MO - Furious Friends Demand Answers After 3 Men Found Dead at Kansas City Home Days After Watching Football Game, January 2024

[al66pine]

Phones, Voice Mails, Texts, Other eMessages?

Is it possible that Host JW merely had his phone (and any other messaging devices) TURNED OFF? Or that batteries had drained, say on Sun evening or sometime Mon before guests' fam & friends made calls, left messages?
Not saying that happened, but imo it may be w'in the realm of possibilities. Even for how long, ~ 48 hrs?

I recall a MSM reported, a friend said (on FB?) that JW had read the messages, but not sure about reliability of stmt.

 

[AnyNameIWish]

<modsnip: referenced post was removed>

As for JW and his messages, some people just don't give out their cell# to acquaintances, and leave communication with them to FB/insta/discord/etc. One interview definitely made it sound like JW was new to that group of 3, so maybe they met on FB sports fan group or something and otherwise weren't really in touch. As for checking/reading FB/insta messages, those are absolutely low on my priority list since people who really know me know my cell. It's entirely possible he was seeing these messages from friends of the 3 deceased but he didn't understand/know the intensity of their pleas.

 

[10ofRods]

I have mentioned earlier on in the thread that maybe he assumed they had left the cars there as not to drink drive, maybe it was something done in the past

Thank you so much. I do think it's possible the fourth man thought they'd ubered home, as so many people do these days. And whoever posted that theory about the trio mistakenly going out into the backyard, thinking it was the front yard, is probably onto something.

How he manages to ignore the FB messages (if he did), I don't know.

Here are the official MO stats on fentanyl overdose rates and the 3 men are definitely in the demographic most likely to be affected (not that this means there was synthetic opioid use - it's just easy to come up with data for an hypothesis). Alcohol all by itself is still possible.

Drug Overdose Dashboard - Fatal Overdoses | Missouri Department of Health & Senior Services

Opioid

health.mo.gov

We have this recent parallel story of a man dying of cold in New Hampshire, despite lots of experience in the cold (waited too long to call for help):

https://weather.com/storms/winter/video/experience-hiker-dies-in-brutal-winter-weather?cm_ven=hp-slot-1

It stayed about 34F from 6 pm to 10 pm in Kansas City that night (cold enough for people to get hypothermic if they weren't dressed for it and remaining active). It dropped to an overnight low of 32F with a slight rise in temps after 1 am. The next day had a high of 36F. So, to me, hypothermia has got to be factored in. I don't know that much about cold weather gear, but I know that I wouldn't think twice about going outside in 36F without putting on my silk layers or my big warming socks or changing into the boots that accommodate those socks. I would not be planning to stand or sit around in such weather. Going from one warmed space (house) to another (car) would not necessitate all that cold weather clothing, IMO.

Am really appreciating the cold weather experience posts from others.

 

[neesaki]

But it's not instant. You don't walk three steps from the door and drop dead. Under normal conditions, the men would have had time to get out of the back yard and into a warm place. If walking into the cold induced immediate hypothermia half the Canadian population would have died this past week.

And everyone is different. Metabolizes alcohol differently, deals with cold temps differently. As you say, hypothermia is not instant. I could see one being affected first, in which case the other two would realize what’s going on and take him and go inside, or leave, get help, do something.
What’s so bizarre is not one or even two died, but all three. For no one to get help for them or themselves it’s as though whatever happened, happened simultaneously to all of them. Even if drugs, seems it would have affected them each a little differently.

 

[SMK777]

What’s so bizarre is not one or even two died, but all three. For no one to get help for them or themselves it’s as though whatever happened, happened simultaneously to all of them. Even if drugs, seems it would have affected them each a little differently.

Snipped for focus:

I felt this way, too, until I went to the article links on sudden unknown fentanyl ingestion overdoses with rapid unconsciousness and death happening simultaneously to a group of 5 or 6 adults within a short time frame.

For example 5 female employees of a mall store were all found unconscious and near death in their car in the parking lot during a short lunch break.

 

[neesaki]

Snipped for focus:

I felt this way, too, until I went to the article links on sudden unknown fentanyl ingestion overdoses with rapid unconsciousness and death happening simultaneously to a group of 5 or 6 adults within a short time frame.

For example 5 female employees of a mall store were all found unconscious and near death in their car in the parking lot during a short lunch break.

Thanks, that’s an eye opener . It’s absolutely mind boggling isn’t it.
Unfortunately I think that’s what had to have happened here. JMO

 

[SMK777]

Thanks, that’s an eye opener . It’s absolutely mind boggling isn’t it.
Unfortunately I think that’s what had to have happened here. JMO

Most welcome. To be honest, before I read those pieces, I assumed it had to have been some kind of homicide. Like they argued, and he clunked them over the heads and then dragged them outside, and then panicked.

I simply saw no explanation for 3 men in the prime of life suddenly freezing to death in 32-40 degree Fahrenheit weather, just feet away from the house in which they were staying. Apparently, neither did their loved ones.

I knew groups of 3-6 people had been found dead from fentanyl poisoning but I assumed these were hard core addicts who basically stayed in flop houses. I didn’t realize that normal and high functioning people were winding up like this. It was a depressing eye opener.

 

[al66pine]

Missing FB Messages?

....How he
manages to ignore the FB messages (if he did), I don't know....

snipped for focus @10ofRods Sorry for repeating from my post so soon, but----

Maybe host JW had his phone (and any other messaging devices) TURNED OFF, so he was simply unaware of any incoming phone calls, voice mails, texts, other eMessages?
Or that batteries had drained, say on Sun evening or sometime Mon before guests' fam & friends made calls, left messages?

Not saying it happened, but seems possible, esp'ly if he was not feeling well or "under the influence" of what-ev, and he just did not notice?

ETA: LE's review of his phone & other devices may show patterns of device usage as consistent w this ^idea, perhaos frequently, sporadically or never. IDK

 

[ch_13]

We have this recent parallel story of a man dying of cold in New Hampshire, despite lots of experience in the cold (waited too long to call for help):

https://weather.com/storms/winter/video/experience-hiker-dies-in-brutal-winter-weather?cm_ven=hp-slot-1

It stayed about 34F from 6 pm to 10 pm in Kansas City that night (cold enough for people to get hypothermic if they weren't dressed for it and remaining active). It dropped to an overnight low of 32F with a slight rise in temps after 1 am. The next day had a high of 36F. So, to me, hypothermia has got to be factored in. I don't know that much about cold weather gear, but I know that I wouldn't think twice about going outside in 36F without putting on my silk layers or my big warming socks or changing into the boots that accommodate those socks. I would not be planning to stand or sit around in such weather. Going from one warmed space (house) to another (car) would not necessitate all that cold weather clothing, IMO.

Am really appreciating the cold weather experience posts from others.

Snipped.

While it was cold in KC that evening, the slightly above freezing temps in a suburban neighborhood were a world away from the relentless mountain environment where the hiker was lost:
An experienced hiker...died in New Hampshire’s White Mountains during a solo hike in brutal conditions, including single-digit temperatures, harsh winds and waist-deep snow.

"He just got caught in some freak weather...The winds really picked up. They were up to 80 miles an hour at one point."
(emphasis added)

Conditions were so bad that search and rescue teams had to turn back several times, National Guard helicopters couldn't locate him and it would take 19 hours after his distress call for his body to be located even though they had a pretty good idea of his location.

An experienced hiker dies in a solo trek in blinding, waist-deep snow in New Hampshire mountains

Experienced hiker who had accomplished the “Triple Crown” of challenging cross-country hikes has died in New Hampshire’s White Mountains while hiking alone in brutal conditions.

apnews.com

 

[BaffleMe]

I live in a small/safe/community minded town and many of my friends in the 38-48 year range, most who are happily married parents and successful use recreational drugs(beyond cannabis which is legal here).

I think in part because use was often regular and early in teen years many still consider themselves “safe” despite the drugs themselves being massively different than the 90s/00’s.

There is a plausible explanation: perhaps all four men ingested the same substance but the survivor ingested a smaller amount. The “stonewalling” could have been him passed out.

Except someone read his messages

 

[10ofRods]

I have mentioned earlier on in the thread that maybe he assumed they had left the cars there as not to drink drive, maybe it was something done in the past

Thank you so much. I do think it's possible the fourth man thought they'd ubered home, as so many people do these days. And whoever posted that theory about the trio mistakenly going out into the backyard, thinking it was the front yard, is probably onto something.

How he manages to ignore the FB messages (if he did), I don't know.

Here are the official MO stats on fentanyl overdose rates and the 3 men are definitely in the demographic most likely to be affected (not that this means there was synthetic opioid use - it's just easy to come up with data for an hypothesis). Alcohol all by itself is still possible.

Drug Overdose Dashboard - Fatal Overdoses | Missouri Department of Health & Senior Services

Opioid

health.mo.gov

It's so very hard to explain without some sort of impairment. We don't know the time at which the trio went into the back yard, but it sounds like it was after the game was over at roughly 6:30 pm Sunday. Temps were in the low 30's, IIRC (Source National Weather Service data via Wunderground.com). If all four were near passing out from alcohol, then perhaps the man inside did not hear them banging on the back door.

How long would three men stand out in the increasing cold, banging on a locked door, before trying another means of self-rescue?

 

[10ofRods]

I have mentioned earlier on in the thread that maybe he assumed they had left the cars there as not to drink drive, maybe it was something done in the past

Thank you so much. I do think it's possible the fourth man thought they'd ubered home, as so many people do these days. And whoever posted that theory about the trio mistakenly going out into the backyard, thinking it was the front yard, is probably onto something.

How he manages to ignore the FB messages (if he did), I don't know. If he thought they all ubered away from his house, leaving their vehicle(s) behind, wouldn't it be the right thing to let the distraught family know that?

Each time I go over this in my mind, I still puzzle over the fourth man's behaviors, which could of course be benign. Just puzzling.

 

[MyBelle]

Snipped.

While it was cold in KC that evening, the slightly above freezing temps in a suburban neighborhood were a world away from the relentless mountain environment where the hiker was lost:
An experienced hiker...died in New Hampshire’s White Mountains during a solo hike in brutal conditions, including single-digit temperatures, harsh winds and waist-deep snow.

"He just got caught in some freak weather...The winds really picked up. They were up to 80 miles an hour at one point."
(emphasis added)

Conditions were so bad that search and rescue teams had to turn back several times, National Guard helicopters couldn't locate him and it would take 19 hours after his distress call for his body to be located even though they had a pretty good idea of his location.

An experienced hiker dies in a solo trek in blinding, waist-deep snow in New Hampshire mountains

Experienced hiker who had accomplished the “Triple Crown” of challenging cross-country hikes has died in New Hampshire’s White Mountains while hiking alone in brutal conditions.

apnews.com

BBM. The temp in Kansas City that evening was below freezing. One also must factor in the wind chill plus whatever substance they may have ingested--whether it be alcohol or drugs--AND the fact that they were also trudging through ice cold snow. We have no idea how they were dressed. Hats? Heavy coats? Boots? Gloves? Did they Uber there? Drive their own cars?

JMO

https://www.kansascity.com/sports/spt-columns-blogs/for-petes-sake/article283966048.html

 

[ChatteringBirds]

And whoever posted that theory about the trio mistakenly going out into the backyard, thinking it was the front yard, is probably onto something.

All three being so confused they all tried to leave out back, though? I personally can't see that. They would have all come in through the front door. They shouldn't have all confused the doors. JMO.

I think there has to be another reason they went out back, besides leaving to head home.

So let's ask ourselves, if the host was upstairs for the night, why would they go out back together, rather than out front? Even for a smoke, why go out back, if the party was over?

Oh well, I guess if we knew the host's story it might make more sense.

 

[SMK777]

All three being so confused they all tried to leave out back, though? I personally can't see that. They would have all come in through the front door. They shouldn't have all confused the doors. JMO.

I think there has to be another reason they went out back, besides leaving to head home.

So let's ask ourselves, if the host was upstairs for the night, why would they go out back together, rather than out front? Even for a smoke, why go out back, if the party was over?

Oh well, I guess if we knew the host's story it might make more sense.

To my thinking, any kind of smoking or drugs would have you go in the back for privacy?

 

[doublestop]

Is there a source somewhere that says the back yard fence has no gate to the rest of the world? I've never seen a fenced yard without a gate.

 

[doublestop]

Answering my own question, looking at google map images there does appear to be a double gate (large enough to drive a car through) on the righthand side of the house. No latch is visible on the outside of the gate, so it would appear the latch may be on the inside. Unless it was padlocked they should have easily been able to leave via the gate.

 

[SMK777]

Answering my own question, looking at google map images there does appear to be a double gate (large enough to drive a car through) on the righthand side of the house. No latch is visible on the outside of the gate, so it would appear the latch may be on the inside. Unless it was padlocked they should have easily been able to leave via the gate.

That’s why the situation seems to indicate going out back for some privacy to smoke, or do substances, and sudden, rapid loss of consciousness [as in what occurs with fentanyl poisoning] ——that the friend inside and possibly already in bed was totally unaware was taking place.

 

[branmuffin]

Thank you so much. I do think it's possible the fourth man thought they'd ubered home, as so many people do these days. And whoever posted that theory about the trio mistakenly going out into the backyard, thinking it was the front yard, is probably onto something.

How he manages to ignore the FB messages (if he did), I don't know.

Here are the official MO stats on fentanyl overdose rates and the 3 men are definitely in the demographic most likely to be affected (not that this means there was synthetic opioid use - it's just easy to come up with data for an hypothesis). Alcohol all by itself is still possible.

Drug Overdose Dashboard - Fatal Overdoses | Missouri Department of Health & Senior Services

Opioid

health.mo.gov

We have this recent parallel story of a man dying of cold in New Hampshire, despite lots of experience in the cold (waited too long to call for help):

https://weather.com/storms/winter/video/experience-hiker-dies-in-brutal-winter-weather?cm_ven=hp-slot-1

It stayed about 34F from 6 pm to 10 pm in Kansas City that night (cold enough for people to get hypothermic if they weren't dressed for it and remaining active). It dropped to an overnight low of 32F with a slight rise in temps after 1 am. The next day had a high of 36F. So, to me, hypothermia has got to be factored in. I don't know that much about cold weather gear, but I know that I wouldn't think twice about going outside in 36F without putting on my silk layers or my big warming socks or changing into the boots that accommodate those socks. I would not be planning to stand or sit around in such weather. Going from one warmed space (house) to another (car) would not necessitate all that cold weather clothing, IMO.

Am really appreciating the cold weather experience posts from others.

Those are really sobering statistics regarding the #1 cause of death in Missouri for those between the ages of 18 to 44. How many of those who died initially started taking doctor-prescribed opioids that descended into using street drugs.

 

[happyday]

None of this makes any sense to me. No way those three guys got “stuck” in the back yard. The fence looks like just a standard height privacy fence with the horizontal slats on the inside, essentially making a ladder out of there. I’ve climbed over the same many times.
Bad drugs makes a lot of sense, but the fourth friend’s actions make very little sense. If he had been passed out from the same drugs the other guys ended up dying from, then yeah maybe I can understand ignoring ALL those messages and calls and door banging from friends and family and just somehow not noticing the three dead friends in the back and their car(s) still there from game day. But if those messages really were read and also his attorney said he was in and out of the house during that time, sooooooo what the heck? Something still isn’t jiving for me. At all.