NH NH - Allenstown, Adult Female & 3 Children, found Nov'85 & May'00 #2

[msphilosopher]

I have always felt that Denise met TR through where she worked with TR being a customer that came into GC to acquire electrical cabling and supplies for the mill he worked at.
***************
TR Thread # 2, Post # 681
Manchester, New Hampshire; Denise Beaudin Employment Demers Nursing Home (Opened 6/78 & Closed (10/83) and Carol Cable was acquired by General Cable in 1992. Denise was a graduate of Goffstown HS class of 1976. Noted Denise moved around prior to ultimately settling in Manchester

Seems like a strong connection... surprised they have discuss this connection more in MSM in hopes of reaching co workers or people who worked there as well.... unless of course they already know how they met and were connected.

How TR met Denise could shed light on how A4 adult victim met TR.

I wonder if they checked out any shoe shops in Manchester from 1979-1981.

Where do you guys stand on the "Elizabeth"? Fictitious? A4 adult? Someone else entirely?

Could they enter the A4 victims DNA into ancestry sites?

 

[folieadeuxnola]

Their are a few other companies other than DDP that are willing to take on children's cases i.e. Finders. If LE is up to going through the process in which they have gone this far I see no reason as to why not... It's like cheering on "Rudy" don't give up now were almost to the goal post. The only thing that comes to mind is the possibility that the DNA is not enough good quality to extract what is needed to convert it in to the DNA material that is need to upload into GedMatch.

 

[Al Ka]

Forensic genealogist was the one who did find out Terry Peder Rasmussen real identity with cooperation of NH police. Logical conclusion is that they definitely tried already the same for A4 but it did not work out yet due to not sufficient or other problems with their DNA.

 

[folieadeuxnola]

Forensic genealogist was the one who did find out Terry Peder Rasmussen real identity with cooperation of NH police. Logical conclusion is that they definitely tried already the same for A4 but it did not work out yet due to not sufficient or other problems with their DNA.

Agreed, this the conclusion I have come to that the ability to utilize the forensic genealogist path is lingering with the quality and the amount able to be extracted of the A4's DNA. It has been stated before that the women's DNA had deteriorated tremendously a few years back. Is it impossible for now "Maybe" but will it be forever "No" development is progressing every day ... every couple of months we hear of a new method. As we have seen with posts from DDP where Doe extractions have failed ... They do have their thinking caps on to figure out a way. Where there is a "Will" there is a "Way"

 

[carbuff]

All these options are being investigated. They are looking for and talking to the people they should be looking for, most of whom have been asked not to speak about what they were asked.

 

[leilarose68]

Genealogist Barbara Rae-Venter who is working on this case commented on CeCe Moore's facebook page with a response about the Bear Brook Murders, since someone asked CeCe about it:

"I am working on the Bear Brook cases. Because there was a long delay in recovering the bodies (about 5 years for the adult female and eldest child and 20 years for the remaining two children) the initial DNA samples that we obtained were heavily contaminated (only around 2% human DNA). A new technique for recovering autosomal DNA from the hair shaft has been used successfully and sequencing is in progress on the hair extractions. The DNA is the hair shaft is very small fragments and therefore whole genome sequencing is being used."

 

[Alleykins]

Genealogist Barbara Rae-Venter who is working on this case commented on CeCe Moore's facebook page with a response about the Bear Brook Murders, since someone asked CeCe about it:

"I am working on the Bear Brook cases. Because there was a long delay in recovering the bodies (about 5 years for the adult female and eldest child and 20 years for the remaining two children) the initial DNA samples that we obtained were heavily contaminated (only around 2% human DNA). A new technique for recovering autosomal DNA from the hair shaft has been used successfully and sequencing is in progress on the hair extractions. The DNA is the hair shaft is very small fragments and therefore whole genome sequencing is being used."

She mentioned this new technique in the podcasts, where they can extract DNA now from a hair strand without a follicle. This opens up a lot of possibilities!

 

[Al Ka]

Genealogist Barbara Rae-Venter who is working on this case commented on CeCe Moore's facebook page with a response about the Bear Brook Murders, since someone asked CeCe about it:

"I am working on the Bear Brook cases. Because there was a long delay in recovering the bodies (about 5 years for the adult female and eldest child and 20 years for the remaining two children) the initial DNA samples that we obtained were heavily contaminated (only around 2% human DNA). A new technique for recovering autosomal DNA from the hair shaft has been used successfully and sequencing is in progress on the hair extractions. The DNA is the hair shaft is very small fragments and therefore whole genome sequencing is being used."

WOW, that is one of the best news ever! Thank You Leilarose. Wow, there is hope they might be coming home soon...

 

[taramarie]

Genealogist Barbara Rae-Venter who is working on this case commented on CeCe Moore's facebook page with a response about the Bear Brook Murders, since someone asked CeCe about it:

"I am working on the Bear Brook cases. Because there was a long delay in recovering the bodies (about 5 years for the adult female and eldest child and 20 years for the remaining two children) the initial DNA samples that we obtained were heavily contaminated (only around 2% human DNA). A new technique for recovering autosomal DNA from the hair shaft has been used successfully and sequencing is in progress on the hair extractions. The DNA is the hair shaft is very small fragments and therefore whole genome sequencing is being used."

Wow, this is amazing news!

 

[Triss]

Exciting!

 

[Richard]

Murder of Woman and Three Young Children Haunt Town

It is perhaps the most haunting and bizarre crime to hit the state of New Hampshire.

In 1985 the unidentified remains of an adult female and a young female child were found in a barrel in the Bear Brook State Park of Allenstown.

Fifteen years later when police revisited the scene, several hundred yards away another barrel was found containing the unidentified remains of two other young children. The adult female and the child buried in the barrel with her died from blunt trauma to the head. The two younger children found were probably also murdered and though there is not definitive evidence, they are believed to be female.

DNA tests proved that the adult female is related to the child found buried with her as well as of one of the other children found in 2000. However, she is not the mother of all three children.

The adult female was believed to have been between the ages of 23 and 32. She was between the 5’2 and 5’7. She was caucasian with possible Native American ancestry. She had light curly brown hair. The two children linked to her were around the ages of 5-10 and 1-3 years old. The other is not related to her and is believed to be around 3 to 4 of age.

It is possible that the three children could be paternally related though but it is not proven. Isotope testing shows that all four victims were born in the United States, they believe that the woman and her two children spent substantial time near the Atlantic Coastline anywhere from Maine to Pennsylvania but that is not definitive. The Other child may have spent time as far west as Minnesota. Whoever killed these individuals has not been caught.

8-24-2017: At long last a break in the case as one of the dead children (unrelated to the other three victims) has been identified as the daughter of a deceased killer named Terry Peder Rasmussen also known by the alias of Bob Evans who is a likely serial killer.

Rasmussen is the person believed responsible for the four murders, that of his California girlfriend and possibly several others in New Hampshire and California. Police believe he has left a trail of dead bodies in several states. He died in prison in California in 2010 for the murder of a wife, Eunsoon Jun.

He is the prime suspect in the 1981 disappearance of Denise Beaudin who at the time lived in Goffstown. Police know Rasmussen used various aliases around the country.

LINK:

New Hampshire Cases

 

[Alleykins]

Just have to say I'm impressed with how far this case has come in the few short years since I joined WS.

 

[LadyTudorRose]

I was somewhat familiar with this case before, but learned a lot more from the NPR podcast about it that was recently put out. I am optimistic we will know the identities of the victims, or at least the older victim and the two children related to her, relatively soon.

I am worried the name of the other little girl may take a bit longer because we already know half of her ancestry and that didn't lead to her identity and there's also a chance that her birth and existence may have been poorly documented given who she was living with.

The podcast did put into perspective, through exploring the case of Eunsoon Jun, how Rasmussen could isolate a victim from their family, and through the Denise Beaudin case, how a woman and child might not get reported missing when they disappear.

I actually think there may be many more victims from Rasmussen and we will probably never know how many in total. He probably chose to leave Lisa behind rather than kill her because the neighbors had become so attached to her there was a chance they would alert the authorities if she disappeared. So I think all of the victims he did kill were people he felt confident wouldn't be reported missing, or at least not right away. He isolated Eunsoon (and probably Denise) from her family, and the person who reported her missing ended up being a friend rather than a relative. He miscalculated in that case considering she was reported missing before he'd left town or moved her body, but perhaps only because he'd successfully committed so many murders before without getting caught that he'd gotten sloppy.

I suspect the mother of the middle child will turn out to have been a young woman who had few relatives or became estranged from her family over the relationship with Rasmussen. Her family probably never knew she had a child. She was either never reported missing, or reported many months after she was last seen, and if her family knew only about her and not her little girl being missing as well, even if they were looking for her they might never make a connection with this case. When it comes to the other mother and children, given the age of the older child it's harder for me to see their disappearance attracting so little attention, especially considering the isotope evidence suggests they were from New England. One possibility that occurred to me is what if she were fleeing another abuser. Maybe the father of her children was abusive so she abruptly left town with the kids, and perhaps started going by an alias. The abusive husband might not have wanted to report her or her daughters missing given, if she was found, she might get him into trouble with the police, and he might've discouraged other friends/relatives from doing so for the same reason. And then if she'd told someone that she was planning to take the kids and run, that would also provide reassurances that she was safe in hiding, and discourage anyone worried about them from reporting them missing. If we assume the children's father and his family might've been from a nearby area, but maybe the mother wasn't, that also creates the possibility that there may have been relatives nearby who knew the mother and daughters were missing, knew about the bodies that were found, suspected there was a connection, but decided not to come forward because they suspected their son/brother was the killer.

There's also the added confusion, for someone who is only vaguely aware of the case, that your missing friend/relative was a woman with two daughters. Initially, they found a mother and one daughter, and then fifteen years later they found two additional little girls. So someone who isn't aware of the more recent developments may still think the case involves a missing mother with three daughters, which wouldn't fit the family they knew that left town and was never heard from again.

 

[Alleykins]

I'm thinking that's possibly what may be going on - that if a family member is looking for for them, they're not recognizing the dynamic of the group and passing it by. They could be looking for a woman and 2 children, a woman and and older child, but not the youngest because they didn't know about her. The mother/family of the MC may not recognize the other three, and not realize it's her. Then it's possible the mother was already deceased when the others were killed, and by the time the second barrel was found, maybe the rest of her family passed away. There's so many different scenarios and reasons as to why these four have remained unidentified.

 

[Al Ka]

Body found in Tennessee in 1985 identified as 17-year-old Elizabeth Lamotte from Manchester, NH

The remains of a homicide victim found in Tennessee 33 years ago have been identified as a missing teenager from New Hampshire, and police investigated a possible connection to suspected serial killer Terry Peder Rasmussen, also known as Bob Evans.

According to the New Hampshire Attorney General’s Office, 17-year-old Elizabeth “Liz” Lamotte went missing on Nov. 22, 1984, when she left the Youth Development Center on a furlough to Gill Stadium and never returned.

Her case was discharged from YDC on July 27, 1985, on what would have been her 18th birthday, even though she had still not returned to the facility.

The partially decomposed body of a young female was found on April 14, 1985, along Interstate 81 in Greene County, Tennessee, officials said.

"That would have been about six months after (Lamotte) was last seen in Manchester, New Hampshire, so I'm sure the family has had questions all these years about what they could've done, what could be done to help find her, and now they know it wasn't long after she went missing that she was killed," Senior Assistant Attorney General Susan Morrell said.

Investigators said the death was ruled a homicide and that an autopsy revealed that she died of blunt force trauma to the head about two to three weeks before her body was discovered.

Tennessee officials were unable to determine the identity of the victim, and she was listed as a Jane Doe.

Investigators submitted a sample of the victim's remains to the University of North Texas Center for Human Identification in 2006, allowing the center to develop a DNA profile for the victim, which was entered into the Combined DNA Index System.

On Tuesday, investigators confirmed that Lamotte was a match to the homicide victim’s DNA profile

Lamotte was not reported as missing to Manchester police until 2017, after a January 2017 press conference held by the Attorney General's Office, the New Hampshire State Police Cold Case Unit and the Manchester Police Department regarding the Allenstown unidentified persons cases.

(more at link)
Remains of teen missing from Manchester since 1984 identified because of Bob Evans case

Elizabeth Lamotte case here on WS - NH - NH - Elizabeth Lamotte, 16, Manchester, 6 April 1984

 

[FireOwl9]

Body found in Tennessee in 1985 identified as 17-year-old Elizabeth Lamotte from Manchester, NH

The remains of a homicide victim found in Tennessee 33 years ago have been identified as a missing teenager from New Hampshire, and police investigated a possible connection to suspected serial killer Terry Peder Rasmussen, also known as Bob Evans.

According to the New Hampshire Attorney General’s Office, 17-year-old Elizabeth “Liz” Lamotte went missing on Nov. 22, 1984, when she left the Youth Development Center on a furlough to Gill Stadium and never returned.

Her case was discharged from YDC on July 27, 1985, on what would have been her 18th birthday, even though she had still not returned to the facility.

The partially decomposed body of a young female was found on April 14, 1985, along Interstate 81 in Greene County, Tennessee, officials said.

"That would have been about six months after (Lamotte) was last seen in Manchester, New Hampshire, so I'm sure the family has had questions all these years about what they could've done, what could be done to help find her, and now they know it wasn't long after she went missing that she was killed," Senior Assistant Attorney General Susan Morrell said.

Investigators said the death was ruled a homicide and that an autopsy revealed that she died of blunt force trauma to the head about two to three weeks before her body was discovered.

Tennessee officials were unable to determine the identity of the victim, and she was listed as a Jane Doe.

Investigators submitted a sample of the victim's remains to the University of North Texas Center for Human Identification in 2006, allowing the center to develop a DNA profile for the victim, which was entered into the Combined DNA Index System.

On Tuesday, investigators confirmed that Lamotte was a match to the homicide victim’s DNA profile

Lamotte was not reported as missing to Manchester police until 2017, after a January 2017 press conference held by the Attorney General's Office, the New Hampshire State Police Cold Case Unit and the Manchester Police Department regarding the Allenstown unidentified persons cases.

(more at link)
Remains of teen missing from Manchester since 1984 identified because of Bob Evans case

Elizabeth Lamotte case here on WS - NH - NH - Elizabeth Lamotte, 16, Manchester, 6 April 1984

Oh wow. That is already a huge breakthrough.

 

[Richard]

With these recent identifications of previously unknown victims from New Hampshire, and their potential connection with serial killer Terry Pender Rasmussen (aka Bob Evans), perhaps other unsolved cases can also be connected.

Although Rasmussen is now dead, other connections might be made which will help to identify or locate other victims.

Further searches of his known body dump sites could reveal other graves or remains, and a careful search of any of his existing belongings, or previously taken evidence might yield useful clues.

What was this guy's territory, travel path, living places, and time line? Who were his associates? What connections can be made with other unsolved cases?

 

[Mrs. Badcrumble]

With these recent identifications of previously unknown victims from New Hampshire, and their potential connection with serial killer Terry Pender Rasmussen (aka Bob Evans), perhaps other unsolved cases can also be connected.

Although Rasmussen is now dead, other connections might be made which will help to identify or locate other victims.

Further searches of his known body dump sites could reveal other graves or remains, and a careful search of any of his existing belongings, or previously taken evidence might yield useful clues.

What was this guy's territory, travel path, living places, and time line? Who were his associates? What connections can be made with other unsolved cases?

@folieadeuxnola provides an excellent timeline in the TPR thread
NH/CA - Terry Peder Rasmussen, suspected SK, Allenstown, 1981-2000's - #3

There is also an info post:
Terry Peder Rasmussen: Media, Timelines, Photos *NO-DISCUSSION

 

[carbuff]

Check particularly the NH state police press conference from January 2017, where they answer just about every question they had the answer to at the time.

The investigation is definitely continuing. From what I hear from friends in the area, finding Lamotte is just the first of a bunch of new news.

 

[Alleykins]

With these recent identifications of previously unknown victims from New Hampshire, and their potential connection with serial killer Terry Pender Rasmussen (aka Bob Evans), perhaps other unsolved cases can also be connected.

Although Rasmussen is now dead, other connections might be made which will help to identify or locate other victims.

Further searches of his known body dump sites could reveal other graves or remains, and a careful search of any of his existing belongings, or previously taken evidence might yield useful clues.

What was this guy's territory, travel path, living places, and time line? Who were his associates? What connections can be made with other unsolved cases?

They did go back and search the area in 2017
ttps://www.wmur.com/article/area-where-bodies-found-in-barrels-searched-again/9567276