Retrial for Sentencing of Jodi Arias - Day 17

[ILikeToBendPages]

:hilarious: "Goodtime Gal" !

Or, in other words, she was a . . . I like it here too much so I better :silenced:

:seeya:

She said she was a *advertiser censored*, but she wasn't violent. That's not name calling it just the fact stated by Jodi

 

[MeeBee]

IMO, if the DT had taken this tack, sans villianizing of Travis, it would have been pretty effective. They could have pointed to the dysfunction of the relationship and point out how warped Jodi's mind was and how she couldn't deal with rationally. Juries usually have some mercy on those disturbed individuals who kill because of unrequited love, even if there's some level of premeditation involved.

The defense wants to say Jodi was writing these things because of how terribly Travis treated her. But it's obvious she was feeling these things whenever things weren't going well, or as well as she'd hoped (weren't going her way), with Travis. That's how borderlines work. They exacerbate others' actions, they perceive small things as slights or betrayals. Not putting her first on his MySpace friends sent her crying to the Hughes'. Travis not calling her back for two hours made her suicidal.

I just think if they'd have avoided making Travis the bad guy and Jodi the saint and stuck with a slimmer narrative they'd have been more successful. But there goes Jodi, shooting herself in the foot again.

I think if I were on this jury and all those lies about Travis hadn't come out I might have been able to spare her life. But when the pedophile stuff comes out, and the physical abuse (that's noticeably absent this time around) and just making every little thing seem like his fault, that speaks to a lack of remorse. She can say she's remorseful all she wants, but she obviously isn't. And there goes her mitigating factor. Remorse is an important thing to people.

 

[Kamille]

What the heck w this journal strategy? It makes JA sound like a possessive freak.


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I think it's supposed to sound like a person with severe depression and mental illness just prior to killing the reason for her severe depression and mental illness.

I understand there is one psychologist on the panel? If they make it into deliberations, I think they will be the one to help the others determine if any of this has any credibility as a mitigating factor. But just one? Wouldn't she need more than one to outweigh the cruelty? 3 months spent on one mitigating factor?

Seriously. They are retrying the case to make this jury believe that she never should have even received a first degree verdict.

MOO

 

[Becky Sharp]

IMO, if the DT had taken this tack, sans villianizing of Travis, it would have been pretty effective. They could have pointed to the dysfunction of the relationship and point out how warped Jodi's mind was and how she couldn't deal with rationally. Juries usually have some mercy on those who kill because of unrequited love, even if there's some level of premeditation involved.

The defense wants to say Jodi was writing these things because of how terribly Travis treated her. But it's obvious she was feeling these things whenever things weren't going well, or as well as she'd hoped (weren't going her way), with Travis. That's how borderlines work. They exacerbate others' actions, they perceive small things as slights or betrayals. Not putting her first on his MySpace friends sent her crying to the Hughes'. Travis not calling her back for two hours made her suicidal.

I just think if they'd have avoided making Travis the bad guy and Jodi the saint and stuck with a slimmer narrative they'd have been more successful. But there goes Jodi, shooting herself in the foot again.

I think if I were on this jury and all those lies about Travis hadn't come out I might have been able to spare her life. But when the pedophile stuff comes out, and the physical abuse (that's noticeably absent this time around) and just making every little thing seem like his fault, that speaks to a lack of remorse. She can say she's remorseful all she wants, but she obviously isn't. And there goes her mitigating factor. Remorse is an important thing to people.

Sure is. But that's her problem--she doesn't really understand people.

 

[katydid23]

What the heck w this journal strategy? It makes JA sound like a possessive freak.


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Their strategy seems to be to try and make Travis look like a controlling, abusive monster. But then they point to kid of normal things that happen to everyone.' You have sex with a guy and he does not call for a couple of days.' DUH. That's the way of the world. Most girls figure out not to give it away after that.

You have a fight, then make up by having sex. Double DUH. Since when is that abusive? That is pretty normal relationship stuff. You are not mad at each other anymore and you want to be intimate to reestablish your relationship. I don't see that as controlling if both are on board. And Jodi was fully on board.

At some point he wanted her to date other people. HELLO. That is a very common way to try and get rid of your ex. You just hope and pray they meet a new victim. I don't see that as abusive on his part, just optimistic and unrealistic.

The same with the 'initiated sex while she was asleep' ---trying to make that out as some kind of rape is ridiculous. If she had never been his willing sex partner, then of course it would be abusive. But most people appreciate being approached in that way by their loved one. I think the jurors will feel the same way.

When this Geff guy keeps trying to reiterate how 'abusive' Travis was, and then points to him 'pulling on her wrist once' and pushing her another time, they will shrug. We ALL know what true abuse looks like. We all know what it is really like when someone is TRAPPED in a violent, abusive relationship. And this was not it.

 

[Frigga]

I think in a twisted way we are getting as close to the truth as we may ever get when it comes to the murderer. I think there has been pretty solid evidence presented (in both the trial and here) that JAA is personality disordered (BPD) with anti social tendencies along with hints of narcissism. The fact that several people in her inner circle thought she was Bipolar seems close to accurate in light of the fact that Bipolar and BPD can often be misdiagnosed- one for the other- as they have similarities that may overlap (thanks BritsKate).

The fact that she never got help for it seems to go along with her diagnosis, as well, but as we have wonderful posters who have been diagnosed BPD... that doesn't explain everything, especially the murder. Hence the sociopathy/psychopathy aspect.

She did NOT want the diagnosis in the first trial- not even the hint of it- which leads me to believe this is very close to the truth. Also, why the people who knew or cared about her were unable to get her to seek help.

My sister was diagnosed BPD and abruptly halted therapy and she is not a psychopath.

What really could have been done?

Even if Travis had sought a restraining order- we know how that goes- it never really stops anything and almost seems to escalate the violent behavior of perpetrators.

Sadly, I think she would have killed him- no matter what- and no one could have put her away before the fact.

It seems almost inevitable watching her all consuming obsession with Travis and anyone that had anything to do with him- too.

What was so different about Travis?

I think his personality attracted and repelled her all at the same time.

Her empty, false sense of self was magnified next to him- to the highest power imaginable. His joy for life, his magnetism, his determination and drive... his generosity and his humor. I really believe someone like Jodi is not able to find genuine humor- gut wrenching, belly laughing, wet your pants kind of humor- in anything.

Why would someone else's bright light extinguish anothers?

It wouldn't.

It would only make evident the fact that the other had no light within- to begin with.

Why the hell didn't she just kill her own, damn, sorry self? Because she HATED Travis- not because he didn't want her it was because having known him she came to the recognition that she was an empty, dark, black hole of a soul and he had figured it out too. There would be no lingering friendship for her, no well wishes for her future, no future manipulations by her. He was going to tell her secret to everyone- her family included- remember?

To all who would have ears to listen. The moment JAA knew that, her plan went in to action. It was inevitable. She had to snuff that life force out- the one she would never have herself. She didn't want to have Travis, she wanted to BE Travis.

I don't even think Travis would have followed through with his threats, I think he would have moved on and tried to forget her. I have no doubt that he would have been a more cautious person and maybe not so all forgiving.

Who knows what his life may have been. Sadly, I believe the day he crossed paths with her was the day the time started ticking down on the clock of his life.

She will always be the worst thing that ever happened to him... to many more people now, as well.

I look at the picture of her as a darling toddler with pigtails and wonder how does someone like her even come into being?

 

[ILikeToBendPages]

William Pitts @william_pitts · 2m 2 minutes ago
Geffner talking about #JodiArias saying #TravisAlexander had sex with her while she was asleep.

and her first thought was ut oh

 

[Caylee Advocate]

This man appears to have rather distinctive hands. The lower knuckles and nails look suspiciously like the "penis hands" to me.

Anyone else think so?

Yepper's, and all while rockin' those white socks with sandals. In the words of JM, "WHO DOES THAT"? He looks creepy to me.

 

[pinkandgreenmom]

What the heck w this journal strategy? It makes JA sound like a possessive freak.


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I am a bit behind but wanted to whole heartedly agree with this. That whole defense team is just so tone deaf.

 

[Hatfield]

Carolyn Sung ‏@CarolynSungCNN · 1m1 minute ago
Judge SS announced court is in session until 5:15pm MT today and we're starting at 9am tom with 1hr lunch. #jodiarias

Seriously LMAO at this. So this is what a determined JSS looks like. Lets start at 9AM (whats wrong with 8) and lets only have 1 hour lunch (what wrong with 30 or 45 minute brown bag) and lets go a whole 15 minutes longer than 5PM.

Its all your fault Nurmi. LOL

 

[ILikeToBendPages]

I think it's supposed to sound like a person with severe depression and mental illness just prior to killing the reason for her severe depression and mental illness.

I understand there is one psychologist on the panel? If they make it into deliberations, I think they will be the one to help the others determine if any of this has any credibility as a mitigating factor. But just one? Wouldn't she need more than one to outweigh the cruelty? 3 months spent on one mitigating factor?

Seriously. They are retrying the case to make this jury believe that she never should have even received a first degree verdict.

MOO

Bill Arais told Det. Flores about Sandy going to Mesa to bring Jodi back to Yreka so they could get her some help. He said that he told her that he had rules that she'd have to follow, and she wasn't going to be up all night and sleeping all day. Seems like Jodi 's been needing help since she was quite young. Still doesn't justify or explain a planned murder.

 

[Ricki]

Deleted

 

[Hatfield]

I think in a twisted way we are getting as close to the truth as we may ever get when it comes to the murderer. I think there has been pretty solid evidence presented (in both the trial and here) that JAA is personality disordered (BPD) with anti social tendencies along with hints of narcissism. The fact that several people in her inner circle thought she was Bipolar seems close to accurate in light of the fact that Bipolar and BPD can often be misdiagnosed- one for the other- as they have similarities that may overlap (thanks BritsKate).

The fact that she never got help for it seems to go along with her diagnosis, as well, but as we have wonderful posters who have been diagnosed BPD... that doesn't explain everything, especially the murder. Hence the sociopathy/psychopathy aspect.

She did NOT want the diagnosis in the first trial- not even the hint of it- which leads me to believe this is very close to the truth. Also, why the people who knew or cared about her were unable to get her to seek help.

My sister was diagnosed BPD and abruptly halted therapy and she is not a psychopath.

What really could have been done?

Even if Travis had sought a restraining order- we know how that goes- it never really stops anything and almost seems to escalate the violent behavior of perpetrators.

Sadly, I think she would have killed him- no matter what- and no one could have put her away before the fact.

It seems almost inevitable watching her all consuming obsession with Travis and anyone that had anything to do with him- too.

What was so different about Travis?

I think his personality attracted and repelled her all at the same time.

Her empty, false sense of self was magnified next to him- to the highest power imaginable. His joy for life, his magnetism, his determination and drive... his generosity and his humor. I really believe someone like Jodi is not able to find genuine humor- gut wrenching, belly laughing, wet your pants kind of humor- in anything.

Why would someone else's bright light extinguish anothers?

It wouldn't.

It would only make evident the fact that the other had no light within- to begin with.

Why the hell didn't she just kill her own, damn, sorry self? Because she HATED Travis- not because he didn't want her it was because having known him she came to the recognition that she was an empty, dark, black hole of a soul and he had figured it out too. There would be no lingering friendship for her, no well wishes for her future, no future manipulations by her. He was going to tell her secret to everyone- her family included- remember?

To all who would have ears to listen. The moment JAA knew that, her plan went in to action. It was inevitable. She had to snuff that life force out- the one she would never have herself. She didn't want to have Travis, she wanted to BE Travis.

I don't even think Travis would have followed through with his threats, I think he would have moved on and tried to forget her. I have no doubt that he would have been a more cautious person and maybe not so all forgiving.

Who knows what his life may have been. Sadly, I believe the day he crossed paths with her was the day the time started ticking down on the clock of his life.

She will always be the worst thing that ever happened to him... to many more people now, as well.

I look at the picture of her as a darling toddler with pigtails and wonder how does someone like her even come into being?

Great post.

A possible answer to the last question. Perhaps some genetically dispostion in her case possibly from a combination of faulty genes merging just right/wrong? The movie "The Bad Seed" comes to mind. A great classic movie that I saw recently from recomendation of the nice people in the Sidebar thread. The amazing correlations to Jodi stand out like a sore thumb when watching that movie.

 

[potboiler]

I hope the jurors see through this. The journal is her fantasy world. Whenever it contradicts some other 'fact' she claimed, then the answer is "Travis would read my journal and made me take that out" or "Travis told me not to put that in my journal". Heads I win; tails you lose.

Why would they see through it? They haven't heard hours of testimony about the "secret" and how she edited her journals. I can't believe all the crap he spews and no one is named! This is really stressing me out. The fact that the Alexander's are being tourtured this way is appalling.:tantrum:

 

[Val1]

AZL: What is it called when the mitigation witnesses are repetitive?

Boring?

 

[katydid23]

Why would they see through it? They haven't heard hours of testimony about the "secrete" and how she edited her journals. I can't believe all the crap he spews and no one is named! This is really stressing me out. The fact that the Alexander's are being tourtured this way is appalling.:tantrum:

Don't worry. Juan will show the jury how she is. He will rip this testimony to shreds. :hero:

 

[Hatfield]

Their strategy seems to be to try and make Travis look like a controlling, abusive monster. But then they point to kid of normal things that happen to everyone.' You have sex with a guy and he does not call for a couple of days.' DUH. That's the way of the world. Most girls figure out not to give it away after that.

You have a fight, then make up by having sex. Double DUH. Since when is that abusive? That is pretty normal relationship stuff. You are not mad at each other anymore and you want to be intimate to reestablish your relationship. I don't see that as controlling if both are on board. And Jodi was fully on board.

At some point he wanted her to date other people. HELLO. That is a very common way to try and get rid of your ex. You just hope and pray they meet a new victim. I don't see that as abusive on his part, just optimistic and unrealistic.

The same with the 'initiated sex while she was asleep' ---trying to make that out as some kind of rape is ridiculous. If she had never been his willing sex partner, then of course it would be abusive. But most people appreciate being approached in that way by their loved one. I think the jurors will feel the same way.

When this Geff guy keeps trying to reiterate how 'abusive' Travis was, and then points to him 'pulling on her wrist once' and pushing her another time, they will shrug. We ALL know what true abuse looks like. We all know what it is really like when someone is TRAPPED in a violent, abusive relationship. And this was not it.

Thank you for being "real".

The DT needs a dose of reality.

 

[katydid23]

Remember this:

" TRaviS iS DEad? WhAt hAPpeneD ???"



http://abcnews.go.com/US/jodi-arias-lied-diary-travis-alexander-dead/story?id=18237014


Jodi Arias, who has admitted lying about killing her ex-boyfriend Travis Alexander, even lied to her diary in the weeks after his death, according to entries obtained exclusively by ABC News.

The page begins ".. that Travis is dead. What happened?!? Travis, what is this?"

The next entry is dated June 11and said in part, "Last night was so hard... I wanted so badly to call Travis, but knowing he wouldn't answer was too much to bear. And knowing he wasn't calling me anytime soon was just killing me. I broke down as I climbed into bed and just cried and cried and cried until I fell asleep."

 

[katydid23]

All Juan has to do is make Doctor G read this portion of her 'journal' to the jury.

" Travis is dead. What happened?!? Travis, what is this?"

"Last night was so hard... I wanted so badly to call Travis, but knowing he wouldn't answer was too much to bear. And knowing he wasn't calling me anytime soon was just killing me. I broke down as I climbed into bed and just cried and cried and cried until I fell asleep."



That will totally invalidate all of the Bullchit they have been tediously plodding through all week long.

 

[gcharlie]

Well, these journals are doing well to establish how disturbed Jodi was/is and that's not necessarily Travis' fault. She couldn't handle relationships, period. These are very borderline writings, with her going into full spin just because Travis doesn't call her back quickly enough or he keeps his relationships to himself (he probably didn't want to answer every single little question about everyone in his life).

If I'm a juror, these journals are very telling to me and not in the way the DT would think. She was unhealthily obsessed with him. But there may be a juror who might find this mitigating anyway.

You wrote exactly what I have been thinking!

I'm betting by now most of these jurors don't even need Juan to point out how disturbed, immature and obsessed Arias was. The defense is revealing a lot about her in her own words all the while trying to cast Travis in a very negative light.

Unfortunately, today ended with journal entries around October 2007, so there is still almost 8 more months to cover. I'm hearing rumblings that Geffner is going into this detail because Arias will not be taking the stand again, which means Geffner will tell about the pedo incident yet again.

All it takes is one juror to hang against the death penalty. Martinez has Karp as a witness- she was the first defense psych witness who was supposed to testify about Travis' deviant sexual behavior and violent tendencies. Travis' friends Zach and Taylor are also on the witness list and can help to counter a lot of this testimony, painting Arias as the obsessed stalker and by no means a victim. Time will tell.