Phone Calls and Phone Records

[BigCityAccountant]

Thank you Missy. Where DID those numbers come from? Anyone? Why would KRATZ submit a spreadsheet and NOT the actual bill??

And hello Mystic! Good to see you chime in again:wave:

2 reasons come to mind:
1. He didn't want anyone to see the other numbers on there. BUT--the defense would be privy, so why hide it? Unless, if the defense brought it up the could object due to privacy reasons???
2. There was info (cell phone towers) that could put doubt in a jury's mind. Like the 21102 after the 21923 number. That would have to be explained or reasonable doubt would be established.

 

[missy1974]

Hey Gang

But we have the bill (TH's), it was submitted as an exhibit, and it doesn't have the incoming calls with the phone numbers. So I still don't know where they got it from LOL I understand that it's in the CASO report, but where did it come from? the printout from her 'friends'? well that's just silly that it's not on the bill then, isn't it? And if it was much more detailed, it would only make sense to submit that IMO.

Something just doesn't seem right about it all. And then Wiegert saying it was AutoTrader, Dedering not being able to figure out the number and Dedering has some pretty detailed reports in there.

 

[missy1974]

http://www.stevenaverycase.org/wp-content/uploads/2016/04/CASO-Investigative-Report.pdf#page=204

This guy left a message on her VM the morning of Nov 2nd.

He stated that on Wednesday morning, Lll02l05,he called TERESA's cell phone and left a voice
mail. He stated her phone rang a couple of times before going to voice mail and that caused him
to assume the cell phone was still active at that time.

I thought if the phone was off or dead it would just go straight to VM? I know my families cell phones do now, but I'm not sure about 2005 and it could be the network we are on.

Also... must be another typo *sigh* the phone number is wrong in the report compared to the VM printout. lol VM shows 920-360-****, report has 920-367-****

This call, at 7:39am was listened too.... along with the 8:05am call that same day, this is what Buting was trying to ask about I think. The calls afterwards, were not listened too, they show as "new messages".



http://www.stevenaverycase.org/wp-c...ial-Exhibit-372-Halbach-Voicemail-Records.pdf

 

[BigCityAccountant]

Hi Peeps! I do have some pictures on my tablet which I want to post so you all can see what the landscape is like "Up North". In any event, I recently traveled through the Manitowoc area again and took a few pictures with my New Phone. Of course, I just had to have that open signal app running...LOL

So, here goes. I thought this might be interesting to possibly sleuth. If you remember way way way back when...there are 3 zones of a cell tower. (of course, I have to inject most cell phones are LTE now) anyway, at the intersection of Route 151 and 43, there is a Verizon Cell with an ID of 53598211 and a LAC 53542. What caught my eye was the 211. I'm thinking the LCell on TH's bill refers to the LAC.

Probably not the correct place to post this, but here goes. Was out visiting friends near the Crivitz property (actually just south of there) so I thought I would post some pictures of the landscape surrounding there.

 

[BigCityAccountant]

So more pic's but near Manitowoc.

 

[BigCityAccountant]

Hi all!!!

Here is my latest theory on the cell phone's. I think I mentioned that I thought the 1051113 could be the 211 cell tower. If you read the doc's I posted before~~you will know that cell companies sometimes substitute 4,5,and 6 for the sectors. I believe that is what was done with the 51113, making it 21113. With that being said~~most tower average about 30 miles (I posted that earlier too).

Everyone here believes TH started out at her house and that the 211 had to be near her house. I don't and here is why. We know her brother was attending Univ. of GB. Well, Univ. of GB has a satellite campus in Manitowoc. I believe that is where TH started out that fateful day. Each section is 120 degrees, so I took a Google Earth map with the towers and placed a 30 mile radius around Univ. GB Manitowoc campus. Section 2 would include that campus. (21112) When TH was on her way to SS at 12:51pm she sad she would be there by 1:30pm~~it is a 30 minute trip to New Holstein from Univ GB Manitowoc. That gives her 40 minutes to get there from the time she makes the call. Feasible, right. Well, if she was traveling down Calumet Dr. (151) when she received that call at 1:52pm~~she would have been in 21103 or the third sector. That lines up! But, that's not all that lines up~~GZ's house is at the very tip of the 21101, which coincidentally within the 12 miles that KZ had mentioned. SA's house would be out of the 211 cell tower.

So, I'm starting to believe that TH went to SS, then traveled directly to SA's house and then GZ's house. But, I'm not convinced GZ had anything to do with it. I have my eye on someone who apparently lived on 147 at the time and believe had motive to set GZ up. By the way, the name has not been mentioned elsewhere.

 

[dexter75]

Hi all!!!

Here is my latest theory on the cell phone's. I think I mentioned that I thought the 1051113 could be the 211 cell tower. If you read the doc's I posted before~~you will know that cell companies sometimes substitute 4,5,and 6 for the sectors. I believe that is what was done with the 51113, making it 21113. With that being said~~most tower average about 30 miles (I posted that earlier too).

Everyone here believes TH started out at her house and that the 211 had to be near her house. I don't and here is why. We know her brother was attending Univ. of GB. Well, Univ. of GB has a satellite campus in Manitowoc. I believe that is where TH started out that fateful day. Each section is 120 degrees, so I took a Google Earth map with the towers and placed a 30 mile radius around Univ. GB Manitowoc campus. Section 2 would include that campus. (21112) When TH was on her way to SS at 12:51pm she sad she would be there by 1:30pm~~it is a 30 minute trip to New Holstein from Univ GB Manitowoc. That gives her 40 minutes to get there from the time she makes the call. Feasible, right. Well, if she was traveling down Calumet Dr. (151) when she received that call at 1:52pm~~she would have been in 21103 or the third sector. That lines up! But, that's not all that lines up~~GZ's house is at the very tip of the 21101, which coincidentally within the 12 miles that KZ had mentioned. SA's house would be out of the 211 cell tower.

So, I'm starting to believe that TH went to SS, then traveled directly to SA's house and then GZ's house. But, I'm not convinced GZ had anything to do with it. I have my eye on someone who apparently lived on 147 at the time and believe had motive to set GZ up. By the way, the name has not been mentioned elsewhere.

Starting to lean a little this way, BCA, maybe?
😚

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G935A using Tapatalk

 

[IDK]

BCA, that is very impressive research, and thanks for sharing it here.

 

[MysticJynx]

So I came across something interesting the other day. Most of my posting on this case happens on Facebook these days. But I thought this was worthy of sharing. I made a video of the part of the call I am referring to. The Wiegert and Remiker call that was 6 mins. He mentions the 2:24 call and that is seemed to have been answered. Neither Wiegert or Dedering mention this call in there reports. Why do you think they left that call off their reports?
https://youtu.be/qnE8ZFE8ww8

 

[zerbert]

So... anyone compiling RH's phone records into a list with names of who was on the other end? I'm wayyyy too lazy right now to do it. Too much BBQ tonight. :eat::cow:

 

[missy1974]

http://www.pcworld.com/article/114640/article.html

going to leave this here so I don't lose it LOL

I have been hunting down those call type D /ID unknown. I came across this PTT (push to talk) thing last night, read a ton about it and am still not sure. It would explain why there were so many, it was commonly used by emergency services (LE knew how to use it), it worked like a walkie talkie, and from what I read, if the user was using it, all incoming calls would have gone directly to VM or get an unavailable message. I couldn't figure out why there were no other calls during that time.

Anyway, it's interesting for sure. These were not his only calls that have the D, but I think I may have only found 1 or 2 more for that month.


ETA: duhhhh he had just finished nursing school too... I wonder if it was something they learned in school? what to do in the event of a crisis and the networks were congested.

 

[BigCityAccountant]

http://www.pcworld.com/article/114640/article.html

going to leave this here so I don't lose it LOL

I have been hunting down those call type D /ID unknown. I came across this PTT (push to talk) thing last night, read a ton about it and am still not sure. It would explain why there were so many, it was commonly used by emergency services (LE knew how to use it), it worked like a walkie talkie, and from what I read, if the user was using it, all incoming calls would have gone directly to VM or get an unavailable message. I couldn't figure out why there were no other calls during that time.

Anyway, it's interesting for sure. These were not his only calls that have the D, but I think I may have only found 1 or 2 more for that month.


ETA: duhhhh he had just finished nursing school too... I wonder if it was something they learned in school? what to do in the event of a crisis and the networks were congested.

Nextel was the first with the push to talk. I don't think Alltel had PTT at that time. Nextel developed the technology and had it patented. I could be wrong but I don't think it was until about 2007 that the other carriers could start using it. It was very common for construction companies to have PTT and Nextel.

 

[missy1974]

Nextel was the first with the push to talk. I don't think Alltel had PTT at that time. Nextel developed the technology and had it patented. I could be wrong but I don't think it was until about 2007 that the other carriers could start using it. It was very common for construction companies to have PTT and Nextel.

Good morning sunshine!

Actually Alltel did have it then, I should have made that clear since the article I posted only looked at 3 companies, it was just the link I still had opened and I put it in here before I closed it LOL I stumbled upon it when searching to find what "direct call" meant. I think the only limitation at the time was that if you were using PTT, the users had to be with the same company. So someone with Cingular for example couldn't talk to someone on Alltel, and vise versa. These PTT calls were usually short in duration, and if there was silence for 6 seconds (IIRC) it would drop the call. It's a good explanation for why there were so many. All of these PTT calls would show up on a bill as UNKNOWN ID.

I'm really thinking that someone is talking. RH? someone in LE? SB? someone who knew those calls were from LE.

ETA: I have to work today, but I will look for more info tonight

 

[Madeleine74]

IDK provided a link to a more complete list of all the outgoing calls SA made on 10/31/15

http://stevenaverycase.com/steven-avery-phone-call-records/#sthash.fEesxMD1.dpbs

There were a total of 16 calls SA made that day (according to this call log).

Exactly 2 calls out of 16 were prefixed with *67 before dialing.

Those 2 calls were to TH that afternoon.

 

[BigCityAccountant]

Good morning sunshine!

Actually Alltel did have it then, I should have made that clear since the article I posted only looked at 3 companies, it was just the link I still had opened and I put it in here before I closed it LOL I stumbled upon it when searching to find what "direct call" meant. I think the only limitation at the time was that if you were using PTT, the users had to be with the same company. So someone with Cingular for example couldn't talk to someone on Alltel, and vise versa. These PTT calls were usually short in duration, and if there was silence for 6 seconds (IIRC) it would drop the call. It's a good explanation for why there were so many. All of these PTT calls would show up on a bill as UNKNOWN ID.

I'm really thinking that someone is talking. RH? someone in LE? SB? someone who knew those calls were from LE.

ETA: I have to work today, but I will look for more info tonight

Good morning to you too sunshine!! (by the way, my grandma always said that saying )

Well then thanks!! I wasn't aware that Alltel offered that service back then~~as I said, I thought it was only Nextel at that time, but of course I could be mistaken~~and as you noted I am. In any event, I do think someone is talking, but I'm not sure who it is just yet. I had thought it might be RH, but it could also be JR. The reason I think it could be JR, is because he has nothing to lose now that his company is b/k. It seems to me, the business(es) have been around for awhile and if it didn't b/k him personally, he probably isn't living in Manitowoc County anyway (so no way to get back at him) I had read the dad's obit, and it seems he was involved with organizations in various states. I would imagine they would have had property in other states too and when the companies went b/k~~they had property in trusts and such that couldn't be touched by the b/k. With that city engineer threatening him that if he didn't drop his lawsuit "it could be devastating to all R companies and to have his attorney withdraw the legal claim" I think he could feel like he had been run out of town. Thus, an attitude of I'll help them now to get back at them for putting me out of business.

 

[missy1974]

IDK provided a link to a more complete list of all the outgoing calls SA made on 10/31/15

http://stevenaverycase.com/steven-avery-phone-call-records/#sthash.fEesxMD1.dpbs

There were a total of 16 calls SA made that day (according to this call log).

Exactly 2 calls out of 16 were prefixed with *67 before dialing.

Those 2 calls were to TH that afternoon.

Here is the trial exhibit 359 that shows his actual cell phone log (it's a mess and not easy to read).

http://www.stevenaverycase.org/wp-c...rial-Exhibit-359-Avery-Call-Log-2005Oct31.pdf

the link you posted, there are some unverified numbers on there and there is a disclaimer at the top that states: In the "Party Called" column, names followed by three * symbols were obtained by entering the full phone number into a reverse phone search. Results may be inaccurate, as the owner of the phone may have changed since 2005. -

so 1 (maybe 2 if the construction one is wrong too) of those calls out of the 16 (other than the calls to TH) seem to be a person, not a business, gov't agency, or family. And those 2 numbers could be people he knows and we just don't know he knows them.

IMO Not unreasonable to think that he used *67 for numbers he was either unsure of who was at the other end, or for not personal business/family/friends calls.

Again, I don't understand why he would call AutoTrader in the morning without *67 if he had a plan in motion.

 

[missy1974]

I was looking at phone records and thinking about VM's again LOL Zellner thinks 11 messages were deleted before early morning of Nov 2nd. The phone didn't ping off a tower, so if someone deleted them it would have had to have been from another phone, right? I can't find any way that a cell could get to voicemail any other way then to call it from the cell phone (creating a record), or from another phone.

Right now, I'm also thinking that TH was leaving Avery's when Dawn called at 2:27 (pinging off the tower by SA's), she was talking and driving ... and 15 minutes later when she got another call she was pinging off the Whitelaw Tower.

I was thinking back, and in 2005, were there laws in place with using cell phones and driving? I am not sure. It seems to me that this is right around the time that it was becoming an issue (maybe because of texting?)

 

[missy1974]

Hey slackers (BCA and zerbert, this means you LOL)

BCA, I need you to have a look to see if I'm looking at it wrong LOL

On November 1st, RH calls her at 6:42 pm. This call shows on her phone records as 6:42 too. The call previous to that was at 4:59pm and shows on her VM records. There are no calls between this 5pm call and when RH calls her, so this VM had to fill her VM to the max. He calls at 6:42pm and he said her VM was full. If it doesn't go through to voicemail, how does it register on her phone bill? And could he have accessed her voicemail when he called her at that time? all he had to do was hit the # key and put in her password while the message was playing.

The next VM was left at 7:12am on the 2nd.

I'm trying to figure out what Zellner saw on his phone record that shows that he deleted the emails LOL

http://www.stevenaverycase.org/wp-c...on-for-Post-Conviction-Scientific-Testing.pdf page 58 RH's phone records.
http://www.stevenaverycase.org/wp-c...Trial-Exhibit-361-Halbach-Cingular-Report.pdf TH's phone records
http://www.stevenaverycase.org/wp-c...ial-Exhibit-372-Halbach-Voicemail-Records.pdf Voicemail records

 

[BigCityAccountant]

Hey slackers (BCA and zerbert, this means you LOL)

BCA, I need you to have a look to see if I'm looking at it wrong LOL

On November 1st, RH calls her at 6:42 pm. This call shows on her phone records as 6:42 too. The call previous to that was at 4:59pm and shows on her VM records. There are no calls between this 5pm call and when RH calls her, so this VM had to fill her VM to the max. He calls at 6:42pm and he said her VM was full. If it doesn't go through to voicemail, how does it register on her phone bill? And could he have accessed her voicemail when he called her at that time? all he had to do was hit the # key and put in her password while the message was playing.

The next VM was left at 7:12am on the 2nd.

I'm trying to figure out what Zellner saw on his phone record that shows that he deleted the emails LOL

http://www.stevenaverycase.org/wp-c...on-for-Post-Conviction-Scientific-Testing.pdf page 58 RH's phone records.
http://www.stevenaverycase.org/wp-c...Trial-Exhibit-361-Halbach-Cingular-Report.pdf TH's phone records
http://www.stevenaverycase.org/wp-c...ial-Exhibit-372-Halbach-Voicemail-Records.pdf Voicemail records

OH MY GOSH!!! Yes, I'm slacking~~haven't looked at that yet. It's on my things to do list. That work thing keeps getting in the way. Just got finished now...have to make the family some dinner and will look tonight!

 

[BigCityAccountant]

I was looking at phone records and thinking about VM's again LOL Zellner thinks 11 messages were deleted before early morning of Nov 2nd. The phone didn't ping off a tower, so if someone deleted them it would have had to have been from another phone, right? I can't find any way that a cell could get to voicemail any other way then to call it from the cell phone (creating a record), or from another phone.

Right now, I'm also thinking that TH was leaving Avery's when Dawn called at 2:27 (pinging off the tower by SA's), she was talking and driving ... and 15 minutes later when she got another call she was pinging off the Whitelaw Tower.

I was thinking back, and in 2005, were there laws in place with using cell phones and driving? I am not sure. It seems to me that this is right around the time that it was becoming an issue (maybe because of texting?)

No there were no law in place back then~~I should know~~I was on my cell constantly while I was driving thru there.

I wonder if you removed the sim card and placed it into another phone if it would register someone calling her voicemail?