MO - Lisa Irwin, 10 months, Kansas City, 4 Oct 2011 - #12

[passionflower]

Why and who would want to kidnap a 10 month baby girl in the middle of the night?

Do we have proof that baby Lisa was sick?
Or just the word of parents?

Was she cutting teeth? cranky?
How much sleep did dad get that day?

The birthday party was 2 days before IIRC.
Anything odd at the party?

 

[shefner]

What I recall is Debbie saying she wasn't mad that LE had said they were uncooperative the night before.

I'd be mad as heck if LE kept examining me and I knew I was innocent.

But then again, the Ramseys (JonBenet's parents) acted angry and I didn't like it. I thought they acted arrogant.

So it might be a "no win" situation.

 

[marge_rita]

There is something else that I was thinking of that makes the intruder perp story less plausible to me. DB says she closes all the door, even the bedroom doors, at night. So the perp comes in, and selects the right door to kidnap Lisa. He/she doesn't accidentally open the wrong doors, or if he/she does it wakes no one?

Good catch Tuffy!

 

[BeanE]

Thanks! I had not seen that quote until just now.

Those are reporter tweets. Because they have to type fast, I wouldn't take them as exact quotes.

 

[katydid23]

I would like to know if Dad volunteered for the late shift or if it was assigned to him at random. My suspicion is that something happened to Lisa sometime after the party that they attended and that Dad might have traded shifts or volunteered for the night shift to facilitate a staged kidnapping. I suspect that Lisa was removed from the home before Dad went to work. Mom may had had the lights on late into the night while she cleaned house and got rid of any soiled sheets or clothing.

I think they ditched the cell phones thinking that it might keep LE from being able to track where they went to dispose of the body earlier in the day. Even if just one of the phones had calls or pings which could cast suspicion, they decided to ditch them all so there would not be a question of why the "kidnapper " would take one phone and not the others.

That's just my latest version. I'm sure it will change. MOO


I think the only thing burned in the dumpster was clothing or sheets or cleaning rags. Cell phones would stil be identifiable even if burned, and if they had tried to burn a body the fire wouldn't have completely consumed it and it would smell like a burned body.

All of that sounds plausible except for the older boys. How would they keep all of that secret from them?

 

[passionflower]

When I was a young adult a neighbor teen who was mentally ill preyed on the area for years. He meandered all over at night and would spend many hours in houses with the occupants there sleeping. Eating, drinking their liquor, going through all the drawers. He would take their cigs, lighters, wallets and anything else right off their nightstands. Most people never woke and caught him. IIRC there were only a couple of times he was caught and arrested. there were many nights this kid went on a mini crime spree in a single night. Breaking into houses, cars, lighting things on fire, letting dogs out of their yards and houses.

like tommy coslin's? Haleigh's uncle...........

 

[passionflower]

News time ! Live link?

 

[SuziQ]

Now that's scary!

It was super creepy. It's a good thing he wasn't dangerous in the classic sense other than the little fires on the front lawns. My friend woke up to him kneeling by her bed and his face inches from hers. She went balistic screaming hysterically and he ran. He had a ski mask on so he couldn't be ID'd for an arrest, but everyone knew it was this kid. That same night he slashed my tires.

 

[Just K]

Several cat ailments have an incubation period in which you'd notice nothing abnormal for several days to a couple weeks. There's ringworm to consider, tape worms, fleas, scabies an other parasites. I'm not your typical cat lover either. I used to run a rescue that specialized in cats. I absolutely adore them and it's nothing for me to cart home a dumpster kitty occasionally, even now. Under NO circumstances would I put a newly acquired cat/kitten near my child..especially in close proximity to another child who's sick and is obviously going to potentially have an already compromised immune system. You can vaccinate what you have...but what you bring in may have something you can't see.
Of course, consider that I'm wrapped entirely too tight over the sick cat thing after some of what I've witnessed in the years I spent in rescue work. The average person just doesn't know what could happen. Worst case, you could unknowingly bring in a cat who looks perfectly healthy, but in reality carries the rabies virus. Pretty scary, huh?

Then there is Feline Aids, Feline Leukemia, and Feline Herpes...none can be seen and if you have other cats you can unknowingly infect your whole feline family.

 

[EllaMae]

If a parent accidentally overdosed their child on a medication that made the child sleepy, the child would just go to sleep and might never wake up. The parents would not know that they had OD the child until they found the child dead. There would not be an ER visit or poison control call. This is the precise danger of giving adult cough syrups that contain dextromethorphan to children.

But that would still not be a good reason to stage a fake kidnapping. It would still be an accidental death.

And cadaver dogs would surely hit on the crib.....

 

[RANCH]

Post #61 above gives the interview in context and the link. She was referring to LE.

Thanks mck16. That clears it up for me. Debbies not mad at LE, their just doing their job so to speak. Here's a link to that post.

[ame="http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showpost.php?p=7209911&postcount=61"]Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community - View Single Post - MO AMBER ALERT: Lisa Irwin, 10 months, Kansas City, 4 Oct 2011 #12[/ame]

 

[neesaki]

(thank you BeanE for gathering these)
[FONT=&quot]#LisaIrwin's mom:We want to thank everybody who has helped us so far.
1 minute ago

#LisaIrwin's mom: we are not angry, we just want our daughter home, that's all we care about.
2 minutes ago


----------------------

[/FONT]

I see no problem w/ DB's statements in this interview. Dr. Glass certainly has some credentials, but she also likes the limelight and the drama, so you have to take what she says with this in mind, IMO.

 

[BeanE]

I'd be mad as heck if LE kept examining me and I knew I was innocent.

But then again, the Ramseys (JonBenet's parents) acted angry and I didn't like it. I thought they acted arrogant.

So it might be a "no win" situation.

I'd be devastated and very angry if LE was saying "You killed her" about my baby, and I knew I hadn't, and I knew she was kidnapped, and they were accusing me instead of going out and rescuing her from her kidnapper.

 

[grandmaj]

I'd be mad as heck if LE kept examining me and I knew I was innocent.

But then again, the Ramseys (JonBenet's parents) acted angry and I didn't like it. I thought they acted arrogant.

So it might be a "no win" situation.

I'd be angry too. But I would sit there and stomp my feet, cry, insist on my innocence and answer the same questions hundreds of times in order to get them to believe me so that my baby would be found.

This is the part that is nagging at me. They took a 2 day break. Well WTH was happening with their baby while they took a 2 days break? Or do they know already. I'm not sure what I believe happened. I guess I'm still on the fence. But walking out on LE.

Who are other parents who have done this rather than dig in and answer questions?.

Croslin/Cummings
Billie Dunn

Who else?

 

[AlexLouise44]

I thought about little Lisa last night when I had to get my 20 month old up to change his stinky diaper at 1am. I turned the hallway light on but it was still very dark in our room (he still sleeps in a crib in our room due to space issues!). While I was changing him and he was still half asleep I thought about Lisa. It is entirely possible that she may have been half-asleep and not making much noise. Even when the cold wipes going on his little behind (poor little guy) he didn't so much as squeak. I don't know what my take on the truth behind what really happened to beautiful little Lisa, all I know is that when I watch my 20 month old son sleep, I can't understand how anyone in this entire world could want to harm such a defensive wonderful little human being.

Hoping Lisa comes home VERY soon. Now if possible!!!

 

[passionflower]

But that would still not be a good reason to stage a fake kidnapping. It would still be an accidental death.

And cadaver dogs would surely hit on the crib.....

were dogs brought into house?

 

[wfgodot]

It was super creepy. It's a good thing he wasn't dangerous in the classic sense other than the little fires on the front lawns. My friend woke up to him kneeling by her bed and his face inches from hers. She went balistic screaming hysterically and he ran. He had a ski mask on so he couldn't be ID'd for an arrest, but everyone knew it was this kid. That same night he slashed my tires.

My hometown had and has a state hospital and training center for the mentally challenged, moderate to severe; its grounds are open and right in the middle of a northside neighborhood. Similar stuff happened - a patient in your kitchen eating your cornflakes maybe, or trying on your robe after getting it off the hook behind the bathroom door, that sort of thing. Not as creepy/eerie as your situation though! And only in the daytime.

 

[SarahW]

Did anyone listen to Dr. Lillian Glass on WS radio? I liked her analysis of the whole thing. Especially the part where she talked about DB saying that they were not mad. She said, "I would be mad if anyone stole anything of mine, not to mention my child" i thought she made a good point. I have been listening to her for years, and to me she always is spot on.

She's taking that out of context though. DB is talking about the rough treatment by the PD, acknowledging they are doing their job. DB isn't all copacetic with having her baby stolen.

Even on that point (though it had nothing to do with what she was or wasn't mad about), I think alternating grief and worry and guilt and terror and attempts to tamp it down with hope and trying to hold it together to help find her baby are probably taking precedence over the luxury of impotent rage at the perpetrator

 

[neesaki]

I never understood when that was said that she was talking about the kidnapper but rather LE.

She was talking about LE, not the kidnapper.

 

[BeanE]

Video of tonight's vigil:

EricKCTV5 Eric Chaloux
twitvid.com/XABM4 - Vigil for #LisaIrwin---outside family's house.
1 hour ago