Kiomarie and other issues

[Balthazar]

I think everyone that ever associated with KC, wonders who KC really is?

The job she said KC went to every day turned out to be a lie. The babysitter she said she took Caylee to every day was a lie. KC obviously didn't spend 31 days searching for Caylee. And on and on and on.

In view of the facts that came out, I think it would be natural for KC's friends to back up and look hard at her. She isn't who they thought she was. I don't blame them for not trusting whatever their perception of KC had been before July 15, 2008.

Oh, I agree with that - especially as the evidence began pouring out. What bothers me is KMTC saying she was prepared to loan Casey $150 dollars or so on July 9 (and yes, I know she changed her story that it was actually CM she talked to - but initially she was talking about Casey - as if loaning Casey the money was fine with her) and then telling LE that she thought Caylee was dead and buried on July 19, 2008. I just can't wrap my mind around how fast her opinion of Casey changed between July 15 and July 19. She hadn't even had a chance to talk to Casey yet because Casey was in jail.

 

[lin]

Oh, I agree with that - especially as the evidence began pouring out. What bothers me is KMTC saying she was prepared to loan Casey $150 dollars or so on July 9 (and yes, I know she changed her story that it was actually CM she talked to - but initially she was talking about Casey - as if loaning Casey the money was fine with her) and then telling LE that she thought Caylee was dead and buried on July 19, 2008. I just can't wrap my mind around how fast her opinion of Casey changed between July 15 and July 19. She hadn't even had a chance to talk to Casey yet because Casey was in jail.

A lot happened between those dates including it became national news that Caylee was missing and that KC had lied and lied and lied not just to everyone that knew her but also to LE that was trying to find Caylee. Also consider that at the time the loan was contemplated, Kio thought KC had a great job as an event planner and could pay her back easily.

 

[lin]

There was some young woman from the neighborhood who appeared once on TV and supported Casey and was never heard from again. She didn't seem to know her very well - just as a neighbor. But no one else came out to support Casey except her mom, dad and brother. None of her immediate friends or any of the people she was hanging out with supported her. I find that a fascinating aspect of this story.

There ya' go. I think you're answering your own question here. It didn't take long for most to figure out they wanted to back way off from KC. Even Annie who went to stay the night with KC during this time wasn't publically supporting her, iirc.

 

[I Din Doot]

Of course CA, GA, and LA couldn't see it ( because they all suffer from the same genetic disease(NUTS))).

Looking at the last 20 posts how could anyone figure KA is not nuts (exept JB)?

I suspect a good attorney, early on in this case, would have led to a plea of NUTS.\ NOTICE I SAID GOOD ATTORNEY>

 

[Brini]

Oh, I agree with that - especially as the evidence began pouring out. What bothers me is KMTC saying she was prepared to loan Casey $150 dollars or so on July 9 (and yes, I know she changed her story that it was actually CM she talked to - but initially she was talking about Casey - as if loaning Casey the money was fine with her) and then telling LE that she thought Caylee was dead and buried on July 19, 2008. I just can't wrap my mind around how fast her opinion of Casey changed between July 15 and July 19. She hadn't even had a chance to talk to Casey yet because Casey was in jail.

If I had a friend who didn't report a child missing for over a month, and then lied-- again-- I'd run, not walk, to the nearest cop shop. There IS no explanation. And, if there is ANY chance that the child is still alive, the sooner information gets to LE, the better.

And, also... why ask KC about it, if everything KC says is a lie?

Also MOST of KC's friends were people whom she hadn't known long. Newish, fairly superficial relationships.

KC seems change friends like she changes boyfriends.

Of the three friends who had a fairly long history with KC-- one was positive (JG) and two were immediately suspicious (Kio and Ryan).

My guess was that Kio and Ryan became suspicious fast BECAUSE they knew that KC is cold and untrustworthy from their shared, longer histories. They just knew her batter than did most people.

 

[nyvictoria]

I have a feeling that KC was manipulative enough to make KMTC think she was her best friend. Middle school is a time when KC was probably practicing her "people skills" and learning to manipulate those around her. Having a great deal of experience in secondary education, I can say that the middle school years are the playground for such social development.

Great post! I think you're 100% correct!

 

[Brini]

Of course CA, GA, and LA couldn't see it ( because they all suffer from the same genetic disease(NUTS))).

Looking at the last 20 posts how could anyone figure KA is not nuts (exept JB)?

I suspect a good attorney, early on in this case, would have led to a plea of NUTS.\ NOTICE I SAID GOOD ATTORNEY>

But, not LEGALLY nuts, honey.

She knew what she was doing, that it was illegal, and she tried to cover up.

Legally nuts is a tough sell, even for a REAL attorney. Even Andrea Yates almost didn't get legally nuts, and she's a Snickers bar with a looooong well-documented psych history.

 

[Snaz]

Of course CA, GA, and LA couldn't see it ( because they all suffer from the same genetic disease(NUTS))).

Looking at the last 20 posts how could anyone figure KA is not nuts (exept JB)?

I suspect a good attorney, early on in this case, would have led to a plea of NUTS.\ NOTICE I SAID GOOD ATTORNEY>

I must say.... this is really calling a spade a spade!!! And I LOVED IT!!! :applause:

 

[Oakley]

If I had a friend who didn't report a child missing for over a month, and then lied-- again-- I'd run, not walk, to the nearest cop shop. There IS no explanation.

And, also... why ask KC about it, if everything KC says is a lie?

Also MOST of KC's friends were people whom she hadn't known long. Newish, fairly superficial relationships.

KC seems change friends like she changes boyfriends.

Of the three friends who had a fairly long history with KC-- one was positive (JG) and two were immediately suspicious (Kio and Ryan).

My guess was that Kio and Ryan became suspicious fast BECAUSE they knew that KC is cold and untrustworthy from their shared, longer histories. They just knew her batter than did most people.

Even JG told LE in the very beginning, IIRC, that Casey was a habitual liar. I believe he really struggled with this because he cared for her deeply at one time and had a hard time reconciling the person he believed her to be with the person she eventually proved herself to be.

 

[Oakley]

Oh, I agree with that - especially as the evidence began pouring out. What bothers me is KMTC saying she was prepared to loan Casey $150 dollars or so on July 9 (and yes, I know she changed her story that it was actually CM she talked to - but initially she was talking about Casey - as if loaning Casey the money was fine with her) and then telling LE that she thought Caylee was dead and buried on July 19, 2008. I just can't wrap my mind around how fast her opinion of Casey changed between July 15 and July 19. She hadn't even had a chance to talk to Casey yet because Casey was in jail.

Don't know if this will help but I've got an early childhood 'friend' who has demonstrated sociopathic tendencies. She was indicted by a grand jury of 'stealing' $2,500 from a bank where she was employed, though she has vehemently denied any wrong doing. There have been numerous occasions of her lying and stealing through the years. I don't trust her at all, yet I care for her (in a strange way.) If she were to become implicated in an alleged crime, and I knew her character to be deficient in the past, would it be wrong of me to come forward with that information?

 

[Brini]

KC, like many sociopaths, is toxic. She burns everyone who gets close. Her oldest friends, like Ryan, who has known her all her life, are prolly very aware of that.

She's like the snake in the old Zen story of the snake who asked the frog for a ride across a river. The frog kindly and safely bore the snake across. At the end of the trip, the snake bit the frog, delivering a lethal dose of poison.

"Why did you do that?" cried the frog. "I helped you across! You would've drowned without me!"

"Ah, but you KNEW I was a snake, before you let me ride on your back," answered the serpent.

No disrespect to snakes, which are useful and respectable reptiles, intended.

 

[Brini]

Don't know if this will help but I've got an early childhood 'friend' who has demonstrated sociopathic tendencies. She was indicted by a grand jury of 'stealing' $2,500 from a bank where she was employed, though she has vehemently denied any wrong doing. There have been numerous occasions of her lying and stealing through the years. I don't trust her at all, yet I care for her (in a strange way.) If she were to become implicated in an alleged crime, and I knew her character to be deficient in the past, would it be wrong of me to come forward with that information?

Not if you felt that you knew something about the crime, based on her behavior.

LE would decide whether your information was relevant, or not.

The Unibomber's brother busted him.

 

[ExpectingUnicorns]

If I had a friend who didn't report a child missing for over a month, and then lied-- again-- I'd run, not walk, to the nearest cop shop. There IS no explanation.

And, also... why ask KC about it, if everything KC says is a lie?

Also MOST of KC's friends were people whom she hadn't known long. Newish, fairly superficial relationships.

KC seems change friends like she changes boyfriends.

Of the three friends who had a fairly long history with KC-- one was positive (JG) and two were immediately suspicious (Kio and Ryan).

My guess was that Kio and Ryan became suspicious fast BECAUSE they knew that KC is cold and untrustworthy from their shared, longer histories. They just knew her batter than did most people.

Oh my gosh; you are so right and I had never even thought of that. Casey, even though she has lived the majority of her life in Orlando, has no long-term friends! She must lack the depth of character (or interest in anyone other than herself) to sustain a real bff. She used everyone up. . .

 

[I Din Doot]

But, not LEGALLY nuts, honey.

She knew what she was doing, that it was illegal, and she tried to cover up.

Legally nuts is a tough sell, even for a REAL attorney. Even Andrea Yates almost didn't get legally nuts, and she's a Snickers bar with a looooong well-documented psych history.

So twisting her arm to save her life might hurt her feelings (OR THEIRS)?

 

[Brini]

So twisting her arm to save her life might hurt her feelings (OR THEIRS)?

Theirs.

She wouldn't do it.

And, she'd need a record of psych history-- medical and/or school. She doesn't have it. Also, she's been seen by two shrinks who found her legally sane.

Sociopaths aren't exactly crazy. They're deficient. They don't have the "feeling" part installed. But, most of them are not violent.

I had a whole caseload of 'em, for a long time.

If you ever meet one, just run like h-ll! Do not pass go. Do not collect $200.

 

[Spangle]

PR,
Maybe I can help a little. When I was in school, we had a classmate who was a pathological lier. We didn't know this at first, of course. But we eventually figured it out. She seemed nice, etc. OR basicly, like all the other girls.

We learned to accept it as part of who she was. We kinda learned to tell when she was possibly.. ah.. mistruthing. tee hee..

But she was still part of the pack. WE had to learn to get along with her. To deal with a person like her in our mist. And NOT always assume she was lying. Yes, I would have called her my friend.. ah..depending on the day of the week.. you know how kids are. But we did share a 'time' in our lives together.

You ask how Kio can claim to be KC's friend, but Kc claims they are no longer friends. Simple. KC moved on. Some folks only call the 'here and now folks' as their 'friends.' such folks have few, if any friends. Kio might have been talking about her 'many' friends. Once a friend, always a friend. Different personality and thoughts. At their age, they are in between. Still bonded to their 'youth' friends, while making 'adult' friends.

I've got a girl about KC's age. I've seen some of this drama go on during the last few years. So It's rather fresh in my mind.

The 4 days thing.. By that time, many of use realized something stunk. It took many of us a while to grasp the concept that she might have done it. That she would have been ballsy enough to lead the cops to her job, etc, etc. Kio, her childhood friend, who learned to be her friend, no matter how KC 'was', most likely was more able to grasp that it was possible that she would lie, that she would steal, etc. She might not wanted to believe that the whole thing went so far as KC actually hurting Caylee.

 

[magic-cat]

I spent some time thinking about what it is that really bothers me about KMTC's LE interview. And I think I finally figured it out.

I want to state up front, I DO NOT think that KMTC is guilty of anything or had anything whatsoever to do with Caylee's disappearance and death.

There are clearly inconsistencies in KMTC's statement that I hope LE checked out completely. But what really bothers me is that this statement was made all of 4 days after Caylee was first reported missing. KMTC tells LE that she and Casey were "best friends" in high school and then says that when she heard that Casey borrowed a shovel, the first thing KMTC thought of was that Caylee was dead and buried somewhere in the woods where they used to hang out. I am having trouble wrapping my mind around the idea that a "best friend", would immediately jump to that conclusion. If I were in KMTC's position and my "best friend" from high school was in Casey's situation, 4 days into the investigation, I would initially want to believe that her child was kidnapped. I would not jump to the conclusion that she was a murderess because she borrowed a shovel and be calling LE and telling them all this stuff about my best friend being a liar, that she never wanted her child, and so on - at least, not a mere four days into the case. Initially, I'd want to help my friend and see if I could get any information from her.

Looking at the statement KMTC made, I think that something really bad must have happened between KMTC and Casey in the past and that the overall tone of the statement reflects bad blood between the two women. The thing is, LE did not seek out KMTC, she sought them out. KMTC had no real reason to get involved in this mess, but she chose to involve herself. I'm trying to understand what motivated her to do that.

Red in your quote is mine for highlighting that to which I am responding.:angel:
Actually Kio says she and Casey were "best friends" in Middle School and that by 9th grade Casey did not have time for her anymore for all intents and purposes.
Purple in your quote is again, mine.:blushing:
Perhaps, and I do not know this to be a fact, but perhaps Kio had heard about the smell of death in the car and the missing baby and Casey borrowing a shovel and it is just a hop a skip and a jump to the conclusion that Casey MUST have done something with Caylee involving that shovel. I would think it if she was my friend or not...actually, I did and do think it so I completely comprehend how Kio arrived there. Stench of rotting corpse and borrowed shovel...Pretty easily connected if you ask me.:innocent:
Blue in your quote is also mine...:waitasec:
Not 4 days-35 days. That is an awful long time for a 2 year old to be unaccounted for and pairing it off with the stench of death in the car, Caseys car? Well, again I can easily see how Kio may have arrived at her conclusion...

I agree that the 31 day aspect is bizarre. I just struggle with the claiming to be "best friends" for all those years and then making that type of accusation so quickly and easily without having a chance to talk to Casey directly first. There must be more to the story between these two women than we know.

They were best friends in middle school. And obviously the friendship meant more to Kio than it did to Casey since Casey tells us through Tracy that she did not even LIKE Kio...so they were never REALLY best friends at all. Casey was just using that kid in all likelihood. Add to this the fact that Kio seems to have gone into some depth with Casey about adopting Caylee and then the deal falls through? Well that might lead to a bit of bad blood don't you agree?

I have a feeling that KC was manipulative enough to make KMTC think she was her best friend. Middle school is a time when KC was probably practicing her "people skills" and learning to manipulate those around her. Having a great deal of experience in secondary education, I can say that the middle school years are the playground for such social development.

Amen to this!:woohoo:I think you pegged that one dead on. She was nothing to Casey but practice.

 

[Leila]

A lot happened between those dates including it became national news that Caylee was missing and that KC had lied and lied and lied not just to everyone that knew her but also to LE that was trying to find Caylee. Also consider that at the time the loan was contemplated, Kio thought KC had a great job as an event planner and could pay her back easily.

I can only imagine what it must have been like for those who knew Casey, whether they knew her long term, or were recent acquaintances. They didn't learn just one lie at a time, and then another lie. They learned all at once that not only was everything Casey told them a lie - the job, the nanny, etc., but that was coupled with the fact that Caylee was missing. Caylee wasn't just missing for a matter of hours..........she had been missing for 31 days! I imagine that all this coming at them at once was a real shock!

For all of them, I'm sure that once they got over the initial shock, they thought of their own interactions with Casey and wondered how much of what she told them was a lie. For those who only knew Casey for a short period of time, like TL and his roommates, or who were only casual acquaintances, they were probably angry with themselves for trusting someone so easily. This was a major wake-up call for these young 20-somethings.

For those who knew Casey longer, like JG, Kio, and Ryan, while it came as a shock, they probably thought about incidents that happened in the past where they caught Casey lying. They knew Casey lied, and took things Casey said with a grain of salt, knowing it might not be the truth. But none of them ever thought Casey would go so far as to lie to LE about her own child's disappearance. I'm sure that once they put some thought to it, and started putting it all together, they realized just what Casey was capable of.

 

[Brini]

I can only imagine what it must have been like for those who knew Casey, whether they knew her long term, or were recent acquaintances. They didn't learn just one lie at a time, and then another lie. They learned all at once that not only was everything Casey told them a lie - the job, the nanny, etc., but that was coupled with the fact that Caylee was missing. Caylee wasn't just missing for a matter of hours..........she had been missing for 31 days! I imagine that all this coming at them at once was a real shock!

For all of them, I'm sure that once they got over the initial shock, they thought of their own interactions with Casey and wondered how much of what she told them was a lie. For those who only knew Casey for a short period of time, like TL and his roommates, or who were only casual acquaintances, they were probably angry with themselves for trusting someone so easily. This was a major wake-up call for these young 20-somethings.

For those who knew Casey longer, like JG, Kio, and Ryan, while it came as a shock, they probably thought about incidents that happened in the past where they caught Casey lying. They knew Casey lied, and took things Casey said with a grain of salt, knowing it might not be the truth. But none of them ever thought Casey would go so far as to lie to LE about her own child's disappearance. I'm sure that once they put some thought to it, and started putting it all together, they realized just what Casey was capable of.

And, Kio.. a woman who WANTS a child, and can't have one... may have thought very hard about what SHE would do, if HER child went missing. That might even hit her harder.

 

[Balthazar]

There ya' go. I think you're answering your own question here. It didn't take long for most to figure out they wanted to back way off from KC. Even Annie who went to stay the night with KC during this time wasn't publically supporting her, iirc.

No, I don't feel that my question is convincingly answered so far. I feel that if KMTC just wanted to back off from Casey she would have remained silent and observed from a distance until it became absolutely obvious that Caylee was dead or until such time as LE asked to speak to her. What I keep thinking is this: Once you accuse someone of murder, there is NO going back. You can count on your friendship being over forever, to say the very least. KMTC was willing to make that accusation about her "best friend" from high school 4 days into the case, before we knew about the chloroform, before we knew about the hair with the deathband and before we knew about the outcome of the odor analysis. I really want to know what the backstory is that made KMTC change her mind so very quickly from being willing to loan Casey $150 on July 9 (at least KMTC claimed she though it was Casey A initially) to thinking she was a murderess on July 19. Hopefully all of this will be cleared up at trial.