UNSOLVED Oh - Pike County: 8 People From One Family Dead As Police Hunt For Killer(s) #33

[MittenScarpetta]

I picked up on that but I can’t make the connection between the death penalty if caught. The motive can’t be something small it has to be something pretty significant for the risk the killers took killing 8 people. Not 1 or 2 but 8. It seems as though at least 1 at each scene either had to know something, have seen something, were involved in something or were a threat. I can see where some were at the wrong place at the wrong time.

But the risk is substantial.

The risk is substantial BUT what if only a couple of the victims were the targets and the rest were simply killed because they had to be.

What if only 4 people had been home that night? Would only 4 people had been killed or would 8 people still had been killed wherever they may have been?

That’s one of the factors that makes this difficult to nail down one motive. We don’t know who the killers were truly after. Yes, they killed 8 people but that doesn’t mean that 8 people were their primary targets.

IMO, there’s 5 people who could have been the primary target, which person(s) was it though? Was it a few of them as a group that royally ticked someone off? Or was it just one person?

FR is not on my list as a primary target, neither is HHG. But someone still went in their home and killed them while they lay in bed. We’ve seen videos of how far FR & CR1’s homes were from eachother. They were relatively close but not close enough that FR would’ve seen or heard anything that night. He was also in bed, which tells us he probably didn’t see or hear anything that night or he would’ve been up right?

Why did someone shoot a 20 year old petite young woman 5x in the face, but shot a 40 year old grown, larger sized man once in the eye? It does not make sense.

What does Occams Razor tell us?

 

[Betty P]

I’m leaning towards that very thing. The land is not that valuable. Custody. That’s crazy but outside chance. The murders took $500 k out if the market. That’s the only thing i can see that makes sense here.

Other possibilities for motive we've discussed here are that CR1, KR or GR were "snitching" to LE or had threatened such. Some also theorize there was a substantial amount of cash that CR1 or KR were holding.

CR1 may have only had a medium sized commercial MJ grow op, but some have theorized that he may have been selling to groups or individuals who were also trafficking in other drugs. Any disagreement or suspicion by those drug bosses about CR1 would have given them motive to have the family killed.

 

[rsd1200]

With you. I’m looking at all of it. I’m trying to find anything or a combination of everything to justify the death penalty if they were caught. The penalties are harsh with the exception of income from mj.

None of the rest can justify that kind of risk.

If someone is caught with the amount of weed they said they had, then it would be a pretty significant sentence, but, with good time, and first offence, then I doubt they'd serve over a couple years, maybe not even that, even if it was more than weed. Especially if they had someone they could roll on, at a higher level (which can get you killed). I agree with Reader, this is about more than a couple weed grows, and, it may not be over drugs, of any kind, at all.

Maybe someone thought they'd done them foul, and couldn't let it go (look at the newspaper shooter, he'd held onto that hate for years, and let it grow). Maybe whoever did this had thought about doing it, and how they'd do it, for a long time, but it was just thoughts, then, something spurred it into motion, but, what?

 

[rsd1200]

Just trying to set the facts straight. and the facts are that MJ was found and it was a "commercial" amount. IMO that makes some of the victims dealers, traffickers, or whatever it is you call people who deal with illegal substances. In this case it's a fact that LE has stated that commercial amounts of MJ was found on the victims property.

Listen to around the 26:00 minute of the press conference.

Raw: AG, Sheriff's Wednesday update on Pike Co. shooting investigation

We are all aware from the day that the AG spoke the words, marijuana grow, although we've yet to see a photo, surrounding the Rs. As for me, I took Betty's post to mean something else, that the Ws were growing, she clarified at some point, and we were asked not to discuss it again, by the mods. My post was simply clarifying that the one line could be confusing, my point in providing the entire post.

 

[rsd1200]

I’m leaning towards that very thing. The land is not that valuable. Custody. That’s crazy but outside chance. The murders took $500 k out if the market. That’s the only thing i can see that makes sense here.

Encroaching on established turf could also be a possibility. It's bigger than a couple weed grows though. I do believe he's telling that straight.

 

[rsd1200]

The risk is substantial BUT what if only a couple of the victims were the targets and the rest were simply killed because they had to be.

What if only 4 people had been home that night? Would only 4 people had been killed or would 8 people still had been killed wherever they may have been?

That’s one of the factors that makes this difficult to nail down one motive. We don’t know who the killers were truly after. Yes, they killed 8 people but that doesn’t mean that 8 people were their primary targets.

IMO, there’s 5 people who could have been the primary target, which person(s) was it though? Was it a few of them as a group that royally ticked someone off? Or was it just one person?

FR is not on my list as a primary target, neither is HHG. But someone still went in their home and killed them while they lay in bed. We’ve seen videos of how far FR & CR1’s homes were from eachother. They were relatively close but not close enough that FR would’ve seen or heard anything that night. He was also in bed, which tells us he probably didn’t see or hear anything that night or he would’ve been up right?

Why did someone shoot a 20 year old petite young woman 5x in the face, but shot a 40 year old grown, larger sized man once in the eye? It does not make sense.

What does Occams Razor tell us?

We don't know how many times that FR, CR2, or HMR were shot do we? I have "heard" numbers but nothing concrete. GR was shot three times, DR five, in the head and neck. KR being shot only one time leaves a whole other theory open for me.

 

[RAISINISBACK]

I picked up on that but I can’t make the connection between the death penalty if caught. The motive can’t be something small it has to be something pretty significant for the risk the killers took killing 8 people. Not 1 or 2 but 8. It seems as though at least 1 at each scene either had to know something, have seen something, were involved in something or were a threat. I can see where some were at the wrong place at the wrong time.

But the risk is substantial.

BBM

Please don't discount pure rage as a motive. You had two circumstances that could have generated rage and hatred.

1. HR dumped JW, the father of SW, and refused to go back to him. Backdrop on this is JW was 22 I think (could be wrong on his age but he was over 18) when he started going with HR who was 14. It is been said he was abusive and controlling but this was on HR's FB page, nothing has been printed in MSM about why they broke up. Still a 22 year old man dating a 14 year old girl send up signals in my book.

2. GW and CR1 were best friends (Per AW) who had a falling out after GW and JW tried to get HR to sign over her parental rights to little SW (per LM).

There has been many ex's who go into a rage and kill not only the ex spouse but the ex spouses entire family, sometimes not only going from house to house, but driving 50 miles to another town to kill the parents and cousin of the ex spouse.

So don't discount jealousy and rage as a motive for the R's case.

My take:

CR1's trailer--- CR1 was the target, GR was just there.

FR's trailer.....HHG (Who was JW's rival CG's sister)was the target, FR was just there.

DR's trailer....DR and HR was the target, CR2 was just there.

KR's trailer...KR was the target because they needed keys or feared he would drop in on CR1 and interrupt them before they were done (depending on which was you look at it.

The killers....JW and his dad BW and maybe even his brother, GW.
The planner/mastermind....AW.
The helper...Either JM or AM (who is a relative of AW) helped to alert them as to the time DR got home from work.

Sometimes the rage and anger and hatred is so overwhelming the killers don't care if they get the death penalty. Besides who ever thinks they are going to get caught by the "stupid" cops?

JMO

 

[rsd1200]

When they are busting all these drug busts, if there's not a single person saying, I heard X about all those folks who got killed out there that night, then it's someone who knew them well enough that it truly may not have been about weed, or, somebody probably would have been freaked out by going to jail and would say something.




It's been tossed about that KR had cams in the woods. I have been in the woods with a cam owner who forgot where they had their cam, you can't see them, especially if you put them up, so if the cams were there, and they were taken, they'd have to know where they were, as in, helped put them up, or walked them w/KR.

BBM

Please don't discount pure rage as a motive. You had two circumstances that could have generated rage and hatred.

1. HR dumped JW, the father of SW, and refused to go back to him. Backdrop on this is JW was 22 I think (could be wrong on his age but he was over 18) when he started going with HR who was 14. It is been said he was abusive and controlling but this was on HR's FB page, nothing has been printed in MSM about why they broke up. Still a 22 year old man dating a 14 year old girl send up signals in my book.

2. GW and CR1 were best friends (Per AW) who had a falling out after GW and JW tried to get HR to sign over her parental rights to little SW (per LM).

There has been many ex's who go into a rage and kill not only the ex spouse but the ex spouses entire family, sometimes not only going from house to house, but driving 50 miles to another town to kill the parents and cousin of the ex spouse.

So don't discount jealousy and rage as a motive for the R's case.

My take:

CR1's trailer--- CR1 was the target, GR was just there.

FR's trailer.....HHG (Who was JW's rival CG's sister)was the target, FR was just there.

DR's trailer....DR and HR was the target, CR2 was just there.

KR's trailer...KR was the target because they needed keys or feared he would drop in on CR1 and interrupt them before they were done (depending on which was you look at it.

The killers....JW and his dad BW and maybe even his brother, GW.
The planner/mastermind....AW.
The helper...Either JM or AM (who is a relative of AW) helped to alert them as to the time DR got home from work.

Sometimes the rage and anger and hatred is so overwhelming the killers don't care if they get the death penalty. Besides who ever thinks they are going to get caught by the "stupid" cops?

JMO

They were dating, with the knowledge of both parents, as early as June, 2011. HMR was permitted to go on a vacation to Fla., with the Ws, in July of 2011. There were four years difference between them. Mine were not permitted to date at the age of 14, some of their friends were, and when I was young, some of my kin were, and some even married by 16/17. Not uncommon in this region, and not a real uncommon age gap, especially considering he was home-schooled, the parents knew each other, and may have even attended the same church. Not too many places to meet folks when you're a home schooled kid and you live out in the middle of BFE.

If the rumored beating, and the severity of it, that GW3 took, from CR1, just a couple days earlier, is true, I doubt he was able to do a whole lot. Neither he nor CR1 appeared to be in stellar shape. Big guys, but the bigger they are, and the older they are, the harder they fall.

I was thinking this was done by more than two folks but I'm leaning more toward two now. They had easy access, they knew the properties. If the rumor about KR's trail cams are true, then someone had to be with him to set them, or walk them. I was right in front of one the other day, and even the owner missed it, it didn't miss us though.

 

[MittenScarpetta]

We don't know how many times that FR, CR2, or HMR were shot do we? I have "heard" numbers but nothing concrete. GR was shot three times, DR five, in the head and neck. KR being shot only one time leaves a whole other theory open for me.

We don’t. But we can narrow it down to one was shot twice, one was shot 3x, and one was shot 4x, based on the # of shots that was released where it was stated 1 person shot 9x (CR), 2 people shot 5x (DR, HHG), 1 person shot 4x -??, 2 people shot 3x (GR, ??), 1 person shot 2x-???, 1 person shot 1x-KR.

So we know those 3 people are CRjr, HMR, & FR. All 3 were shot less times than HHG but more than KR.

 

[flute4peace]

BBM

Please don't discount pure rage as a motive. You had two circumstances that could have generated rage and hatred.

1. HR dumped JW, the father of SW, and refused to go back to him. Backdrop on this is JW was 22 I think (could be wrong on his age but he was over 18) when he started going with HR who was 14. It is been said he was abusive and controlling but this was on HR's FB page, nothing has been printed in MSM about why they broke up. Still a 22 year old man dating a 14 year old girl send up signals in my book.

2. GW and CR1 were best friends (Per AW) who had a falling out after GW and JW tried to get HR to sign over her parental rights to little SW (per LM).

There has been many ex's who go into a rage and kill not only the ex spouse but the ex spouses entire family, sometimes not only going from house to house, but driving 50 miles to another town to kill the parents and cousin of the ex spouse.

So don't discount jealousy and rage as a motive for the R's case.

My take:

CR1's trailer--- CR1 was the target, GR was just there.

FR's trailer.....HHG (Who was JW's rival CG's sister)was the target, FR was just there.

DR's trailer....DR and HR was the target, CR2 was just there.

KR's trailer...KR was the target because they needed keys or feared he would drop in on CR1 and interrupt them before they were done (depending on which was you look at it.

The killers....JW and his dad BW and maybe even his brother, GW.
The planner/mastermind....AW.
The helper...Either JM or AM (who is a relative of AW) helped to alert them as to the time DR got home from work.

Sometimes the rage and anger and hatred is so overwhelming the killers don't care if they get the death penalty. Besides who ever thinks they are going to get caught by the "stupid" cops?

JMO

Perhaps a threat of pursuing statutory rape charges was made during some of the back & forth arguing between the families?

 

[rsd1200]

We don’t. But we can narrow it down to one was shot twice, one was shot 3x, and one was shot 4x, based on the # of shots that was released where it was stated 1 person shot 9x (CR), 2 people shot 5x (DR, HHG), 1 person shot 4x -??, 2 people shot 3x (GR, ??), 1 person shot 2x-???, 1 person shot 1x-KR.

So we know those 3 people are CRjr, HMR, & FR. All 3 were shot less times than HHG but more than KR.

CRsr = 9
DR = 5 to head and neck - see autopsy
HHG = 5
GR = 3
KR = 1 shot in eye
23 of 32 total shots

Each below were shot at least twice, (autopsy says "multiple" gunshot wounds to head), so that's leaving three shots, unaccounted for;
HR = 2

FR = 2

CRjr = at least 2

Hmmmmm. (I really miss our old emojis)

Edit:
I think DR was in bed. Head and neck. That sounds like the side of her face and neck. I remember BJM saying that HHG was curled on her right side, in the fetal position. She'd have been shot in the head and neck too, I'd guess.
BJM about HHG on side:
Pike County: 'I was not leaving those babies in there'

 

[Betty P]

Perhaps a threat of pursuing statutory rape charges was made during some of the back & forth arguing between the families?

Perhaps, but in a rural area, that age difference may not be something to get locals excited. Pike County doesn't have a really strong record of prosecuting those kinds of cases. They're busy enough with drugs and violence and murder. I could be wrong, though, but it doesn't seem like a threat that would make the W family massacre the Rhodens.

 

[Betty P]

CRsr = 9
DR = 5 to head and neck - see autopsy
HHG = 5
GR = 3
KR = 1 shot in eye
23 of 32 total shots

Each below were shot at least once, b/c of cod, so that's leaving six shots, unaccounted for;
HR = 1

FR = 1

CRjr = 1

Hmmmmm. (I really miss our old emojis)

I also wish we had a new expanded thread for this case where we could more easily store and access this information. Thanks RSD and Mittens for saving me the search.

 

[rsd1200]

I also wish we had a new expanded thread for this case where we could more easily store and access this information. Thanks RSD and Mittens for saving me the search.

I just updated that info. Each of the three would have had to have had at least two gunshot wounds. Are there folders, or a bookmarking system in this new design? I've got most of my stuff saved in folders with name tags, and same for bookmarking. It's just a little thing I set up for me to keep track. There's so much.

 

[Charliegizmo49]

The risk is substantial BUT what if only a couple of the victims were the targets and the rest were simply killed because they had to be.

What if only 4 people had been home that night? Would only 4 people had been killed or would 8 people still had been killed wherever they may have been?

That’s one of the factors that makes this difficult to nail down one motive. We don’t know who the killers were truly after. Yes, they killed 8 people but that doesn’t mean that 8 people were their primary targets.

IMO, there’s 5 people who could have been the primary target, which person(s) was it though? Was it a few of them as a group that royally ticked someone off? Or was it just one person?

FR is not on my list as a primary target, neither is HHG. But someone still went in their home and killed them while they lay in bed. We’ve seen videos of how far FR & CR1’s homes were from eachother. They were relatively close but not close enough that FR would’ve seen or heard anything that night. He was also in bed, which tells us he probably didn’t see or hear anything that night or he would’ve been up right?

Why did someone shoot a 20 year old petite young woman 5x in the face, but shot a 40 year old grown, larger sized man once in the eye? It does not make sense.

What does Occams Razor tell us?

I don’t like Occams Razor. I’m more complex.

Don’t want to seem snippy. My feelings are based on personal experience. Negative personal experience

I just don’t like to be measured by the simplest is always best. That would mean custody was the best reason for murdering 8 people. I hope there aren’t savage monsters out there that would do that.

That would however indicate KR was killed first to obtain keys then everyone else to eliminate the possibility for next of kin who might be qualified to file for custody. Possible but I hope it’s incorrect.

The multiple murders qualify as a capital homicide.

Ohio Capital Punishment Laws - FindLaw

 

[Charliegizmo49]

BBM

Please don't discount pure rage as a motive. You had two circumstances that could have generated rage and hatred.

1. HR dumped JW, the father of SW, and refused to go back to him. Backdrop on this is JW was 22 I think (could be wrong on his age but he was over 18) when he started going with HR who was 14. It is been said he was abusive and controlling but this was on HR's FB page, nothing has been printed in MSM about why they broke up. Still a 22 year old man dating a 14 year old girl send up signals in my book.

2. GW and CR1 were best friends (Per AW) who had a falling out after GW and JW tried to get HR to sign over her parental rights to little SW (per LM).

There has been many ex's who go into a rage and kill not only the ex spouse but the ex spouses entire family, sometimes not only going from house to house, but driving 50 miles to another town to kill the parents and cousin of the ex spouse.

So don't discount jealousy and rage as a motive for the R's case.

My take:

CR1's trailer--- CR1 was the target, GR was just there.

FR's trailer.....HHG (Who was JW's rival CG's sister)was the target, FR was just there.

DR's trailer....DR and HR was the target, CR2 was just there.

KR's trailer...KR was the target because they needed keys or feared he would drop in on CR1 and interrupt them before they were done (depending on which was you look at it.

The killers....JW and his dad BW and maybe even his brother, GW.
The planner/mastermind....AW.
The helper...Either JM or AM (who is a relative of AW) helped to alert them as to the time DR got home from work.

Sometimes the rage and anger and hatred is so overwhelming the killers don't care if they get the death penalty. Besides who ever thinks they are going to get caught by the "stupid" cops?

JMO

Great theory.

 

[Charliegizmo49]

BBM

Please don't discount pure rage as a motive. You had two circumstances that could have generated rage and hatred.

1. HR dumped JW, the father of SW, and refused to go back to him. Backdrop on this is JW was 22 I think (could be wrong on his age but he was over 18) when he started going with HR who was 14. It is been said he was abusive and controlling but this was on HR's FB page, nothing has been printed in MSM about why they broke up. Still a 22 year old man dating a 14 year old girl send up signals in my book.

2. GW and CR1 were best friends (Per AW) who had a falling out after GW and JW tried to get HR to sign over her parental rights to little SW (per LM).

There has been many ex's who go into a rage and kill not only the ex spouse but the ex spouses entire family, sometimes not only going from house to house, but driving 50 miles to another town to kill the parents and cousin of the ex spouse.

So don't discount jealousy and rage as a motive for the R's case.

My take:

CR1's trailer--- CR1 was the target, GR was just there.

FR's trailer.....HHG (Who was JW's rival CG's sister)was the target, FR was just there.

DR's trailer....DR and HR was the target, CR2 was just there.

KR's trailer...KR was the target because they needed keys or feared he would drop in on CR1 and interrupt them before they were done (depending on which was you look at it.

The killers....JW and his dad BW and maybe even his brother, GW.
The planner/mastermind....AW.
The helper...Either JM or AM (who is a relative of AW) helped to alert them as to the time DR got home from work.

Sometimes the rage and anger and hatred is so overwhelming the killers don't care if they get the death penalty. Besides who ever thinks they are going to get caught by the "stupid" cops?

JMO

Glad you went into detail on it. Makes sense. I didn’t know about trail cams or a possible fight. I knew about custody. I’m from Alaska right where these people moved. Scary.

 

[Charliegizmo49]

BBM

Please don't discount pure rage as a motive. You had two circumstances that could have generated rage and hatred.

1. HR dumped JW, the father of SW, and refused to go back to him. Backdrop on this is JW was 22 I think (could be wrong on his age but he was over 18) when he started going with HR who was 14. It is been said he was abusive and controlling but this was on HR's FB page, nothing has been printed in MSM about why they broke up. Still a 22 year old man dating a 14 year old girl send up signals in my book.

2. GW and CR1 were best friends (Per AW) who had a falling out after GW and JW tried to get HR to sign over her parental rights to little SW (per LM).

There has been many ex's who go into a rage and kill not only the ex spouse but the ex spouses entire family, sometimes not only going from house to house, but driving 50 miles to another town to kill the parents and cousin of the ex spouse.

So don't discount jealousy and rage as a motive for the R's case.

My take:

CR1's trailer--- CR1 was the target, GR was just there.

FR's trailer.....HHG (Who was JW's rival CG's sister)was the target, FR was just there.

DR's trailer....DR and HR was the target, CR2 was just there.

KR's trailer...KR was the target because they needed keys or feared he would drop in on CR1 and interrupt them before they were done (depending on which was you look at it.

The killers....JW and his dad BW and maybe even his brother, GW.
The planner/mastermind....AW.
The helper...Either JM or AM (who is a relative of AW) helped to alert them as to the time DR got home from work.

Sometimes the rage and anger and hatred is so overwhelming the killers don't care if they get the death penalty. Besides who ever thinks they are going to get caught by the "stupid" cops?

JMO

I like the theory. In the end custody isn’t an issue. And the rage from fight has been avenged.

 

[Charliegizmo49]

Death penalty shouldn't be too difficult in these cases. Cruel, multiple murders of defenseless people sleeping in their homes. Evidence of premeditation.

Here's the full list of circumstances for aggravated murder justifying capital punishment in Ohio
Capital punishment in Ohio - Wikipedia



BBM

ETA: It's possible the killers were trying to avoid the DP by not killing the children. I think we've discussed this before. If anything was stolen from the crime scenes, robbery or burglary offenses would seem to apply.

To late. They qualified when they chose to kill 8 people. It’s on list.

 

[molly1255]

BBM

Please don't discount pure rage as a motive. You had two circumstances that could have generated rage and hatred.

1. HR dumped JW, the father of SW, and refused to go back to him. Backdrop on this is JW was 22 I think (could be wrong on his age but he was over 18) when he started going with HR who was 14. It is been said he was abusive and controlling but this was on HR's FB page, nothing has been printed in MSM about why they broke up. Still a 22 year old man dating a 14 year old girl send up signals in my book.

2. GW and CR1 were best friends (Per AW) who had a falling out after GW and JW tried to get HR to sign over her parental rights to little SW (per LM).

There has been many ex's who go into a rage and kill not only the ex spouse but the ex spouses entire family, sometimes not only going from house to house, but driving 50 miles to another town to kill the parents and cousin of the ex spouse.

So don't discount jealousy and rage as a motive for the R's case.

My take:

CR1's trailer--- CR1 was the target, GR was just there.

FR's trailer.....HHG (Who was JW's rival CG's sister)was the target, FR was just there.

DR's trailer....DR and HR was the target, CR2 was just there.

KR's trailer...KR was the target because they needed keys or feared he would drop in on CR1 and interrupt them before they were done (depending on which was you look at it.

The killers....JW and his dad BW and maybe even his brother, GW.
The planner/mastermind....AW.
The helper...Either JM or AM (who is a relative of AW) helped to alert them as to the time DR got home from work.

Sometimes the rage and anger and hatred is so overwhelming the killers don't care if they get the death penalty. Besides who ever thinks they are going to get caught by the "stupid" cops?

JMO

This is exactly what I think as well. I would add that I think the fact that HR had two boyfriends and another child after JW added fuel to the fire.