Found Deceased Ks - Lucas Hernandez, 5, Wichita, 17 Feb 2018 #32

[Smarty Pants]

What evidence is there that could be used to charge and then convict him? Not just opinion about his decisions, but real evidence?

Besides Lucas's dead body? And the multiple statements made to JH about the bruises & scrapes on Lucas's body...and that Lucas himself said EG was the one hurting him. And if being told about the abuse wasn't enough, there are the many pictures of all the injuries & bruises that riddled his son's body. IMO he can't say he wasn't present when all of those pictures were taken. It may have to be declared fact that EG caused his death in order for any kind of case to proceed but if one can, it should be. He knew something was going on & he didn't report it. He had EG go back & pick him up when JO's family told him they were going to take Lucas to see a doctor.
Call me callous or uncaring but idc if he's "been through enough." If he can be charged, he should be. If he can't, fine.

ALL MOO ALL MOO ALL MOO

jmo

 

[DakotaMayi]

Well, there's always the local, state, and federal courts, but there's also the court of public opinion, which JH was so concerned about, IIRC, IMO.

Guilty!

 

[DakotaMayi]

Seems to have become very resigned and slow here.

I hope people don’t forget Lucas and how so many people tried to help him along the way.

Not forgetting. Just waiting

 

[DakotaMayi]

I had answered that I had not been convinced that she killed herself. I believe she killed herself, definitely but have learned over the years to wait for the final coroner's report to definitely come to a conclusion.

Thanks @lonetraveler for clearing that up

 

[DakotaMayi]

Lucas was out in the elements for 3 months.
Wonder if that will interfer with finding out the COD?.
Time will tell.
If findings are homicide then expect the DA to say Emily would have been charged with Lucas's death if she did not commit suicide.

Yes. We know why she killed herself.

Some might say she did the right thing if cause of death cant be determined.

Thanks @deedee21.

But, she will never hold that title? Officially? I understand now... I think.

 

[AgeofAquaruis]

I agree he will not be held accountable and that makes me so angry. His secrets are now safe because EG is dead.

There's still the case against him regarding EGs son.
Why a dad wanted a judge to keep two sons away from stepmom of missing Lucas
I haven't forgotten about that.

 

[Smarty Pants]

What evidence is there that could be used to charge and then convict him? Not just opinion about his decisions, but real evidence?

jmo

(I misplaced my statement in my previous reply. Apologies. Crime of passion, LOL.)

Besides Lucas's dead body? And the multiple statements made to JH about the bruises & scrapes on Lucas's body...and that Lucas himself said EG was the one hurting him. And if being told about the abuse wasn't enough, there are the many pictures of all the injuries & bruises that riddled his son's body. IMO he can't say he wasn't present when at least one of those pictures was taken. It may have to be declared fact that EG caused his death in order for any kind of case to proceed but if one can, it should be. He knew something was going on & he didn't report it. He had EG go back & pick him up when JO's family told him they were going to take Lucas to see a doctor.
Call me callous or uncaring but idc if he's "been through enough." If he can be charged, he should be. If he can't, fine.

ALL MOO ALL MOO ALL MOO

 

[Busylady]

There was also at least one report made in New Mexico.

Correct that was the 2nd report that DCF received and they discussed with NM their findings on the case and they stated unfounded so Kansas did not follow up on it.

DCF contacted the New Mexico agency, which provided its report, saying it had investigated and determined the allegations were unfounded. The report was not assigned for further review.
Horrific new details emerge in court document about missing 5-year-old Lucas Hernandez

Wish one report would of been enough, but I do understand if they cannot find evidence of abuse they can't remove the child. I have no clue how thorough the claims were investigated.

 

[kkdj]

I had answered that I had not been convinced that she killed herself. I believe she killed herself, definitely but have learned over the years to wait for the final coroner's report to definitely come to a conclusion.

I feel exactly like this.

 

[DakotaMayi]

I feel exactly like this.

Do you feel like you are anticipating anything in particular? Or just waiting to see it actually written out what happened/that she killed herself etc?

 

[Smarty Pants]

I apologize for being argumentative. I don't yet think I've visited the mad-as-hell stage of grief and that's where I appear to have landed today. (What grief I'm allowed to feel as a girl that'd never before met Lucas or those that love him.) Again, apologies.

ALL MOO

 

[WildcatRunner]

Seems like I'm seldom on the same subject as the rest of you, sorry about that. I've just been thinking about EG's death today, and wondering about the place and method used. Is it possible that she chose JH's home and a rifle (possibly his) to try to frame him for her murder in retaliation for not standing by her? Maybe I've just been exposed to too many crime novels and tv shows, but it feels like something she might do. MOO

We have no reason to believe the rifle as his. DM said JH didn't own any guns, and someone had searched the house (maybe DM also) and didn't locate any. So unless he had just purchased it, I don't expect it to be his.

 

[WildcatRunner]

I don’t think we’ll ever know. Everyone who knows what happened are dead IMO.

ETA: is dead? Everyone who knows is dead? Neither of those sound grammatically correct.

FWIW, it should be "is dead." An easy way to tell is take out the extra words...would you say, "everyone are dead" or "everyone is dead?" Then put your additional words back in, but it's easier to tell the word you want when you focus on the words the sentence is about (Dead being about everyone).

 

[WildcatRunner]

Thanks @deedee21.

But, she will never hold that title? Officially? I understand now... I think.

Correct. She will never be convicted in court

 

[AgeofAquaruis]

Correct that was the 2nd report that DCF received and they discussed with NM their findings on the case and they stated unfounded so Kansas did not follow up on it.

DCF contacted the New Mexico agency, which provided its report, saying it had investigated and determined the allegations were unfounded. The report was not assigned for further review.
Horrific new details emerge in court document about missing 5-year-old Lucas Hernandez

Wish one report would of been enough, but I do understand if they cannot find evidence of abuse they can't remove the child. I have no clue how thorough the claims were investigated.

He also cut family out that tried to protect Lucas, cut them out of Lucas' life.
It makes me so angry.

 

[SassynOz]

I don't know what the answer is or how we stop this from happening again, I wish there was some simple fix. Two reports were made to DCF before Lucas went missing, if DCF can not find evidence of abuse they cannot remove a child. We have seen pictures of horrible injuries from Jan incident, the problem is that was not reported until after Lucas went missing. DCF worker can't just take the word of someone reporting abuse and claiming who is abusing the child they have to have some kind of evidence. There is no question something needs to change because too many children end up being left in abusive situations.

This is true plus when you make a call it goes to one call center. They decide there if they are going to send the report on out to whichever county the incident was reported from. Plus I know if they do get sent on the the local office they might sit a couple months before anyone ever gets out to investigate. I wish there was a local number for local offices to call. Because some cases need a urgency behind them.
What can we do though? There was a attorney I believe that spoke after the family had the press conference for baby Tony. I believe she was working or advicing some how she has some sort of relationship regarding the Evan Brewer case.

Her advice was that we can’t just call dcf that’s not working , it is very much broke she said. She did say we needed to watch the children in our life and be advocates for them.
1.
If we see clear abuse then first call the police. Maybe nothing will be done but you will have documentation. Police will take photos. If the LE see what you do they also must make a report , they can in some cases act then and there. Doesn’t usually happen but make a police report.

2.
Take the child to the nearest hospital. Again you have documentation. Even if you don’t believe they will see the child because you don’t think you can legally take them to the doctor. Just don’t overthink it just go. The child will be seen even if the parents are called also , they will have to them answer right then and there. Again you have documentation The hospital also will report it.


Reports made by LE and drs ( take priority ) the cops report every thing regarding children even if your child wondered away and you called them etc. they’ve got to still report It. But they also will report it as a case of no neglect unless they see neglect and they will look the child over for marks bruises etc . Report if the child is cared for fed clothed etc. So in those cases they report it but also report it as non neglect. Kids who you can clearly see abuse on they will get reported as such.
So then you have a least 2 reports made from a 3rd party. If you see abuse again continue to do the same thing . We can’t simply make calls and sit back and wait. Someone has to take action on behalf of all these defenseless kids.

We also have to start paying attention. Really look at the kid next door. You niece , nephew etc. we’ve become a society of minding our own business and to many things go ignored. You also have to consider that if you only bring it up to the parents. That might only cause the child to be more secluded and at even more risk. So you have to really think hard about how to deal with each case.

I already shared what we did when it personally effected us. I know in my heart that had Lucas’s story not been happening at that exact time, we would of still just been on guard and waiting and watching. And praying nothing happened to him. Here we are 4 months later and because of Lucas we acted . We didn’t have to wait for dcf to get involved. We just went with the justice system and thank god they saw what we did. We weren’t even at the point of seeing abuse yet. But once drugs become involved and to many other parties around a child , you have to be deligent to pay attention closer then ever. Every single night when I put this little boy to bed I watch him sleep I cry. I think of where he probably would be now if it wasn’t for one special little boy Lucas. Then I cry because it’s not fair that he had to leave this world so soon. It shouldn’t of took him to make other people think about children close to them. It’s unfortant that it did. But Maybe this is Lucas’s Legacy

 

[cass523]

Steps to Take If CPS Won't Help An Abused Child

STOP CPS FAILURE TO PROTECT - DEMAND AN INVESTIGATION A child's safety is every adult's #1priority!!

1) Contact LEGAL AIDE and find legal representation.

2) Call a Child Abuse Hotline and make a formal report.

3) Call the police or dial 911 directly

4) Contact the CPS office and ask to speak the the SUPERVISOR-Report the worker behind the recommendation.
You probably initially spoke to an intake worker.

5) Contact the child's school and speak directly to his teacher, principal, coach or school counselor. They are mandated reporters and can help to bring attention to the child's abuse.

6) Document, document, document. Take pictures.

7) Take the child to a physician's office, counselor or hospital for evaluation.

8) If all else fails, please contact your state governor's office and speak to the commission's office!!! They will record an "in-take" report and investigate.

NOTE: The laws state that parents are allowed to parent as they see fit provided the child isn't being physically/emotionally/mentally abused nor neglected to the point that it puts the child's life in danger. Physical abuse is the easiest to prove in a court of law. Emotional/Mental Abuse is about impossible to prove with a younger child, especially if there aren't other kids in the home displaying the same behaviors and if the behaviors aren't extreme. Spanking isn't illegal, spanking with an implement is highly frowned upon, but if it isn't causing severe pain, bruising or impairment, it's not (technically) illegal....Just morally and ethically wrong.

Any reasonable belief of abuse or neglect should be reported to the police. If you have been too afraid to voice allegations in the past, let them know. If you have previously reported abuse, communicate the fact that you are trying to protect the child from further harm

A child's parent or guardian has a legal obligation to protect the child. Anyone who permits his or her child to be in a situation where s/he may be harmed may be prosecuted for child abuse. The fact that the abuser is your husband, wife, or other family member does not affect your obligation to report the abuse, nor does it shield you from being involved in legal proceedings resulting from the abuse.

» Search Results » Steps to take if CPS won’t help abused child

 

[Squirrel85]

I think we need to respect the families wishes. The DA will decide what if any info to release to the public, the families will know the cause of death for Lucas and Emily. If the family does not want to pursue it being released to the public than I think that should be honored.

The media might fight the cause of death being closed. The Wetterlings wanted some of their files to be sealed, but the StarTribune and some other media outlet had fought it and won! I was so angry about it. Because the Wetterlings have been through a lot and should have been respected. Nope. The damn, a-hole media, just had to have their story.

 

[Squirrel85]

ALL MOO

The past 20-30 posts, I see lots of discussion regarding what will or won't be released. What I don't see is anyone stating/thinking that JH could/should be implicated in the death of Lucas. Aggravated child neglect, accessory to murder - whatever charge fits his culpability in all this (legally, idk what he *could* be charged with, just using those as an example.) But say he is charged (& I hope he is)...would we have to wait until his trial for the answers we all want? I feel we know the MOD, just not COD. What are everyone's thoughts?

Personally, I have wanted to know the COD but now, I'm not sure. I know his existence (with EG) was Hell on Earth. Learning how bad it actually was - I don't know if I want to know. (<-- I waffle on that but today, I don't want to know.) And as someone said up thread, as long as his family gets the answers they want & deserve, I'm okay with that.

All MOO

I think in #31 we discussed if he should be charged or not. I think he should be charged with knowing LH was being abused, and knowing Emily was the abuser. There is no way in hell, he didn't know Emily was abusing him. Unless he is both blind and dumb. LH was vocal about the crap Emily was doing to him with other relatives. Why would he have been vocal with JH? It wouldn't make sense.

 

[creepcrusher]

I think in #31 we discussed if he should be charged or not. I think he should be charged with knowing LH was being abused, and knowing Emily was the abuser. There is no way in hell, he didn't know Emily was abusing him. Unless he is both blind and dumb. LH was vocal about the crap Emily was doing to him with other relatives. Why would he have been vocal with JH? It wouldn't make sense.

I think deep down he knew but he minimized the abuse, and chose to stay in denial.