Retrial for Sentencing of Jodi Arias - Day 31

[Wing Ding]

After today, I'm more certain than ever that most/all the sex was in JA's imagination -

The one bs story of hers that comes to mind is where she said she gave him oral on her front porch (the house's front porch, that is) and after he zipped up he threw some cash at her and drove off without saying a word to her. I think she said they were playing out one of his fantasies, but it was probably her fantasy. And of course the first two encounters she said they had are also total bs. Not to mention her butt-sex story after being Baptized. She does have quite the imagination.

 

[ILikeToBendPages]

Heard he moved to Hawaii to get away from her. Talk about putting distance between you, he needed an ocean!!!

In her journal she writes @ 1998 about two girls (can't remember their names) that had called her names and messed with her head, then she said just like Bobby had a zillions times.,and she had a psychological reaction to it.

Then you have Darryl who tormented and verbally emotionally and psychology abused her one afternoon to the point she said she hyperventilated and had a nervous breakdown. That was a few months before he moved out in December 2006.

From 2006 - 2008 you have Jodi going crazy on Travis and others, and who know what all she said and did to Travis. I think the April "attack" where she didn't want to scratch his eyes out, was Travis pushing her away from him and that became abuse because he was rejecting her. Jodi told Det. Flores that the last time they had sex on Travis's bed was in April.

 

[Fuskier]

Excerpt from Katydid23: " ... Remember, borderline personality disorder or even antisocial personality disorder are not considered to be “severe mental illnesses.”
Apology for this post being out of sync. I've had difficulty posting again. However, PD's diagnosis follows proper Clinical Assessment and describes the 'character' (personality) of that person. They are classed in the 'character disorder' category and not considered organic (or major) mental illnesses. In accord with others on here, PD's are considered among some of the most dangerous people living in our communities. My opinion only.

 

[Sedonia Sunset]

Zenya going on the "haters" list. Expect an angry letter from Maricopa county jail in the future.

Perryville -- the angry letter will come from PERRYVILLE.

 

[Meemaw12]

@karmicaaron: New items added to the #JodiArias docket yesterday. http://t.co/Fu6mWkt4mZ


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Sedonia Sunset]

From CS @ CNN:

Carolyn Sung @CarolynSungCNN · 31s 32 seconds ago

#jodiarias appears to be writing something at defense table, she's not wearing her glasses right now.

Maybe they accidentally broke when she was accidentally sharpening the stems.

 

[AngelWings444]

It upsets me to see so much negativity in the posts today, disagreeing between members etc. This case has everyone on edge, all riled up and I worry that at the end, if she's sentanced to LWOP that so many people see that as a loss. DP or LWOP, really makes no difference, she's never walking out, ever. I think we all need to accept that and focus on the one thing each and every one of us has wanted from the start. Travis' name to be cleared. And it has been. Between yesterday and today, I can honestly say the sentance doesn't matter to me anymore. Juan won today, the family won today, justice was served today. Her team will try to dispute it. Her experts will be back to blab more BS. But it doesn't matter. We all saw the real truth today and for me, knowing hOw much it destroyed Jodi to have all her BS made public, I'm good. DP or LWOP, I don't care. We've already won.

I have finally caught up. It's healthy to have debate and pick each others brains. It would be so boring if we all agreed and didn't challenge each other. I learned so much today from all the posts and never once did I think any member at WS was disrespectful to another. Healthy, respectful, debate, you can only find at WS. :wink: At the end of the day, we have no clue which way the jury will vote or who will be picked. Today though, was a very good day for the prosecution, Travis Alexander, and his family. His character was restored and all those lies about him were destroyed in a matter of hours. Dr. D tells it like it is, so refreshing . Things kind of fell into place for me after hearing some things were weren't privy to in the first trial. Dr. D, even in this trial by tweet, comes across as nothing but a consummate professional. She made things make sense, even clearer than the first trial. I don't look forward the the cross of Dr. D, but I have a feeling that the defense better change it up and stop trashing Travis or their client will get the DP. JA must try to somehow "seem" remorseful or she is going to put herself on death row. JMO

Thanks to everyone for their hard work. It's so appreciated for those who can't be here all the time, or choose to go shopping instead. :blushing:

 

[LinasK]

It's odd, isn't it, that no DT "expert" has spoken up for BPD when that is supposed to be a mitigating factor. They all got so busy covering each other's asses with PTSD and DV, they ignored BPD altogether. I don't think either Dr. G or Dr. F were even licensed to give a mental health diagnosis in Arizona, and their agenda was to defend ALV rather than give an expert perspective. All smoke and mirrors.

Because Borderline doesn't fit with their theory of self-defense/snapped/fog as well as the PTSD does, so now how do they they justify the BPD behaviors??? Just hope they aren't reading here and noticing all the posters who are gaining support for humanizing her with this diagnosis so as to vote for Life over Death. If anybody deserves Death, it's Jodi for the sheer heinousness of the overkilling and continuing to harass the victim's family.

 

[AngelWings444]

The difference between "diagnosis" and "opinion" is irrelevant to this case. They have presented evidence that she has PTSD. The state has presented evidence that she does not have PTSD. Both sides will be permitted to argue this issue in closing.

There are no shades of gray at all for the "age 27" mitigator. She's either 27 or she's not. But for PTSD experts can and very often do disagree.

I wonder if she starts acting paranoid and gets startled tomorrow. I bet she didn't see that one coming today. :wink:

 

[Ransom]

I'm stepping in as arbitrator. An honest mistake was made: it doesn't matter who made it. As far as I can tell, you are probably both saying the same thing; the facts from both posters are likely correct. To summarize: Dr. D=Borderline, Dr. G=Bipolar (not a diagnosis, but second-hand), 2nd DT Dr.=apparently no diagnosis, but definitely no mention of Borderline.
That completes my task as arbitrator (let's hope I didn't goof, too, lol).

You did good. :heartbeat: you. Don't care who's right or wrong.

 

[LinasK]

4. I believe Travis had no idea, nor did he have any perspective to even believe Jodi was capable of more than being a giant, persistent, stalking, tire slashing pest. Yes, he could have asked for a restraining order but in this case it would have probably only angered Jodi more and made her even more resolute to destroy him. He could have locked his doors more securely, refused her entrance. But why would he have feared this kind of outcome? It sounds as if he had “talked her down” many times, listened to her cry for hours, forgiven her repeatedly, and had been the brunt of her manipulation. But again, why would he have feared her next step was murder?

Travis started out naive with Jodi, but he learned to a degree. I wish he had gotten a restraining order, locked his doors and changed the locks and called the cops when she showed up. He did have an idea that she could potentially be violent but I think he dismissed it. He commented on his Facebook page about an ax-murderer (presumably a reference to Jodi) and he told someone from his church that if he didn't show up Jodi killed him. I wish he hadn't ignored his gut feeling.

 

[LinasK]

The one bs story that comes to mind is where she said she gave him oral on her front porch (the house's front porch) and after he zipped up he threw some cash at her and drove off without saying a word to her. I think she said they were playing out one of his fantasies. And of course the first two encounters she said they had are also total bs. She does have quite the imagination.

Just like I don't believe he sent her a Valentine's gift of moldy chocolates and Travis panties.

 

[kaRN]

OT but related to our earlier discussion on BPD as a mitigating factor. BPD isn't a disability from either a medical or legal standpoint. Intellectual disability is however.

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2015/jan/27/supreme-court-georgia-execution-warren-hill

 

[Fuskier]

In the end, this distinction might be moot, since Jodi doesn't have any mental condition that mitigates what she did, mental illness, mental disorder, personality disorder, both.... Whatever combination of those she might have won't explain the premeditation, the calculation, the lack of remorse. She was not ruled "unable to discern between right and wrong". And what she does suffer from aren't mitigators.

BBM. Agree with these more 'psychopathic' elements.

 

[MsFacetious]

It is not a mental illness. It is a 'Personality Disorder.' It is not like schizophrenia, where one might her voices and have hallucinations, and be in a full blown psychotic state.

It is a disorder, and does not prevent one from being sent to Death Row.

Clearly I have been out of the loop... but they are now saying she has Borderline?
I was saying that years ago! She is so textbook it's ridiculous.

This doesn't mean she didn't know what she was doing was wrong.
Plenty of Borderlines are all "I Hate You, Don't Leave Me" (good book!) and never kill anyone. :twocents:

 

[Teresa]

And that's the 'win', isn't it? Not death over LWOP, but that he is vindicated and she is revealed.

Just what I was thinking too. Even if Jodi doesn't get death JM told the real "story" of Travis and Jodi. Thank you for doing a great job JM.

 

[Wing Ding]

No one is asking this jury to dismiss a darn thing. BPD is not a mitigator or cause for murder.

So the bottom line on BPD is it may explain why she murdered Travis, but it doesn't excuse her? That's good enough for me.

 

[Teresa]

Me, too, Nali87. IMO, DP is too easy. I hope JA lives a VERY long life in the little cage of prison, with the memories on a constant loop of what she's done. Executing Jodi will not bring any peace, healing or closure for Travis' Family.

Disagree, the Alexander's want the death penalty. The verdict will be a first step on a journey to find closure.

 

[BritsKate]

Just a few random thoughts:

Borderlines do not have to mimic or feign an emotional response. Antisocials and psychopaths often have to.

Borderlines may realize their emotional reaction is extreme but that doesn't mean they realize there is something 'wrong' with them. Many loved ones state that it often takes a rock bottom moment for a borderline to accept they need help. Many personality disordered people can go decades without ever being diagnosed at all.

Within the last few years, there has been initial research done into psychopathy and borderline. What researchers have discovered is an overlap with the disorders. Researchers call it a BPD variant of psychopathy in women and suggest a diagnostic label of borderline psychopath. Essentially, some female psychopaths share many borderline traits. If one thinks of borderline like an arc, a typical borderline would be at one end while a borderline psychopath would be at the other.

Emotional lability (inappropriate or unproportionate emotional responses); anger; impulsivity; manipulation; deception and aggression are found in both psychopathy and borderline.

Borderlines often struggle with low self-esteem while psychopathy has narcissistic features such as a grandiose sense of self-worth.

Psychological abuse (emotional blackmail, manipulation, deception, triangulation, projection, etc.) is very common in both psychopathy and each of the cluster B personality disorders.

High risk behaviors are also very common between all the disorders.

Personality disordered people can and do commit suicide. In one study, the highest incidence of completed suicides were borderlines who also exhibited antisocial traits, elevated impulsivity and a higher level of aggression than those who did not successfully commit suicide. Substance use and abuse is also very common among the personality disordered because they seek to self-medicate.

Borderlines may well display a range of abusive, intrusive, and manipulative behaviors. Psychopaths can display that same range but with something like psychopathy we also see a level of callousness that isn't present with 'just' borderline. One of their hallmark traits, psychopaths so not feel empathy for others.


JMO, FWIW, IME, and AFAIK :biggrin:

 

[BritsKate]

So the bottom line on BPD is it may explain why she murdered Travis, but it doesn't excuse her? That's good enough for me.

I disagree. I believe borderline explains her intrusive (read stalkerish) behaviors, her emotional immaturity, and her need to be in a relationship (or several). It does not explain why she chose to murder someone.

It also does not, cannot, explain her animal abuse; hitting her brother with a bat; destroying Travis now; sending the irises to Norma (because Travis liked Iris for a potential future daughter's name, according to Jodi); making the sex tape; the 18 page letter; the different responses to psychs; her reaction in interviews; glib responses; flat affect (remember she was more animated on the stand describing their sexcapades then she was recounting the details of the murder); or her belief that no jury would ever convict her.

For all of that, there's only one explanation and that's psychopathy. The jury will unfortunately not hear about it but many of her behaviors and traits are not consistent, or even associated, with borderline. Even a heightened level of aggression - for many borderlines, that aggression is turned on themselves. However, for female psychopaths, that aggression is often turned outward.

JMO