NY-LI 10 bodies found on Beach-Poss. SrlKlr-12/10-4 id'd; more found 3/11 #8

[Mountain_Kat]

I don't think SG called CVS becuase she was asking about a possible interaction with her bipolar med. From everything I've read from her family, she refused to take that kind of medication. I'm not sure SG actually made the call. Since it's the last call logged, and her phone is now nowhere to be found, I think JB or the driver used her phone. If she was that upset I just don't think she was thinking clearly enough to call a pharmacy. That's the act of a rational person..and everything we know so far, she was just not rational for whatever reason during that time. But if I was nervous about someone's behavior that I thought might be drug induced and called the CVS, I would not want caller ID bringing up my number. I would use SG's phone.

BBM

I don't agree that a call to CVS would have required the kind of rational thinking you're suggesting. Speaking to someone at the pharmacy may have, but since this call lasted less than 1 minute, I doubt she did speak to anyone at CVS. At any rate, SG was rational enough to call 911 and ask for assistance, so I see nothing to suggest she would have been too irrational to call a pharmacy as well. JMO

And just to clarify...the last call logged on SG's phone was the 911 call. The call to CVS came before a series of calls to her driver and her call to 911.

 

[Mountain_Kat]

Mountainkat --

where was it reported that the 4 Craigslist victims were all nude and all strangled?

That's a really good question, MrsPC. I've been thinking those were established facts in this case for some time now, but perhaps they aren't so well established. :waitasec:

Let me see what I can dig up this morning.

ETA:

Officials have not released the cause of death, but called them "substantially similar." http://www.newsday.com/news/breaking/source-no-burlap-among-latest-remains-1.2810091


This article quotes a source as saying all 4 victims were strangled, and that one victim still had something around her neck: http://www.newsday.com/news/breaking/details-emerge-in-barrier-island-case-1.2811767

 

[minazoe]

I thought one body was found with a ligature...and that all bodies were stripped clean of any identifying items...jewlery, clothing, purses...

 

[Just K]

In an effort to find a larger/easier to read Suffolk County District Attorney Handout, I ended up looking over the DA's site. Just out of curiosity, I looked at the "Suffolk County Most Wanted" listings. It was interesting to see that there are a few women who could easily match the description of the GB4. Presumably these women are "off the radar" or they wouldn't be wanted. They would have been arrested. Their crimes include possession-type, possession with intent and larcenies offenses.

Maybe LE, investigating the unidentified bodies, might want to see if they match any of these women with outstanding warrants. If family members think that the women are on the run they surely wouldn't file a missing person report.

 

[Seaslug44]

After looking at the map posted by shadowraiths I wonder if the SK once may have worked at Grumman's Calverton facility... It's very close to the Manorville sites. It's closed now. Was the SK commuting from the south shore of LI and felt comfortable in these two areas, Ocean Parkway and the backroads / woods around Calverton?

Or someone who hunts and/or fishes, or someone who travels to New England via the Orient Point/New London Ferry (to places like MAINE), or someone who visits Splish Splash water park every summer, or someone who visits the Tanger's shopping outlets, or someone who visits the Long Island Game Farm, or someone who works in the Brookhaven National Laboratory, or someone who camps at Wildwood state park....

The list of possibilities are endless and exhausting.

Then again, it could just be someone who took a drive out East and picked the closest road they could find to the LIE that was dark and secluded. The locals have already established that who ever dumped the Manorville bodies probably wasn't from there and was not familiar with the area (because if they were familiar with the area, they would have known that there are hundreds of more remote locations nearby in the Pine Barrens where the bodies would have never been discovered and where it would have been even less risky to dump them).

I'm sticking by my theory that these victims were dumped by someone hired to do it by a crime organization. The delivery person(s) may not even have been the actual killers (just someone ordered to dispose of the remains). This has classic organized crime written all over it.

 

[Seaslug44]

Speaking of ...

Tandem Serial Killers Through History
Authored by John Fredrik in Criminal Law
Published on 11-04-2009

Depending on the study, researchers claim that currently 6-15% of all serial killers are Tandem Serial Killers. These Serial Killers hunt and kill as a team, and like their solo counterparts, Tandem Serial Killers have been documented in several countries.

[...]

Bordello owner sisters Delfina and Maria Gonzales of Guanajuato, Mexico murdered over 90 men, women, and babies in their decade long run as Tandem Serial Killers from the 1950’s until their discovery in 1963. Most of their victims were their own prostitutes, who had become pregnant or otherwise undesirable. The pair was convicted in 1964 to 40 years in prison.

[...]

Except for Antarctica, Tandem Serial Killers operate on every continent, hunting everyone from homeless children, to the wealthy. They have been killing for hundreds of years and their crimes rank among the most gruesome of all. If you fall into their sights, it is unlikely you will live to tell the tale.​

Article link

Or if there is more than one serial killer out there acting alone, it could be a coincidence.

“All I can say about Mr. Rifkin is, it appears coincidental at this time that Mr. Rifkin was apparently operating at the same time as Mr. Shulman and engaged in similar activity,” Detective Lt. John Gierasch, the former head of the Suffolk County police Homicide Squad, told the New York Times in 1996.

 

[Mountain_Kat]

I thought one body was found with a ligature...and that all bodies were stripped clean of any identifying items...jewlery, clothing, purses...

Thanks for the jumping off point, Minazoe.

http://www.thedailybeast.com/blogs-...-serial-killer-victims-bond-in-support-group/

<snip>

The bodies, which were found within 500 feet of each other, were all in various states of decomposition and stripped of their jewelry, identification, purses, and clothing.

</snip>

 

[Just K]

Maybe it is time to look at the men that orbited the lives of the murdered women and see if there is anything/any specific place that connects these men to each other. Certainly, it has been reported there are arrest records for quite a few of the BFs, drivers, and pimps but did any of them work for the same groups/businesses?

Could there be commonalities in the arrests, area or location of arrest, arresting agency/officers anything that ties these men together?

 

[dcgrumpy]

BBM

I don't agree that a call to CVS would have required the kind of rational thinking you're suggesting. Speaking to someone at the pharmacy may have, but since this call lasted less than 1 minute, I doubt she did speak to anyone at CVS. At any rate, SG was rational enough to call 911 and ask for assistance, so I see nothing to suggest she would have been too irrational to call a pharmacy as well. JMO

And just to clarify...the last call logged on SG's phone was the 911 call. The call to CVS came before a series of calls to her driver and her call to 911.

Bur she's not from the area. When she called 911 she told them she was on Fire Island. How would she know which was the closest pharmacy when she didn't even know where she was?

 

[bearschick]

I've been thinking that the call to CVS might be a wrong number. Dialing a phone number and getting it wrong? I know it takes me forever to find numbers if I haven't called that person recently.

 

[relay]

I wonder how she might have found the number to CVS if she didn't live in the area and already have it programmed into her phone. Did she have access to a phone book at jb's? It doesn't seem that she called 411 from her phone or we might have heard about that by now. If she had a simple disposable phone she couldn't have looked up the number online via her phone, either, right?

 

[ThoughtFox]

Thanks for the jumping off point, Minazoe.

http://www.thedailybeast.com/blogs-...-serial-killer-victims-bond-in-support-group/

<snip>

The bodies, which were found within 500 feet of each other, were all in various states of decomposition and stripped of their jewelry, identification, purses, and clothing.

</snip>

Right, and Nancy Grace reported that fact over and over when she covered this case. It would be in the transcripts. I think that's why it became such common knowledge.

 

[turanna25]

I wonder how she might have found the number to CVS if she didn't live in the area and already have it programmed into her phone. Did she have access to a phone book at jb's? It doesn't seem that she called 411 from her phone or we might have heard about that by now. If she had a simple disposable phone she couldn't have looked up the number online via her phone, either, right?

Well.. in one of the articles I read it talked about as she was driving around with the driver she placed craigslist ads and responded to people from her phone. If I get a second while I'm at work today I'll try to find the article. My guess is maybe she had an iPhone? I have one and I can search for just about anything. I don't know.. just thinking out loud.

 

[Seaslug44]

I've been thinking that the call to CVS might be a wrong number. Dialing a phone number and getting it wrong? I know it takes me forever to find numbers if I haven't called that person recently.

This is so obvious to me now...

What area code would SG normally reside in?

If she was hysterical, she probably failed to remember to dial the area code of the number she was really trying to reach. CVS's phone number is 631-422-1912 but being that her phone was in the 631 area code at the time of the call, she could have been dialing just 422-1912 and was connected to CVS instead of whoever that number belongs to in her own area code back home!

The question is... was she thinking home as in New Jersey or home as in Ellenville, NY?

 

[PickleChris]

just dialed that number several times on my iphone and I dialing 1922 every few times..I also have a craigslist posting/viewing app on the phone.

 

[minazoe]

that's really interesting....did SG have a place in NJ?

 

[dcgrumpy]

Well.. in one of the articles I read it talked about as she was driving around with the driver she placed craigslist ads and responded to people from her phone. If I get a second while I'm at work today I'll try to find the article. My guess is maybe she had an iPhone? I have one and I can search for just about anything. I don't know.. just thinking out loud.

But then wouldn't she know where was when she called 911?

 

[minazoe]

Right, and Nancy Grace reported that fact over and over when she covered this case. It would be in the transcripts. I think that's why it became such common knowledge.

you are right thoughtFox, NG did spend alot of time harping on the stripped clean victims and the ligature....

I personally feel the goal is not to prolong id of the victim , but to remove any and all potential evidence..dna...residual evidence...I don't think he gives a hoot if they are id'd.

everything seems right out of the Rifkin playbook IMO...including the dismemberments....although maybe the burlap sack bodies seem a little lazier...in terms of being together and just laying around...scattering body parts is more work intensive....

wonder if there is any surgical aspect to the dismemberments..it's not easy to do so they can tell if there was any precision involved...

 

[Wondergirl]

I just read that LE now thinks there are 4 Killers involved in the LI case, and, thank goodness WS gave this case it's own forum, because I get confused just reading an article on the subject, omg.

BBM: Does anyone know the 2 Cold Cases they have re-opened?

New York: Long Island murders work of four killers, detectives say.

They have reopened two other cold cases, dating from 1997 and 2007, in which a similar form of dismemberment took place, on the assumption that another serial killer might have been at work.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2011/may/10/new-york-long-island-murders

 

[Seaslug44]

But then wouldn't she know where was when she called 911?

Not sure if you ever have been around someone in a full-blown panic attack. Their thought process is severely limited. This is why we really need access to hear SG's 911 tapes. I can only speculate/envision the 911 operator possibly speaking in a firm voice something like "MISS, WHAT IS YOUR LOCATION AND WHAT IS YOUR EMERGENCY? PLEASE STATE YOUR LOCATION AND THE NATURE OF YOUR EMERGENCY?" over and over again and again...

I do recall reading that when she did state her location, she told the 911 caller that she was out on Fire Island!!

I'm wondering, how did they ever finally figure out she wasn't?

Did SG ask one of the residents for an address?

For all we know, when she was first asked her location, she drew a blank and had to really concentrate to even come up with Fire Island.