MO - Furious Friends Demand Answers After 3 Men Found Dead at Kansas City Home Days After Watching Football Game, January 2024

[SMK777]

Ok, the article I posted earlier and was commenting on said:

"As of now, police say there is no one in custody and have ruled out foul play."

‘I think the situation is strange’: Family seeks answers after 3 men died in northland backyard

The family of one of the three men found dead almost two weeks ago in the backyard of a home is seeking answers.

www.kctv5.com

That was worded very poorly.
They should have said, and at this time have found no obvious evidence of foul play. Bad journalism!

 

[threesevenninefour]

Earlier in the thread a member posted a news story about a group overdose where numerous members of one family and some of their friends passed away from fentanyl-laced cocaine. Only one family member survived and she talked about how the last thing she remembered was speaking to one of her friends who ended up passing away, until she was awakened by her sister coming into the apartment and understably becoming emotional upon seeing multiple dead bodies. I wonder if something similar could have occurred here— is it possible that the “homeowner” also participated in potential drug use and ended up in a comatose state for a day or two due to an overdose that also killed the others? He may have been so “out of it” that he didn’t even register what he was seeing with the messages from friends/family and the banging on the door.

Even if he was completely coherent, I don’t see anything inherently suspicious about him seeing cars outside and not reporting it. I often host friends and family at my house and if someone decides to indulge in some wine or other alcoholic beverage they will usually leave their car in my driveway and Uber home. Sometimes they don’t come back for a day or two, as they have other vehicles to drive and need to find the time to Uber back or to have their partner drive them over. It’s not weird to me and possibly the same situation is a common occurrence in this friend group. I do find it strange that he would completely ignore messages if he was not in an altered mental state— but, as I stated up thread, I truly don’t believe his behavior was that of a conscious, sober individual.

MOO.

 

[SMK777]

Earlier in the thread a member posted a news story about a group overdose where numerous members of one family and some of their friends passed away from fentanyl-laced cocaine. Only one family member survived and she talked about how the last thing she remembered was speaking to one of her friends who ended up passing away, until she was awakened by her sister coming into the apartment and understably becoming emotional upon seeing multiple dead bodies. I wonder if something similar could have occurred here— is it possible that the “homeowner” also participated in potential drug use and ended up in a comatose state for a day or two due to an overdose that also killed the others? He may have been so “out of it” that he didn’t even register what he was seeing with the messages from friends/family and the banging on the door.

Even if he was completely coherent, I don’t see anything inherently suspicious about him seeing cars outside and not reporting it. I often host friends and family at my house and if someone decides to indulge in some wine or other alcoholic beverage they will usually leave their car in my driveway and Uber home. Sometimes they don’t come back for a day or two, as they have other vehicles to drive and need to find the time to Uber back or to have their partner drive them over. It’s not weird to me and possibly the same situation is a common occurrence in this friend group. I do find it strange that he would completely ignore messages if he was not in an altered mental state— but, as I stated up thread, I truly don’t believe his behavior was that of a conscious, sober individual.

MOO.

Everything you’ve said here is definitely a possible narrative, and I’m sure police interrogation, as much as JW’s attorney will cooperate with, is trying to determine if there were these and other factors involved.

I’m hoping when the medical examiner rules, we will also get a lot more information about the law enforcement end of things.

 

[LoveyG]

Yes, that’s very possible, but it then raises the question as to why they would not have banged on the door or if he wasn’t hearing them and their phones were inside, have asked a neighbor to call.

This is why it seems they may have gone unconscious.

Yes. Also, I have to think if I was trapped outside of a house and was freezing, I would break a window to get in before I let myself die.

 

[SMK777]

Yes. Also, I have to think if I was trapped outside of a house and was freezing, I would break a window to get in before I let myself die.

Agreed; most people would. Especially if the house belonged to your good buddy from decades ago and he’d invited you there.

That’s why some kind of drug intoxication or extreme alcohol poisoning seems likely. If it was one person you might think they had a seizure or cardiac incident or something. But with 3 it’s very similar to those fentanyl stories.

 

[ExitMusic]

Earlier in the thread a member posted a news story about a group overdose where numerous members of one family and some of their friends passed away from fentanyl-laced cocaine.

I will be very surprised if this is not the case with these deaths, unfortunately. It’s sad how drugs are laced these days, making them even more dangerous than they already are.

Unfortunately, I do not foresee us getting answers about the behavior of JW if accidental overdose is the COD, which is frustrating.

 

[SMK777]

I will be very surprised if this is not the case with these deaths, unfortunately. It’s sad how drugs are laced these days, making them even more dangerous than they already are.

Unfortunately, I do not foresee us getting answers about the behavior of JW if accidental overdose is the COD, which is frustrating.

Agreed.

True, but IF that winds up being the case we will then be able to at least be confident that law enforcement ruled out his purchasing or being responsible for the drugs, or his being particularly negligent or reckless in terms of manslaughter/homicide.

It will be an indication, IF it occurs, that this was just a tragic accident involving the 3 deceased, with no one culpable except for the drug dealer, who is often sought, arrested, and prosecuted in these cases.

 

[doublestop]

I just looked back through my instagram stories and it's totally plausible he didn't leave the house for 2.5 days after the game. Sunday was mild but on Monday, the KC metro got freezing rain all morning which quickly turned to heavy snow around noon. Monday to Tuesday we got 10" of wintry precipitation and temperatures dropped to the 20s. By Tuesday morning, there was a heavy layer of snow covering a thick layer of ice.

I think this is significant. If he didn't go out before noon Monday, and the guys parked on the street, the cars might be unidentifiable as to make/model/color because they were covered in snow. He may have seen them but not realized who they belonged to.

 

[branmuffin]

What’s the point? Why should we care about, oh, IDK, 2.5 versus 3 days?
Does 2.5 people equal 3 people? Weird. Kind of different when you look at that way isn’t it. Cheers to you Branmuffin!

In an arena where all sorts of theories, accusations and speculation about the guilt of a suspected individual is bandied about, I like to at least lean into the information that is factual. Weird, I know.

 

[branmuffin]

Didn't answer texts and calls. Could it be, unaware of the deaths in his own backyard, that the host wasn't exactly thrilled with a) the presence of drugs the night before (my speculation), and/or b) the state of his home the day after (more speculation), and purposefully ignored those calls and text in reasonable anger? People can't know what they don't know before they know it.

JMO

"There are things we don't know we don't know" - the mind bending truth of Donald Rumsfeld.

 

[branmuffin]

My point is that he heard people banging on his door and entering his house by breaking a window, but he didn’t respond until LE came to the scene.

In the link to Dan Abrams interview with the friend’s attorney, the attorney says JW was in and out of his house during that time. Hard to explain that he didn’t see their cars.

JMO, JW may not have been responsible for their deaths, but he had a responsibility to contact the police.

If he knew they were dead, most definitely. If he just thought they were AWOL after a bender I don't see how it was his responsibility to explain to friends or family of the three men what had transpired the day/evening of the football game. Men are infamous for avoiding confrontation.

 

[arielilane]

Curious how familiar the three men were with that particular property?

How often their visits were to the property, did they gather to meet at that property to watch every KCC away game to watch the game?

Was there a mix up, and they mistakenly walked out the back door to leave (after the game) thinking it was the front door? Were discombobulated due to something? ... idk

Were they all in the basement? If so, is there a walk out to the basement, which would allow access directly to the basement?

I suspect the autopsy results are done, and definitively, the toxicology reports will give a comprehensive explanation of what actually transpired.

Jmo, as always.

 

[SMK777]

Curious how familiar the three men were with that particular property?

How often their visits were to the property, did they gather to meet at that property to watch every KCC away game to watch the game?

Was there a mix up, and they mistakenly walked out the back door to leave (after the game) thinking it was the front door? Were discombobulated due to something? ... idk

Were they all in the basement? If so, is there a walk out to the basement, which would allow access directly to the basement?

I suspect the autopsy results are done, and definitively, the toxicology reports will give a comprehensive explanation of what actually transpired.

Jmo, as always.

From my understanding, Willis had only lived there for some 6 months.

I agree with you. Once missing information is supplied, the picture will become clearer.

 

[Shamrock1]

JMO, there still isn't a good, rational explanation for:

1. The host not noticing or acting on the dead men's cars still parked at his house after 2 days
2. The failure of the host to respond to family members banging on doors, windows, etc. of his house, but showing up in shorts w/ a wine glass a few minutes later when LE arrived

JMO, he may not have killed them, but he was stonewalling the family. I guess he didn't want to deal with the situation until he was forced to. Rather immature and irresponsible.

I also don't understand why LE is giving him a pass on this. He has some responsibility.

ETA: I will cut LE a little slack since (I assume) the toxicology results are not yet completed. Still...

There is a plausible explanation: perhaps all four men ingested the same substance but the survivor ingested a smaller amount. The “stonewalling” could have been him passed out.

 

[SMK777]

ETA: I will cut LE a little slack since (I assume) the toxicology results are not yet completed. Still...

Snipped for focus:

I really do believe LE meant “thus far” and in the rush to publish the story, reporters were lax with statements. I just don’t see how anything can be ruled out when you don’t even have a cause of death yet.

 

[10ofRods]

Yes. Also, I have to think if I was trapped outside of a house and was freezing, I would break a window to get in before I let myself die.

Exactly. Plus, the fence wasn't that high. Even if one guy couldn't get out, he could assist at least one other in getting out, and that person goes for help of some kind. Was the guy on the back porch banging at it but person inside was asleep/passed out? Would three grown men, familiar with cold weather, wait until they were starting to feel effects of cold and not attempt to get out of the backyard? That reads like an unbelievable novel, when I think about it.

When the girlfriend arrives, she takes off a screen and breaks a window to get in (she's approaching from the front, but is able to get into the basement, and from there, into the rest of the house). Surely there's at least one basement window at the back? No windows at all at the back?

If that's the case, one man kneels and gives a boost to the most athletic other guy to get him over the fence (from where he could have, if he chose, done the same thing as the girlfriend did - or get to a neighbor's house and ask them to call 911 or assist with a ladder in helping anyone still in the backyard.

It's possible, though, that they were drinking and at least two of them passed out. Upon realizing this (and having no aid from his passed out friends), third man tries to bang on back door, but is dangerously close to passing out himself, which he does. Alcohol is not a respecter of human life, in this situation. By that time, the other two men are on the ground and getting hypothermic. Their bodies would have gradually approached internal temperatures at which human survival is unlikely, then impossible.

Internal body temperatures below 68F are profoundly life-threatening. Even at Stage Two hypothermia, shivering ceases and the person is merely drowsy. Combined with alcohol, that can be a deadly scenario.

Hypothermia - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

So if they went outside, shivering at first, but stayed or sat in lawn chairs or something, they'd gradually get colder, but maybe stop realizing it. Drowsy from cold and drowsy from alcohol, both. Not a good combination. And probably not what the family wants to hear, but after reading all the posts on this thread (especially from people who live in the area), it does seem plausible.

IMO.

 

[SMK777]

But it's not instant. You don't walk three steps from the door and drop dead. Under normal conditions, the men would have had time to get out of the back yard and into a warm place. If walking into the cold induced immediate hypothermia half the Canadian population would have died this past week.

Right, but you could certainly all begin rapidly dropping from unknown ingestion of fentanyl. I’m growing increasingly suspicious about that now, more than ever.

And with their training updates and experience, I assume LE is as well.

 

[10ofRods]

<modsnip: quoted post was removed>
For some reason, I'm trying to keep a small file on this case - it is outdoor misadventure, when looked at in one way, and I have a long term interest (and very little on hypothermia, from my real world experience). Cold weather of even 32F is anomalous where I live - although it does happen.

TIA.

 

[ChatteringBirds]

I wonder exactly how he acted/reacted when he was notified they were deceased in his yard.

And if drugs were involved, were there any other victims in the community over that weekend who obtained from the same dealer?

 

[SMK777]

I wonder exactly how he acted/reacted when he was notified they were deceased in his yard.

And if drugs were involved, were there any other victims in the community over that weekend who obtained from the same dealer?

Good questions.