRADICTORY THING, DONT U THINK?????

 

[redeemed]

If he wanted to kill only, then he didnt want to kidnap ( so why the RN which gives so much info about him and his SFF) ??

If he wanted to kidnap, then he didnt mean to kill... ( coz he wants the money-duh!!!)
If this was a kidnapping gone wrong, then why would he spend sooo much time overkilling her...kidnapping gone wrong means he had to kill her in a RUSH out of fear of getting caught...but from the evidence we can tell he spent a fair amount of time making the garrotte, looking for the paintbrush etc...when you are trying to silence someone so quickly , u wont have the time to do all of that..nor will you have the concentration to be able to do so...
kidnapping gone wrong?? how could it possibly have gone wrong?? Im assuming you mean that JB was starting to scream for help??? wouldnt it be easier (and quicker) for him to simply run out of the basement window (which he supposedly came through) than to spend time overkilling her???
why didnt he do that?? he already didnt leave any fingerprints etc (he's a genius , right) so why not take the easier option??

 

[redeemed]

The ONLY FEASIBLE IDI scenario, then, is that the intuder came to the house PURELY TO KILL...and he was simply playing mind games with them through the RN...it was to mislead...which means its fake....
since its fake, why should we accept the information in it at face value..why should we accept that he is part of a SFF? why should we accept that he was against JR ??

So the only IDI scenario which makes sense, IMO, is where the RN is fake...
and hence, if IDI- RN is fake
IF RDI, then the RN is fake
One conclusion we can DEFINITELY DRAW, THEN, WHETHER IDI OR RDI ,IS THAT THE RANSOM NOTE IS FAKE