OH - 9 killed + Gunman, 16 injured, Mass Shooting, Oregon District, Dayton, 4 Aug 2019

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I'm wondering if he had a history of violence against his parents as well.

I know we're not allowed to sleuth them, but this thought did cross my mind.

I suspect we'll learn more as time goes on.

JMVHO.
Well, he may have been angry and resentful of his parents.

According to the article with an interview with his ex-girlfriend, she couldn't understand why he would kill his sister because he liked her, yet he apparently did not like his parents.
He hurt them in the worst way possible in taking both of their children from them. Imo
 
Not sure why the KILL/RAPE list wasn't deemed a real threat when he was still in HS.
Strangling his friend, holding a loaded gun up to his other friend's head. Those would be considered assault.
Why no arrests? It confuses me. So many ignored red flags by LE before he went amok last Saturday night.
Right? Why, at the very least, no THERAPY? His parents could have easily brought him to a therapist, even if he reluctent...
 
Right? Why, at the very least, no THERAPY? His parents could have easily brought him to a therapist, even if he reluctent...

Naïve as heck statement IMO. Try those shoes. I have with all the resources possible. Even the courts work against you. I had a love one in the psyche ward but they (the county ,released him) in spite of witnesses, testimony, the main psychiatrist in charge of the case testifying against his release, they discharged him. That same psychiatrist, by coincidence, was the head of the County Mental Health dept. EASILY???
 
Sadly, some people aren’t redeemable. They have faulty wiring that can’t be fixed. And sounds like this guy was one of them.

I agree but what do we do with these people? Nothing until they have already hurt or killed someone. I can’t imagine having a child like this. You can’t return the defective child. You are literally stuck until they do something horrible.
 
Naïve as heck statement IMO. Try those shoes. I have with all the resources possible. Even the courts work against you. I had a love one in the psyche ward but they (the county ,released him) in spite of witnesses, testimony, the main psychiatrist in charge of the case testifying against his release, they discharged him. That same psychiatrist, by coincidence, was the head of the County Mental Health dept. EASILY???
I've heard of similar struggles. In this case I have not hear of ANY efforts to obtain therapy. At all. Are you suggesting they tried and failed? Because by all accounts I've seen, he never had any intervention of any kind. Sometime therapy does help.
 
Naïve as heck statement IMO. Try those shoes. I have with all the resources possible. Even the courts work against you. I had a love one in the psyche ward but they (the county ,released him) in spite of witnesses, testimony, the main psychiatrist in charge of the case testifying against his release, they discharged him. That same psychiatrist, by coincidence, was the head of the County Mental Health dept. EASILY???
Also, was this "loved one" of yours a child?. A minor, for whom you were responsible? ( Medically, legally?).
 
When the dead have been buried and the legal/political score settled, we will still be facing a nation of angry young men. Does it escape everyone's notice, that all the proposed and much argued "solutions" to mass shootings, fall far short of addressing alienated, angry, young people?

When will there be some "legislation" proposed, that we have to take our kid's, and their problems seriously? That we can't rely on mandated reporters, school personnel, friends or others to notice when our children exhibit violent anti-social tendencies.

Where can parents turn, when they suspect their child is dangerous, but there is no (legal) proof?

imo, this generation, of newly minted, "adults" is in crisis for which we have NO system in place to deal with. No manual or guidelines...

Take away all the weapons you can, and you still are still left with the genesis of the problem. When are we going to get around the solutions for that?

eta: There's been a gigantic shift in the dynamics of American families, and clearly it has not been beneficial to our children. Particularly our boys. I really think we need to look at that a lot harder than we are willing to.

As a teacher, our hands are tied also. Violent kids are reported and it’s ignored. They are sent right back to class
 
I agree but what do we do with these people? Nothing until they have already hurt or killed someone. I can’t imagine having a child like this. You can’t return the defective child. You are literally stuck until they do something horrible.
Yes! Exactly, (unless you are a foster/adoptive parent. In those cases you can actually, literally, "return" the child, It's called a "Disrupted Adoption").
 
Maybe people should start going to the media and saying their kid said they were going to shoot up a school/walmart or whatever even if they didn't say that. I think that's what I would do if I was desperate.
 
CB visited Oregon district bars often. He also stated to friends that he could do so much damage while in bars with them. He likely scooped out and thought about the damage he could cause with every bar he went to. It’s said he was in surveillance video in blind bobs the night before the shooting. Why Saturday night? Why after all this time and fantasizing about it out load to multiple people, why Saturday? What did he do during the day Saturday?
 
Maybe people should start going to the media and saying their kid said they were going to shoot up a school/walmart or whatever even if they didn't say that. I think that's what I would do if I was desperate.
At least your thinking outside the box. Cause this is not a problem that is going to be solved by Gun Control, Thoughts & Prayers, or Random Acts of Kindness in the aftermath.
 
I feel like this is NOT a rare situation.
Why are they so many violent angry children?
(theoretical question.)

Personally? I don't think they have an outlet for their anger and it builds and builds, til it explodes. It is not okay to be an angry young male in this country. It's just frowned upon.

Seeking mental health assistance still carries a stigma, especially for males, and it shouldn't. Many who could benefit from meds either never get them, or, they go off of them b/c they don't like the side effects.

One can have 5 kids and none of them will be alike, although raised in the same household. One child, or more, may end up with a personality disorder, or impulse control issues. Getting these kids into basic skills training, at the right time, so they can adapt to life outside the home, and providing them with the coping skills, to manage problem solving, and impulse control, would be of help, I believe.

No one wants to hear that their child has a personality disorder, but pediatricians, really should listen to parents, when they have concerns, about their child's behaviour issues, and provide the parents with direction. They used to say, "It takes a village to raise a child", and we don't have that mindset anymore.
 
Yes! Exactly, (unless you are a foster/adoptive parent. In those cases you can actually, literally, "return" the child, It's called a "Disrupted Adoption").

I know someone who did this. As long as they'd had the child, and kept their sib, I can only imagine how angry that child is now (not to mention the resentment the sib must feel).
 
I know someone who did this. As long as they'd had the child, and kept their sib, I can only imagine how angry that child is now (not to mention the resentment the sib must feel).
I've always felt that if you legally become a child's parent, you should be held to the same legal and moral obligations as a natural parent would. Birth parents are not "pet shops".
 
Not sure why the KILL/RAPE list wasn't deemed a real threat when he was still in HS.
Strangling his friend, holding a loaded gun up to his other friend's head. Those would be considered assault.
Why no arrests? It confuses me. So many ignored red flags by LE before he went amok last Saturday night.
Were the strangling and the loaded gun reported to LE?
 
I prefer to hold off on judging the parents until we know more. It’s quite possible they tried to get help for their son but had nowhere to go. Friends of the Sandy Hook shooter’s mother say it was no secret she’d tried to get her son assistance from multiple sources but was turned away.

Or perhaps they did get help and the mental heath professional(s) assured them he wasn’t dangerous (like the U of C counselor who discouraged police from placing the Aurora theatre shooter on a hold for mental health evauation just weeks before his crime).

I have friends with a child just 10 that has already threatened lives of family members and w/the help of Google tried to build a bomb. Their parents took them to multiple psychologists but nothing helped. They almost went broke because insurance wouldn’t cover more than 12 visits yet they were denied public resources because they made “too much money”. And these are not rich people!

Their older child told their school counselor they felt their life was in danger at home because of the troubled sibling, but school and DFS never followed up. Imagine being a teenager fearing for your life, summoning up the courage to tell “authorities” and no-one cares. The messages they took away from that were a) their life doesn’t matter. b) speaking up just creates trouble and c) F#%K school!

Now that kids depressed and cutting class. Not good.

But back to the troubled kid. Eventually a psychologist told my friends to take the child to an ER and have them admitted. The hospital transfered the kid to a mental heath facility for observation, and after a week professionals there said the parents needed to take the child home and “get them some therapy”. Which of course they’d already done.

The parents realized if the kid came home one of them would have to move out with the other kids in order to keep them safe. For the first time in an otherwise happy marraige there was talk of divorce.

My friends consulted a family attorney who advised them to not pick up the child. They would be charged with child abandonment but as a ward of the state the child would finally get the help they needed.

They followed the attorney’s advice and DFS (the same DFS that did absolutely NOTHING when the sibling reported they felt unsafe at home) immediately started an abandonment investigation. For the sake of all their children they stuck to their guns, endured public critisism and decided to take their chances in court defending “abandonment” charges. First so their child could finally receive the mental health treatment they so badly needed. And also so they didn’t have to continue to lock up their knives, bleach, scissors, lighters, matches and anything else their 10 year old might try to kill them with.

When they explained their dilema to DFS, instead of providing menta health resouces DFS put their efforts towards finding an extended family member that would take the child in. And granted custody to relatives who’s own children are drug/alcohol addicts and/or convicted criminals. The child is still not getting the help they need, and they’re getting older. Soon if they feel like it they’ll be able to drive to their parent’s house and burn it down. Or run their siblings/schoolmates over in the street. Or both.

This child has no criminal record. They will be able to buy firearms legally in just a few years. (and no philosophy here-IMO stricter gun laws wouldn’t stop this kid from getting one illegaly if necessary). This child has been exhibiting multiple red flags for years and could very well be in the news soon committing some heinous act of violence. These parents are aware enough to recognize it and resisted the urge to stick their heads in the sand. They feel helpless and are worried sick.

I’m sure there are other families in similar situations, also at a loss as to what they can do. Some of their kids will hurt people, thankfully lots more probably won’t. But mental health resources need to be available to counsel those kids who can be helped and identify the ones who can’t.

These shootings aren’t because of Trump supporters or leftist socialists. It sickens me to see politicians, pundits and “news” venues use mass shootings as a tool to further political agendas and fan more hate. It won’t help a bit and IMO just gives the next batch of shooters more reason to get all worked up.

If only politicians, community activists, religious leaders, school officials and society in general would abandon the heady thrill of hate/righteous indignation. Imagine what could be accomplished if that energy were redirected and people worked together to promote tolerance and make sure mental health resources are available to anyone who needs them. But that won’t generate ratings, clicks or win elections. So it’ll never happen.
Actually Adam Lanza had numerous mental health evaluations and therapy both in school and afterwards.

The Doctors at Yale University diagnosed and treated him, recommending rigorous ongoing therapy, special education services, and medication.

Most of this went unheeded. His mother stopped giving him medication after one day due to side effects.

The doctors at Yale University found that he was sheltered and that his mother accommodated his disabilities rather than treat them.
They claimed that it was not his diagnosis that contributed to the events leading up to the shooting but the fact that it was not treated. Imo
 
About an hour after he entered, at 12:13 a.m., Betts is seen stopping by the entrance, speaking with staff at the door, then exiting.

Beard and Megan Betts remain in the bar for approximately 45 minutes before they are seen leaving at around 12:59 a.m., a timeline that has not been reported before.

-----------------------------------------------------

"We do know there was some communication once they separated," Biehl said.

---------------------------------------------------

Minutes later at 1:06 a.m. on Sunday, the first calls came into 911
to report the shooting.

Exclusive video shows Dayton gunman Connor Betts in bar in hours before shooting - CNN

That is an extremely tight timeline. Definitely either one huge coincidence or they had planned to meet at a certain time.
 
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