MN - George Floyd, 46, died in police custody, Minneapolis, 25 May 2020 #5 - Chauvin Trial Day 2

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Very effective to put these minors on the stand - here’s your unruly mob that stressed Chauvin so much that he couldn’t take his knee off George Floyd’s neck for 9 minutes.
 
DF continued:

One of the bystanders, who identified herself as a Minneapolis firefighter, pleaded repeatedly with officers to check Floyd's pulse, but Chauvin continued to kneel on Floyd's neck, and he and fellow officer Tou Thao wouldn't let onlookers get close, DF said.

"They definitely put their hands on the Mace and we all pulled back," she told the jury.

DF said of Chauvin: "He just stared at us, looked at us. He had like this cold look, heartless. He didn't care. It seemed as if he didn't care what we were saying."

Chauvin attorney Eric Nelson sought to show that Chauvin and his fellow officers found themselves in an increasingly tense and distracting situation, with the growing crowd of onlookers becoming agitated and menacing over Floyd's treatment.

But when Frazier was asked by a prosecutor whether she saw violence anywhere on the scene, she replied: "Yes, from the cops. From Chauvin, and from officer Thao."

When asked to identify the officer, Chauvin stood up in the courtroom and took off his mask, appearing somber as he looked down and away before putting his mask on.

Derek Chauvin trial live coverage: Teen who recorded George Floyd video says he was 'begging for his life'
 
I'm going to post some recent tweets from CNN Legal Analyst, Laura Coates:
@thelauracoates
·
1h


Defense is attempting to argue that eyewitness Williams shouting insults toward the cops after witnessing their actions had an (inexplicable) influence on their actions. #ChauvinTrial #GeorgeFloyd

Laura Coates
@thelauracoates
·
1h


“His nose is bleeding. He can’t breathe. Are you enjoying this? You’re a bum.” -Bystander statements made to officers and heard by #DerekChauvinTrial teenage witness as she saw #DerekChauvin kneeling on #GeorgeFloyd nec

@thelauracoates
·
1h


Teenage eyewitness says she felt threatened by Officers who put their hands on their mace when bystanders attempted to intervene and render aid to #GeorgeFloyd

16m


It’s an odd defense strategy to try to scapegoat the crowd for reacting to what they witnessed, verbally imploring officers to render aid to #GeorgeFloyd . Their words didn’t cause the kneeling, right?
@thelauracoates
·
5m


“When I look at #GeorgeFloyd I see my father, brother, cousins. It could’ve been them. I stay up apologizing to #GeorgeFloyd for not doing more & not saving his life. But it’s not what I should’ve done. It’s what (Chauvin) should’ve done.” Teenage eyewitness #DerekChauvinTrial
 
Weki said:
Very effective to put these minors on the stand - here’s your unruly mob that stressed Chauvin so much that he couldn’t take his knee off George Floyd’s neck for 9 minutes.
Click to expand...

that explains putting the 9 year old cousin on the stand just now.

No cross from defense.

Court breaking for lunch.
 
Niner said:
RSBM
COURTROOM PERSPECTIVE from our pool reporters:
Jurors #4, #5, # 13, #14 all seem engaged, taking a lot of notes throughout both witnesses (especially #5 and #14). Juror #2 continues to be most animated of Jurors, furrowed brow, uncomfortable & shocked, etc. link: https://twitter.com/PaulBlume_FOX9
Click to expand...

This is cut/paste from @Tippy Lynn post on two threads back.... trying to match the jurors to what was just posted. I'm doing guess work as to matching?

No. 2: White man, 20s
He described himself as a chemist and environmental studies scientist who said he typically views life through an analytical lens.

Defense attorney Eric Nelson asked him to expand on some of the answers he gave on his written questionnaire, particularly a question concerning Black Lives Matter.

“I support the message that every life should matter equally,” the juror said. “I don’t believe that the organization Black Lives Matter necessarily stands for that.”

The juror was also asked to expand on answers he gave about disparities in policing and about the criminal justice system. He said he doesn’t necessarily think Minneapolis police are more likely to use force against Black people than they would against others.

However, he said he believes the criminal justice system is biased against racial and ethnic minorities. He said there was a lot of evidence to support that opinion.

No. 9: Multi/mixed race woman, 20s
She describes herself as easygoing, and a mediator among her friends.

In her questionnaire, she said she had somewhat negative impressions of Chauvin, but that she could keep an open mind and be fair. She also said she believes the Black Lives Matter movement, along with Blue Lives Matter, has turned into a disingenuous marketing scheme for corporations.

She has an uncle who’s a police officer in central Minnesota, but said that wouldn't affect her opinion.

When the judge told her she was chosen, she said, "Awesome."

No. 19: White man, 30s
He said he’s in client services and has had to resolve conflicts before.

In his questionnaire, he indicated his view of Chauvin was “somewhat negative” because he didn’t resuscitate Floyd, and that he supports Black Lives Matter in a general context. He also said he has some unfavorable views of Blue Lives Matter.

He said he has a “friend of a friend” who is a Minneapolis K-9 officer but that he hasn’t spoken to him about the case or seen him since the pandemic.

He said he’s seen the bystander video about two or three times, not in full, as part of news articles.

No. 27: Black man, 30s JUROR # 4?
He told the court he came to the United States 14 years ago, speaks multiple languages, works in information technology and is married.

Nelson asked the juror about an answer he provided on the written questionnaire about the death of Floyd. “And you said, ‘It could have been me or anyone else.' Can you explain that a little?” asked Nelson.

“It could have been anybody. It could have been you,” replied the juror. “I also used to live not far from that area (38th Street and Chicago Avenue in south Minneapolis) when I first met my wife. So that is why I said it could have been me. It could have been anybody.”

Asked if he had any particular opinions about the Minneapolis Police Department or law enforcement in general, the man said he did not. The juror also said he felt somewhat supportive of both Black Lives Matter and Blue Lives Matter.

“And you wrote that you believe ‘our cops need to be safe and feel and be safe to protect our community,’” Nelson read from the juror’s questionnaire. “Correct,” said the juror.

No. 44: White woman, 50s JUROR # 5?
The court held part of her questioning without audio while they discussed a sensitive matter with the juror. She later said in her work for a nonprofit advocacy group, she’s had contact with Attorney General Keith Ellison.

When asked if she felt that would jeopardize her ability to be an impartial juror, she said no.

Nelson asked the juror about her answers on the jury questionnaire pertaining to the treatment of people of color by the criminal justice system.

“I do believe there’s bias,” said the woman. “I’ve seen it in my work.”

The woman also said had formed a somewhat negative opinion of Chauvin. But she said she had sympathy and empathy, not only for Floyd, but for the officers involved.

“Everyone’s lives are changed by this incident and what happened. Everyone’s lives,” she said. “And it’s not easy. For anyone.”

No. 52: Black man, 30s
He said he works in the banking industry and is a youth sports coach.

In his questionnaire, he said he was neutral on Chauvin and Floyd. He said he had seen the video and has wondered why the other officers didn’t intervene.

Prosecutor Steve Schleicher questioned one of the juror's statements made during questioning by the defense. The man had said he didn’t think anyone had the intent to cause Floyd’s death.

Schleicher said Chauvin’s intentions will be contested during the trial and asked him if he’d have a problem setting aside his opinion.

“I don’t think it would be that difficult at all,” he said. “I think I can definitely look at it with an objective point of view.”

No. 55: White woman, 50s
She said she works in health care as an executive assistant.

The juror said she couldn’t watch the full video because she found it too disturbing.

She also said in her questionnaire she has a somewhat negative opinion of Chauvin but that he’s innocent until proven otherwise.

She said she has a somewhat unfavorable opinion of Black Lives Matter, acknowledging that she perceives it to possibly mean that other lives don’t matter. She wrote on her questionnaire, “I believe all lives matter,” according to notes from the pool reporter.

No. 79: Black man, 40s
He said he works in management capacity, and that he has not formed an opinion about who is responsible for Floyd’s death.

In his questionnaire, he said he had a neutral opinion of Chauvin and a “somewhat positive” impression of Floyd.

He said he strongly disagreed with defunding police, noting that his house was burglarized once and he had to call the police. The man said he immigrated to the United States.

No. 85: Multi/mixed race woman, 40s
She said she works in organizational management.

In responses to the court, she said was always taught to respect police but added that she wouldn't have trouble second-guessing their decisions if needed.

“Police officers are human,” she said. “They’re not robots that are programmed to all behave in the exact same way. So I feel like as humans, they can make mistakes as well.”

No. 89: White woman, 50s
She said she’s a cardiac care nurse who lives in the suburbs.

She was questioned in depth about her medical training and whether she would second-guess police on resuscitation efforts. She was also asked whether she would reference her nursing experience during deliberations. She said she could avoid it, and would not act as an expert during deliberations.

“I think I can be impartial and listen to instructions and go with what I’m given and ignore the outside stuff,” she said.

No. 91: Black woman, 60s
She said she’s retired from a job in marketing, and that she has a degree in psychology. She volunteers with underserved youth. She grew up in south Minneapolis near where Floyd died.

She said she watched a few minutes of the bystander video of Floyd’s arrest before shutting it off.

She has a relative who is a Minneapolis police officer but they are not close.

She said she believes Blacks and whites do not receive equal treatment, noting that a white U.S. Capitol riot suspect was allowed to go on vacation in Mexico after she was charged.

She said she doesn’t follow the news closely and does not know enough yet to judge the case one way or another.

No. 92: White woman, 40s
She said she works in communications, and has been with the same company for 15 years.

She disagrees with defunding the police but believes change is needed based on what she's seen in media coverage of racism.

She noted somewhat negative views of both Chauvin and Floyd, that she didn’t believe Floyd deserved to die, and that police used excessive force. But she also noted she didn’t think Floyd was innocent either, according to notes from a pool reporter.

She said she understands there are reasons people struggle with addiction.

No. 96: White woman, 50s JUROR # 13?
She described herself as an animal lover who is passionate about advocacy for affordable housing and homelessness. She told the court said she recently resigned from her customer service-related job. The juror noted she feels like she is good at de-escalating conflicts and getting both sides to come together for a resolution.

She said she had seen video clips of the bystander video a few times and is also aware of the $27 million settlement.

In her questionnaire, she wrote that the restraint used on Floyd was “ultimately responsible” for his death, but under questioning she acknowledged that was her assumption based on what she had seen. She acknowledged the video may not show the entirety of what happened.

No. 118: White woman, 20s JUROR # 14?
The juror is a social worker who has relatives who are nurses.

In her line of work, she's had to call the police to remove unruly people. When asked by the prosecution if she's ever seen someone not comply with the police, she said she has not. Schleicher, the prosecutor, wondered if she would blame a person who doesn't comply with police for injuries resulting from a police encounter. She said everyone needs to be treated with respect even if they are suspected of a crime.

She disagrees with defunding police, but under questioning about police reform said that “there are good things and things that should be changed.”

The juror said she’s discussed the case with family members, including one who said they thought Chauvin should not have kept his knee on Floyd's neck for that long.

She said her decision regarding a verdict would not affect her relationship with family and she wouldn't feel the need to justify it. She said she's curious to hear more about police training that may have influenced how the encounter unfolded.

No. 131: White man, 20s
He described himself as an accountant and a sports fan. When asked by Schleicher about his opinion on athletes who “take a knee” during the national anthem, the man said, “I would prefer if someone would express their beliefs in a different manner. But I understand what they are trying to do and raise the dialogue on certain issues.”

The man said that after watching the bystander video from May 25, 2020, he felt like Chauvin’s use of force lasted too long.

He said he generally believes racial minorities are treated unfairly by the criminal justice system.

He strongly disagrees with the notion of defunding the Minneapolis Police Department. “I believe the force is a necessary and integral part of our society,” he said.

The man will be dismissed if none of the other jurors drop out by Monday, when opening statements begin.
 
Weki said:
Very effective to put these minors on the stand - here’s your unruly mob that stressed Chauvin so much that he couldn’t take his knee off George Floyd’s neck for 9 minutes.
Click to expand...
Yeah, they were hardly a threat. I also think it's important to show the jury how traumatic it was for the witnesses to see him suffering and dying at the hands of the police officers, who are supposed to protect and serve.
 
I'm going to stand by what I said yesterday. The defense blew it with Williams. Some suggested they were waiting for cross but the defense basically went out with a whimper. If this is all they had for him they should have been objecting to his testimony yesterday. Williams knocked it out of the park while providing expert testimony when he was a fact witness.

The minors are just driving the nail further into Chauvins coffin. Not that it's going to help but the defense was smart to leave them alone.
 
Weki said:
Very effective to put these minors on the stand - here’s your unruly mob that stressed Chauvin so much that he couldn’t take his knee off George Floyd’s neck for 9 minutes.
Click to expand...

It appears, from opening to now, that the defense is heading in the direction that the MOBBBBBBBBBB!!!!!! was so very UNRULLLLYYYYYY and they had to roll and roll (roll him onto stretcher then roll the ambulance) and THAT contributed to why there was a delay on giving lifesaving effort such as the rollovers of his body, or CPR at the scene prior to loading him in to the ambulance which is well known to do.

PFFFFFFT! I think that the jury is going to be insulted with such defense, I know I am!

Heading upstream with charges I think are proven so far.

Charges.JPG
 
I need to take a break in rl until we come back. There was a poster on the last thread that did the "conditions" in the State for each charge I just did a screen shot of.

Does anyone have time to go and capture and repost such here on this thread during lunch hour?

TIA
 
Tom_Servo said:
I'm going to stand by what I said yesterday. The defense blew it with Williams. Some suggested they were waiting for cross but the defense basically went out with a whimper. If this is all they had for him they should have been objecting to his testimony yesterday. Williams knocked it out of the park while providing expert testimony when he was a fact witness.

The minors are just driving the nail further into Chauvins coffin. Not that it's going to help but the defense was smart to leave them alone.
Click to expand...
Defense missed a golden opportunity with Williams. Nelson needed to direct his cross of Williams to the direction he wants the jury to think. imo
 
Tippy Lynn said:
As it stands right now, everything looks like an open and shut case. That will change as the case progresses through the trial. JMO
Click to expand...

I think this unruly mob angle was a bad move on Nelson’s part but again he’s aiming for 1-2 jurors who will be looking for any excuse to acquit. I think it’s very possible there are stealth jurors who are biased towards defense. I’m basing this after listening to jury selection. There were 2-3 jurors that I just felt were being disingenuous with their political perspectives on all the issues surrounding this case.

I think the only possible legitimate reasonable doubt testimony is the medical testimony. And that will certainly be a battle of the experts.
 
I don't think a single juror would believe that they wouldn't intervene/be angry if they saw what those witnesses saw - a man dying in front of their eyes. It's a poor defense but I think they know that. I reckon the health conditions and toxicology are more likely to play a factor in terms of reasonable doubt.
 
Chelly said:
Defense missed a golden opportunity with Williams. Nelson needed to direct his cross of Williams to the direction he wants the jury to think. imo
Click to expand...

I’m curious - what do you think was missed? I feel like Nelson is being careful not to come off like a jerk which might hurt his client. Or it could just be his style. He’s quite likable and I think that helps him. Given the harsh videos of his client.
 
I think this is going to come down to the medical experts. And there is a nurse on the jury, although she claimed she could put that aside. (I'm doubtful of that.) I'm not real comfortable with this jury, but it could be worse.

This is has been incredibly difficult to watch. I have great empathy for those who watched it happen. No matter what the medical experts say, to me, this was completely preventable and deliberate. There was zero duty of care.

Thank you to all who are transcribing. Very helpful.

ALL MOO
 
Chelly said:
Defense missed a golden opportunity with Williams. Nelson needed to direct his cross of Williams to the direction he wants the jury to think. imo
Click to expand...

MOO, he tried and failed. He wanted to paint a picture of an unruly crowd, and that is why aid was not given.. which makes no sense as that is what the crowd was exclaiming and grew louder about.

They wanted him to be given care!!!! WTH! That is ALL that the crowd was about MOO

If he's trying to infer they were skeeeeeeeeeeeeeered that it might turn into a violent MOBBBBBBBBBBBBBB, he failed. He only reinforced the State that folks were just horrified and exclaiming YOU SOB... help that man!

IANOTD and IANOS, but I would have said more curse words than most at the scene. That the defense stated that he called him such soft words.. I was like SMDH.... pfffft.

No analogies that they might be comparing to RIOTS are jelling here, and doubt on the jury either MOO

And I'm a senior citizen and would have had more foul language that ANY of them on the stand so far reviewing their on camera words.

Be proud of your words and your actions, I say to them.

I just today am realizing that Chauvin perhaps may have been taunting/was taunting just so that this excuse could be used.
 
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Weki said:
I think this unruly mob angle was a bad move on Nelson’s part but again he’s aiming for 1-2 jurors who will be looking for any excuse to acquit. I think it’s very possible there are stealth jurors who are biased towards defense. I’m basing this after listening to jury selection. There were 2-3 jurors that I just felt were being disingenuous with their political perspectives on all the issues surrounding this case.

I think the only possible legitimate reasonable doubt testimony is the medical testimony. And that will certainly be a battle of the experts.
Click to expand...

Thanks for the refreshed on why he appears so foolish... that as was said upthread and we have heard many times... they go after 1 or 2 jurors.

I think they have gone over the line though MOO to give standing for those 1 or 2 in deliberations at.this.time.
 
It has happened many times before, that a killer has been found guilty of first degree murder when the victim was a known drug user and had drugs in their system or had an underlying health issue. So that doesn’t worry me too
Much. The heart problems didn’t kill him that day, the knee in the neck did. If he had a heart attack it was brought on by the stress that being pinned down by his neck to the ground caused. Heck even people without a heart condition would probably end up in cardiac arrest from being slowly suffocated in such an awful way.
 
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