GUILTY OH - Pike Co, 8 in Rhoden Family Murdered Over Custody Issue, 4 Members Wagner Family Arrested #67

[sunshineray]

I don't like even bringing this up...

"The defense lawyers say that Jake Wagner told prosecutors during his confession (which prosecutors call a proffer) that George Wagner IV didn't shoot anyone that night.

But during Wednesday's hearing, special prosecutor Angela Canepa told Deering she thought there was something important to note: "We are not stipulating that George Wagner did not shoot anybody. We are stipulating that according to Jake Wagner's proffer, George did not shoot anybody. That's an important distinction."

Rhoden killings: Attorney for George Wagner IV says prosecutors 'made a deal with the devil'

I'm confused by AC's words. To me it sounds like she's admitting that JW was not truthful in his proffer.

Is she actually acknowledging that in the proffer sometimes JW tells the truth and sometimes he lies?

How is this statement she made helpful at all? I mean JW is the prosecution's star witness.

 

[Ann99]

I don't like even bringing this up...

"The defense lawyers say that Jake Wagner told prosecutors during his confession (which prosecutors call a proffer) that George Wagner IV didn't shoot anyone that night.

But during Wednesday's hearing, special prosecutor Angela Canepa told Deering she thought there was something important to note: "We are not stipulating that George Wagner did not shoot anybody. We are stipulating that according to Jake Wagner's proffer, George did not shoot anybody. That's an important distinction."

Rhoden killings: Attorney for George Wagner IV says prosecutors 'made a deal with the devil'

I'm confused by AC's words. To me it sounds like she's admitting that JW was not truthful in his proffer.

Is she actually acknowledging that in the proffer sometimes JW tells the truth and sometimes he lies?

How is this statement she made helpful at all? I mean JW is the prosecution's star witness.

I have thought about this. MO
Could be that Jake and George4 were not side by side or in the same room or even in the same location constantly on 4/22.
Jake may have confessed, testified, or proffered, truthfully to what he knew of as first hand information.
But Jake may not have been aware of all George4 actions, and AC may have proof that George4 shot somebody and she knows it was possible to have been done without Jake’s knowledge.
Both scenarios can be true.
Jake confessed, testified, proffered, truthfully according to Jake’s knowledge.
An “important distinction,” according to AC could be that the Prosecution has solid evidence otherwise. Meaning, G4 did shoot somebody.
Also, since AW claims to have been at home, not on UHR on 4/22, AW got all of her information of the actions on 4/22 for each W at each location as second hand.
AW testimony or proffer could differ from the testimony of the other three on subtle ( or more significant ) ways or facts.
AW knows only what she was told by the other W individuals. .
They are all liars. Makes it difficult to sort out.
I believe AC is doing the best she can in negotiating the Prosecution’s way thru this mess.
AC is very careful with her words and wording.

 

[Covert Operative]

I don't like even bringing this up...

"The defense lawyers say that Jake Wagner told prosecutors during his confession (which prosecutors call a proffer) that George Wagner IV didn't shoot anyone that night.

But during Wednesday's hearing, special prosecutor Angela Canepa told Deering she thought there was something important to note: "We are not stipulating that George Wagner did not shoot anybody. We are stipulating that according to Jake Wagner's proffer, George did not shoot anybody. That's an important distinction."

Rhoden killings: Attorney for George Wagner IV says prosecutors 'made a deal with the devil'

I'm confused by AC's words. To me it sounds like she's admitting that JW was not truthful in his proffer.

Is she actually acknowledging that in the proffer sometimes JW tells the truth and sometimes he lies?

How is this statement she made helpful at all? I mean JW is the prosecution's star witness.

To me it would not be helpful in a trial if the state or the defense would try to say that JW is truthful about this fact but lying about that fact. I could see that being an issue for jurors that are trying to decide the case.

Around the 26:00 mark she says something like we are not stipulating that G4 did not shoot anyone because we do not know that. To me that means that they may think it but cannot prove it at this point in the trial. I do not think she would make that statement if they could prove it and was a little surprised that she would say that in court.

His confession probably caused some problems for both sides but what they gained from it was probably worth the issues they may have to deal with.

Also, he could have made contradictions about AW, BW, G4, himself or other details, he may not have contradicted himself about G4 shooting or she could have meant that he did.

 

[Covert Operative]

Three guns, Three shooters.

Is there any scenario that could have happened that you can think of (truthful or not by JW ) where there would be 3 guns used but two shooters.

 

[StrangeOne]

I don't like even bringing this up...

"The defense lawyers say that Jake Wagner told prosecutors during his confession (which prosecutors call a proffer) that George Wagner IV didn't shoot anyone that night.

But during Wednesday's hearing, special prosecutor Angela Canepa told Deering she thought there was something important to note: "We are not stipulating that George Wagner did not shoot anybody. We are stipulating that according to Jake Wagner's proffer, George did not shoot anybody. That's an important distinction."

Rhoden killings: Attorney for George Wagner IV says prosecutors 'made a deal with the devil'

I'm confused by AC's words. To me it sounds like she's admitting that JW was not truthful in his proffer.

Is she actually acknowledging that in the proffer sometimes JW tells the truth and sometimes he lies?

How is this statement she made helpful at all? I mean JW is the prosecution's star witness.

I think she is saying to take JWs word with a grain of salt. They have evidence he did shot the victims and I think it will come out in court. Either way...if he did or didn't they all three went with the intention to commit murder and did, in fact, do just that. They all deserve LWOP or worse even. AW deserves more than she got.

 

[Covert Operative]

Just a couple of questions.

Re: County Jail vs. State Prison

Are overall conditions considered "better" or worse in one or the other? How and why?

Re: Commissary Account

Is there a monthly limit on the amount that is allowed to be deposited in a Commissary account?
Is there a monthly limit on the amount a prisoner can spend at the Commissary?
Commissary differences between County Jails and State Prisons? Does it differ between states?

TIA

Let's assume that the jail calls cost $10.oo per 15 minute call and that all the calls are 15 min.

For BW, calls from 3-8-21 through 6-9-21 (total of 202) would be 2020.00 for 3 months. Approx 673.00 per month.

At 5.00 per call for 15 minutes it would be $1010.00 for the 3 months, $336 per month for BW. There are a lot of variables that can go into the number of mins X the number of calls X the cost but those are just two examples, one on the high side and one on the low side. I believe jail calls in a lot of states may cost more than 15.00 per 15 mins.

That is a lot of money just for him and then you add the other 3 making calls (except AW for quite a long time), it is a large amount of money for calls. There are some lists on the internet that have prices for commissary items in some jails. Having a lot of money on one's commissary could cause them some issues with other inmates.

 

[Covert Operative]

G4
01/19/2022 ORDER TO CONVEY DEFENDANT FROM MONTGOMERY COUNTY JAIL TO PIKE COUNTY COURTHOUSE ON WEDNESDAY, JANUARY 19, 2022 AT 11:00AM

I was told it is not a hearing.

 

[Ann99]

G4
01/19/2022 ORDER TO CONVEY DEFENDANT FROM MONTGOMERY COUNTY JAIL TO PIKE COUNTY COURTHOUSE ON WEDNESDAY, JANUARY 19, 2022 AT 11:00AM

I was told it is not a hearing.

What could it be?

 

[Covert Operative]

What could it be?

This is the 2nd time it has happened. Deposition?

Most depositions won't be used for more than leverage to reach a settlement before a case goes to trial. A deposition can be used as evidence in court, but a settlement is usually the goal.

 

[sunshineray]

Is there any scenario that could have happened that you can think of (truthful or not by JW ) where there would be 3 guns used but two shooters.

And that's what I think the prosecution is going to hammer into a jury. The guns and what GW4 said in txts or posts about guns HE had. Match that up to the evidence and like you said 3 guns, 3 shooters. I just wonder if jury members hearing JW testify to his knowledge GW4 didn't kill anyone is enough to throw a wrench in his prosecution. Hope not.

 

[sunshineray]

I think she is saying to take JWs word with a grain of salt. They have evidence he did shot the victims and I think it will come out in court. Either way...if he did or didn't they all three went with the intention to commit murder and did, in fact, do just that. They all deserve LWOP or worse even. AW deserves more than she got.

Soooo agree!

 

[sunshineray]

G4
01/19/2022 ORDER TO CONVEY DEFENDANT FROM MONTGOMERY COUNTY JAIL TO PIKE COUNTY COURTHOUSE ON WEDNESDAY, JANUARY 19, 2022 AT 11:00AM

I was told it is not a hearing.

Ohhh boy, what's going on?

 

[IType]

This is the 2nd time it has happened. Deposition?

Most depositions won't be used for more than leverage to reach a settlement before a case goes to trial. A deposition can be used as evidence in court, but a settlement is usually the goal.

By "settlement", do you mean a plea change/deal?

The first trip to the courthouse for something other than a hearing was odd. Now there is a second one a month and a half later, and it was just filed today to bring him to the courthouse today--even more odd.

Could he be giving a deposition to be used in BW's case, maybe as part of a plea deal for himself? If so, why can't they do that at the jail where he is being kept?

 

[Covert Operative]

By "settlement", do you mean a plea change/deal?

The first trip to the courthouse for something other than a hearing was odd. Now there is a second one a month and a half later, and it was just filed today to bring him to the courthouse today--even more odd.

Could he be giving a deposition to be used in BW's case, maybe as part of a plea deal for himself? If so, why can't they do that at the jail where he is being kept?

Perhaps depositions have to be under oath and require a stenographer so maybe why the court house or maybe for logistic reasons?

The deposition information/meaning came from the internet but I assume it could mean settlement in civil case or plea agreement in criminal case. I could only see him pleading the 5th on any information if he would not benefit from answering.

I had thought the same, maybe he will give information on BW to come to agreement on his own plea deal. I am thinking they would like to have even more information on BW than what they have already been told.

Could also be someone else that is doing a deposition and they are going there for that.

 

[Covert Operative]

And that's what I think the prosecution is going to hammer into a jury. The guns and what GW4 said in txts or posts about guns HE had. Match that up to the evidence and like you said 3 guns, 3 shooters. I just wonder if jury members hearing JW testify to his knowledge GW4 didn't kill anyone is enough to throw a wrench in his prosecution. Hope not.

I think it was another poster that said 3 guns/3 shooters. While that may be the actual truth, I am not sure that is what was said or what could be proven at this time in the case. JW may mess up on his testimony on the stand though and say something incriminating about G4 shooting someone. That is a possibility.

 

[Cool Cats]

Ohhh boy, what's going on?

This happened before on December 2nd. There was no sudden guilty plea from George when he then came for his December 22nd Hearing so I think it could have been a Deposition.

11/30/2021 WARRANT FOR REMOVAL FROM ROSS COUNTY JAIL ON DECEMBER 2, 2021 AT 10:00AM

It makes sense George would go to a Deposition at the Courthouse. For an oral Deposition you need a court reporter, and because of George's status as a high profile jail inmate it is not feasible for George to go to his attorney's offices for Deposistions.

There also is the possibility it is a closed door meeting involving the Judge.

Note they are trying to keep certain information out of the public eye. Could involve witnessess.

12/22/2021 ORDER TO SEAL TWO MOTIONS AND 2 JOURNAL ENTRIES FILED -- ALL FILED UNDER SEAL

They are seriously getting ready for trial.

MOTION NO. 78 and 79 DEFENDANT'S MOTION FOR PROPOSED JURY INSTRUCTION

 

[Covert Operative]

By "settlement", do you mean a plea change/deal?

The first trip to the courthouse for something other than a hearing was odd. Now there is a second one a month and a half later, and it was just filed today to bring him to the courthouse today--even more odd.

Could he be giving a deposition to be used in BW's case, maybe as part of a plea deal for himself? If so, why can't they do that at the jail where he is being kept?

It also could be someone else that is being deposed. I think the defendant and their attorneys have the right to attend if they choose or maybe they are the ones that are doing the deposition of someone else.
Could be someone being deposed that they think may not make it to trial. Could be for the civil case or criminal case I guess.

 

[Cool Cats]

As a follow up question, what can $300-400 per month purchase through the commissary? In other word how much are they being price gouged? $20 for toothpaste?? How much per minute of phone calls?? - I'm trying to figure out if the number of phone calls the W4 made used up their entire monthly Commissary $.

TIA

Southeastern Ohio Regional Jail Inmate Phone Calls

Securus Phone System Cost & Fees - *Subject to Change

ADVANCE CONNECT Phone Calls
$0.21 per minute

INMATE DEBIT Phone Calls
$0.21 per minute

DIRECT BILL Phone Calls
$0.25 per minute

TRADITIONAL COLLECT Phone Calls
$0.25 per minute

VOICEMAIL Message
One minute - $0.75 per minute

For current online rate quote, go here.

If you’re wondering how much to send your loved one for commissary, $200 is good to get them started. This will get them the basics, like shoes, a radio, MP3 player and hygiene products.

With $50 from home a month, you can buy everything that you need. With $100 per month you can live very well in prison.

5 top commissary items inmates in Northeast Ohio crave the most

1. Ramen Noodle Soup- $1.00
2. Iced Honey Buns- $1.20
3. Twin Beef Sticks- $1.30
4. Jalapeno Potato Chips- $.70
5. Instant Coffee- $3.67

• Montgomery County Jail Commissary, Care Packs, Gifts | Dayton, Ohio
• Inmate Commissary

PRICES

 

[Antimony]

I really believe that there were three shooters for three guns. Any time you are doing something important with other people using tools, I myself, prefer to use my own tools and shy away from others tools. Likewise, I do not like for someone else to use my personal set of tools. Some of you might have the same type of thoughts on this. For me, I am just more confident using my own chainsaw or soldering iron or gun. As the Marines say about their rifles, "There are millions like it, but this one is mine".

 

[sunshineray]

G4
01/19/2022 ORDER TO CONVEY DEFENDANT FROM MONTGOMERY COUNTY JAIL TO PIKE COUNTY COURTHOUSE ON WEDNESDAY, JANUARY 19, 2022 AT 11:00AM

I was told it is not a hearing.

Have you heard anymore? I've been looking at a few local stations and social media and I don't see any mention.
Edit: Can someone check Facebook?