GUILTY Peru - Stephany Flores, 21, murdered in Lima hotel room, 30 May 2010 #24

[otto]

yes-- it is a theory. you think -aka theorize- based on how you interpret her words, emotions, actions in that video that she was there to make a deal. lets not get caught up in semantics. unless and until it's proven or beth admits this was her intent for visiting jvds, it's not fact, truth, etc.

<modsnip>.

I watched some of the linked video again and I think Beth tells Joran that she's spoken to prosecutors in Aruba, the US and Peru but that she can't do anything until he tells her what she wants to know ... she also repeats that it's not too late for Joran, that he can get his life back. Between the lines, she seems to be suggesting that she can help with his legal problems if he tells her where her daughter is. Throughout the program, they speculate that Joran can't answer this question because she's in the water.

 

[otto]

<modsnip> and I totally agree with you that this trial could have been avoided.

I rather doubt that Ms Holloway will be mentioned at Joran's trial for the murder in Peru ... other than perhaps Joran's defense claiming that the mention of Ms Holloway may be what caused Joran to become violent.

 

[vlpate]

I rather doubt that Ms Holloway will be mentioned at Joran's trial for the murder in Peru ... other than perhaps Joran's defense claiming that the mention of Ms Holloway may be what caused Joran to become violent.

If that's his defense he would surely have to explain who she is, right?

 

[justthinkin]

scroll down to watch 2 of her VIDEOS :giggle: http://shine.yahoo.com/love-sex/joran-van-der-sloots-1-fan-accused-killers-192800647.html

(interesting comment by poster named "Observer" orange ? avatar - though that was not who I'm speculating might have hired her)

The doctor needs to get back on her lithium quick.
She's obviously manic.

 

[Hazel]

I rather doubt that Ms Holloway will be mentioned at Joran's trial for the murder in Peru ... other than perhaps Joran's defense claiming that the mention of Ms Holloway may be what caused Joran to become violent.

Her name will be mentioned, as you said by the defense claiming Stephany was reading his laptop and questioned him about her. From what I've read, it appears that there was zero access to anything related to Natalee that night. He did check some news about NH, but not that night, it was two day before.

Perhaps the prosecutor will also mention her as background? I don't know if that would be admissible though.

But other than that, the trial will be all about Stephany, whether people like it or not.

Not sure if the 'sting operation' could be relevant, perhaps explaining how and where he obtained the money for his trip to Lima, via Colombia? I really don't know.

I wonder how did he lose the $25K he got, because he was broke and from a video where S's parents are interviewed, they say there is proof of a third person who introduced her to him....they didn't want to be more specific, but said him meeting her was not random, apparently it was because she had money, which he needed urgently.

 

[Hazel]

Are you saying Beth may have misled Joran? How dare her!

I am sorry vlpate, cannot follow what you are asking?

Is that in response to my post you are quoting?

At no moment I said anything about misleading anybody ... what is going on?

 

[redheadedgal]

I watched some of the linked video again and I think Beth tells Joran that she's spoken to prosecutors in Aruba... Between the lines she seems to be suggesting that she can help with his legal problems if he tells her where her daughter is.

thanks for the recap otto... but maybe she lied to see if he'd talk? IDK. he's lied and manipulated her for years now. i wouldn't blame her at all...

100% hard proof she made a deal with the prosecutor would be required for me to believe this occurred. but whether it did or didn't occur, doesn't change the facts of either case. jvds will be imprisoned for a long long time, and both natalee and stephany will get justice.

 

[Kamille]

Personally I think BH had resorted to outright lying in that visit with JVDS in Peru. Why not? What did she have to lose? He's been lying to her and everyone else for years so why not make him think she could save his life if he would just trust her and give her some closure about what happened to her daughter. It was obviously a useless attempt as JVDS is not so easily fooled and especially after finding out she'd involved the FBI in his little extortion game.

MOO

 

[vlpate]

I am sorry vlpate, cannot follow what you are asking?

Is that in response to my post you are quoting?

At no moment I said anything about misleading anybody ... what is going on?

What Red and Kamille said.

 

[Kimster]

Get back on track in here. Now.

 

[MagnoliaMom]

Hazel this upcoming trial is about justice for Stephany and the Flores family. I so hope they get it. They deserve it. And JVS deserves to be held accountable for murdering her. It would be healing for us all to see him be held accountable. It is sure time for the karma bus to give him a ride.

IMO there will never be any true justice for NH. The time for that has long passed. If they were to find her bones today, that would be the closest to justice her mother could get. It would at least give her some closure and a chance to put her baby to rest properly.

I can't speak for BH about what she what saying to JVS in the prison but I can tell you I went to see BH speak at our university and I saw a strong, outspoken woman. She was positive and admirable. She spoke to our students just before they would be going on spring break in hopes that they would be more aware and stay safe. IMO the wikepedia article does not do justice to BH. It seems to cast her rather negatively. I did follow the NH story from the very beginning and it in fact is what brought me to this website. I cried with her from day one and thought she was so brave and honest in her feelings. IMO if BH were powerful enough to control justice, she wouldn't have been in that prison pleading for information. She is just a mother who wants her baby returned. I pray she gets that someday but I would be stunned if it came through JVS.

 

[Hazel]

Hazel this upcoming trial is about justice for Stephany and the Flores family. I so hope they get it. They deserve it. And JVS deserves to be held accountable for murdering her. It would be healing for us all to see him be held accountable. It is sure time for the karma bus to give him a ride. ABSOLUTELY MagnoliaMom, you are so right about this!!

IMO there will never be any true justice for NH. The time for that has long passed. If they were to find her bones today, that would be the closest to justice her mother could get. It would at least give her some closure and a chance to put her baby to rest properly. I feel for her, cannot begin to imagine how horrible these past 5 years must have been, losing her daughter like that is the worst thing that can happen to a mother, but on top of that not knowing what happened or not even where she is, is the most unbearable thing. I pray one day she could have some closure if only getting her back home.


I can't speak for BH about what she what saying to JVS in the prison but I can tell you I went to see BH speak at our university and I saw a strong, outspoken woman. She was positive and admirable. She spoke to our students just before they would be going on spring break in hopes that they would be more aware and stay safe. IMO the wikepedia article does not do justice to BH. It seems to cast her rather negatively.
I had taken the Wikipedia article as gospel, thought that would be the one article closest to the truth, like all other Wikipedia articles are. You are saying it is not accurate? I've seen so many versions of events, and people's interpretations, but I do like to form my own opinion....have been watching a few videos as well, and perhaps it has been an information overload, because I had never seen all that "activity" in other missing person's cases, and right now am thinking that perhaps all that contributed to the perp becoming such a celebrity, complicating things further.
Many times is a good idea to have a fresh pair of eyes 'study' a case, and see things that others who have been too close to the case, cannot see.

I did follow the NH story from the very beginning and it in fact is what brought me to this website. I cried with her from day one and thought she was so brave and honest in her feelings. IMO if BH were powerful enough to control justice, she wouldn't have been in that prison pleading for information. She is just a mother who wants her baby returned. I pray she gets that someday but I would be stunned if it came through JVS.
So very sad, she's tried to get it out of J for 5 long years, somehow the 'tactic' is not working, maybe the best approach is to just sit back and do nothing at all. In one of the videos I watched today, Stephany's brother is telling her that he has a lot of trust in the Peruvian justice system, that there is a lot of evidence, and tried to give her reassurance that it wont be a repeat of what happened in Aruba.
Seems a few hours later she goes to visit J at CastroCastro...I still feel my 'question' is a very valid question, and from watching yet a more complete version, I now saw that the Dutch person that was there, asked her many of the questions I had, lol, so I know it is not just me.

my answers contained in post, in purple

 

[Salem]

Get back on track in here. Now.

What Kimster said and stop bickering. BH can be discussed as far as her taped visits to JVDS go, otherwise NH is off the table. We established those rules a long time back, so let's keep them in mind.

Salem

 

[redheadedgal]

IMO the wikepedia article does not do justice to BH. It seems to cast her rather negatively.

thank you, Magnolia.

i just read the wiki article... and about the meeting in prison i see two errors:

1) it reports that BH was "snuck" into the prison which was not the case as the prison warden did agree to her visit... and he actually was subsequently suspended over it. seems like maybe he initially pretended to not know she was being allowed in...

2) it reports that jvds' lawyer said he was "taken by force" to the meeting. again, not true. and while i don't know if jvds was "threatened with solitary" as the article linked below states (do defense lawyers always tell the truth?), he could have refused. if he was threatened to appear before BH and refused, i'm sure his lawyer could have and would have handled any backlash, punishment, etc thru legal and public relations means.


http://www.cbs42.com/content/localn...suspended-over-tv/oQzO1vI-JUunoDkG0uyfBw.cspx

 

[vlpate]

What Kimster said and stop bickering. BH can be discussed as far as her taped visits to JVDS go, otherwise NH is off the table. We established those rules a long time back, so let's keep them in mind.

Salem

Hi Salem, would you please point me to the rules in reference to this thread? I'm reading the new book about Joran and it intertwines both cases, so I came here to discuss - the thread title seems general so others may need to see it as well....especially with the trial about to start! I don't see a thread for the book so I will start one (after work), unless I've missed it. TIA!

FYI to members - There's also a thread just about BH's visit with JVDS at the Peru prison here:
http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?t=114558&highlight=joran+vander+sloot

Have a great day

 

[vlpate]

thank you, Magnolia.

i just read the wiki article... and about the meeting in prison i see two errors:

1) it reports that BH was "snuck" into the prison which was not the case as the prison warden did agree to her visit... and he actually was subsequently suspended over it. seems like maybe he initially pretended to not know she was being allowed in...

2) it reports that jvds' lawyer said he was "taken by force" to the meeting. again, not true. and while i don't know if jvds was "threatened with solitary" as the article linked below states (do defense lawyers always tell the truth?), he could have refused. if he was threatened to appear before BH and refused, i'm sure his lawyer could have and would have handled any backlash, punishment, etc thru legal and public relations means.


http://www.cbs42.com/content/localn...suspended-over-tv/oQzO1vI-JUunoDkG0uyfBw.cspx

Wikipedia is a notoriously bad source for information. Anyone can write the material and human error is rampant. Good post red.

 

[suzihawk]

Hi Salem, would you please point me to the rules in reference to this thread? I'm reading the new book about Joran and it intertwines both cases, so I came here to discuss - the thread title seems general so others may need to see it as well....especially with the trial about to start! I don't see a thread for the book so I will start one (after work), unless I've missed it. TIA!

FYI to members - There's also a thread just about BH's visit with JVDS at the Peru prison here:
http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?t=114558&highlight=joran+vander+sloot

Have a great day

Hi vlpate... would you mind sharing what book you're reading?

 

[otto]

Her name will be mentioned, as you said by the defense claiming Stephany was reading his laptop and questioned him about her. From what I've read, it appears that there was zero access to anything related to Natalee that night. He did check some news about NH, but not that night, it was two day before.

Perhaps the prosecutor will also mention her as background? I don't know if that would be admissible though.

But other than that, the trial will be all about Stephany, whether people like it or not.

Not sure if the 'sting operation' could be relevant, perhaps explaining how and where he obtained the money for his trip to Lima, via Colombia? I really don't know.

I wonder how did he lose the $25K he got, because he was broke and from a video where S's parents are interviewed, they say there is proof of a third person who introduced her to him....they didn't want to be more specific, but said him meeting her was not random, apparently it was because she had money, which he needed urgently.

There's little doubt that Joran murdered Stefanie, but he wants to omit any possibility that robbery was the motive. The prosecution may introduce the point that Joran gambled a lot of money and needed more, but I don't think it will help Ms Holloway if it comes out that Beth gave him $25k; that without that money Joran would never have been in Peru. If the $25k comes out, it may also be revealed that Joran's family had arranged for him to go to the Netherlands for mental health treatment on the same day he fled to Peru ... which opens another can of worms: that of Beth's objectives of finding her daughter versus Anita's objectives of having experts sort out Joran. If Joran can demonstrate that he was pushed to the edge of a mental breakdown because of anything related to Ms Holloway's family (like the visit in prison), he may be able to establish that the murder in Peru was a result of extreme mental stress.

 

[otto]

thanks for the recap otto... but maybe she lied to see if he'd talk? IDK. he's lied and manipulated her for years now. i wouldn't blame her at all...

100% hard proof she made a deal with the prosecutor would be required for me to believe this occurred. but whether it did or didn't occur, doesn't change the facts of either case. jvds will be imprisoned for a long long time, and both natalee and stephany will get justice.

It's hard to say whether that will come into play. Joran's defense may argue that Beth was officially admitted to the prison, that she claimed that she had spoken with authorities and that she claimed that Joran could have his life back - but first he had to reveal Natalie's whereabouts. Joran's response was to contact Aruban authorities and claim that he would reveal her whereabouts if they brought him back to Aruba. Of course, the Arubans knew better than to expect Joran to tell the truth. Still, it may be argued that she represented herself as someone in authority and that Joran had no choice but to believe that she had authority since prison officials allowed her to talk with him.

I think that Beth's visit may be presented as another example that he was hounded for five years until he went crazy. Do we know how long the trial is scheduled to last?

 

[annalia]

There's little doubt that Joran murdered Stefanie, but he wants to omit any possibility that robbery was the motive. The prosecution may introduce the point that Joran gambled a lot of money and needed more, but I don't think it will help Ms Holloway if it comes out that Beth gave him $25k; that without that money Joran would never have been in Peru. If the $25k comes out, it may also be revealed that Joran's family had arranged for him to go to the Netherlands for mental health treatment on the same day he fled to Peru ... which opens another can of worms: that of Beth's objectives of finding her daughter versus Anita's objectives of having experts sort out Joran. If Joran can demonstrate that he was pushed to the edge of a mental breakdown because of anything related to Ms Holloway's family (like the visit in prison), he may be able to establish that the murder in Peru was a result of extreme mental stress.

My bolding

This is nonsense. I have to question the intent behind continuing to misrepresent the facts.

Is the intent here to say that BH is the one that is responsible for JVDS going to Peru and murdering SF? Is the intent here to say that BH is responsible for whatever issue JVDS might have been going through?

Is the intent here to say that BH should have been more comncerned about the murderer of her child than this murderer extorting her?

ADVS claiming afterwards that they wanted JVDS to go to an institution was for his addictions, he refused to go, he was an adult, is that also the fault of BH? There is nothing to say that he wouldn't have found another way to still go to Peru aside from extorting his first victim's family.

I have more faith in Peru's justice system that they would never fall for any obvious attempt by the defense to blame his first victim when the evidence points to the contrary.

If JVDS murdered NH why wouldn't the questions be why did it take so long for AVDS to get her son help, why did they continually cover his issues which only escalated over the years instead of seeking help for him years ago.

Misrepresenting facts to blame his victims is outrageous to me and I need to step away now before I get timedout. :furious: