Revisit - Did CA/GA cover up 7-16-08

[Woe.be.gone]

I've been following this case since it began and was reading all the released docs from foxnews, but my husband has only heard me talk of it a few times and since he was just humoring me, didn't really pay attn to what I told him LOL... after watching the 48 hours program, however, he says Casey is guilty. I expressed my "feelings" of how I cannot wrap my head around a mother hurting her child, period. I said maybe Cindy did it and he thought that might be possible but what would be her motive? I said the same as Casey's; "If I can't have her, neither can you."

Just speculation and opinion!!!!

ETA: Casey hated Cindy more than she loved Caylee... maybe Cindy hated Casey more than she loved Caylee??

Thanks for your input and Welcome!

If CA was involved with the death of Caylee, I believe whatever happened would have been an accident but she could never admit her mistake (fell asleep and left Caylee unattended - too many drugs/drinks, etc.). Therefore CA would need a script and would be the cause of how the whole situation has blown up into this fiasco of lies - all to keep from exposing the truth that CA was the one who was in charge of Caylee at the time of her death. Maybe this is a bit farfetched but the way CA acts causes me believe it is not impossible. She may reassure KC that KC will get off because, afterall, KC is innocent (because they both know that).

Now, if KC was in charge of Caylee at the time of her death, or worse, killed Caylee outright, the way she has been profiled, acted and responded to everyone/everything, I guess it is believable that she could have actually killed Caylee by her own hand.

If CA was the last one with Caylee, she did not kill Caylee but allowed her to somehow have a fatal accident imo. I can't "see" CA killing Caylee. But I can see her hiding the fact that she was in charge when Caylee met her untimely fate.

 

[TheMeaningOfItAll]

I don't think the possibility of CA being involved is that far-fetched since her behavior has cast doubt on everything she says and does in this case. However, the reason I don't buy CA being involved in Caylee's death is that there is (in my opinion) NO WAY Casey would take the wrap for CA. No bleeping way. If CA told Casey that something happened to Caylee and she needed Casey to follow a script, put Caylee's body in the back of Casey's car, let it sit there and decompose for a few days, borrow the neighbor's shovel, then take the body out, duct tape the mouth and put a heart shaped sticker on it, bag it, put it in laundry bags, and dump it at the side of the road along with blankets and balloons from Caylee's bedroom and THEN ditch the car at Amscot, Casey would dial 911 and bury CA so far and fast that she would REALLY end up with the house and cars etc. No way would Casey lie and steal money from her friends just to go along with her mother or father. She did this all on her own. I do go back and forth on the idea that they (CA and GA or even LA) re-disposed of Caylee or helped get rid of the body. Maybe dug it up in the back yard and put it somewhere else.

 

[carrie]

My thinking is the same as themeaningofitall's.

I don't think KC would take the rap for anybody-not even temporarily. I don't think she'd spend even a night in jail for Cindy.

 

[DaughterAlice]

For whatever it's worth, CA was planning to call the police about the car anyway, likely before she even knew there was a smell in it. KC was avoiding her, and she (CA) didn't like it. It was a power struggle. Since KC didn't own the car, it would be easy to turn her in for stealing it. She shared this idea with a neighbor (. . . uh, who's spouse I worked with around that time . . .), before all heck came down.

It is, however, a good question. The car smelled "like a dead body's been in the d@mn car . . ." and you know she knew something really bad had happened. My only speculation is that her initially instincts were right . . . call the police. Then once she had time to think about it, she started the cover-up.

Do we know when the police actually took the car? Do we know when CA actually washed KC's pants with the same smell? It could have been an afterthought - like oh carp, I had better clean stuff up before they can get to it.

 

[carrie]

For whatever it's worth, CA was planning to call the police about the car anyway, likely before she even knew there was a smell in it. KC was avoiding her, and she (CA) didn't like it. It was a power struggle. Since KC didn't own the car, it would be easy to turn her in for stealing it. She shared this idea with a neighbor (. . . uh, who's spouse I worked with around that time . . .), before all heck came down.

It is, however, a good question. The car smelled "like a dead body's been in the d@mn car . . ." and you know she knew something really bad had happened. My only speculation is that her initially instincts were right . . . call the police. Then once she had time to think about it, she started the cover-up.

Do we know when the police actually took the car? Do we know when CA actually washed KC's pants with the same smell? It could have been an afterthought - like oh carp, I had better clean stuff up before they can get to it.

I'm not sure when they took the car but I know it wasn't the night of the 911 call. I'm going to try to look that up but if anyone knows maybe they could help us out.

I remember reading in one of the LE interviews of Cindy where she stated that she thought the police had looked at everything they needed to and taken everything they needed so she thought it was okay to wash the pants. I don't have a link, sorry, but I'll try to find it. (we really do need a searchable reference library)

 

[nobull]

I didn't bother reading the other pages on this topic, but I will say this. There is very little that the Anthony's have done during this whole fiasco that has made sense. IMO, I think CA used the cops as a bluff that she was forced to follow through with since KC wasn't giving up the info. I really don't think CA really thought it would go this far. But in the meantime, she and GA quickly realized what a mountain of $..t KC is in and would do absolutely anything, including bold faced lying, to keep her from the needle that they know she rightfully deserves. My opinion.

 

[CuriousTwo]

I'm not sure when they took the car but I know it wasn't the night of the 911 call. I'm going to try to look that up but if anyone knows maybe they could help us out.

I remember reading in one of the LE interviews of Cindy where she stated that she thought the police had looked at everything they needed to and taken everything they needed so she thought it was okay to wash the pants. I don't have a link, sorry, but I'll try to find it. (we really do need a searchable reference library)

IIRC, she said that SHE asked LE if they needed various items (especially those items LA retrieved from TL's apartment) and they said "no." And, at that point, she put items back in their place - in KC's bedroom, etc.

 

[Truthwillsetufree]

Very early on I chose not to discuss the family because they were being vilified in the media. That was BEFORE their crazy train departed the station. I totally agree with your comments about CA. I think many of her behaviors at the time could have been explained by the points that you raised. My opinion of the family has changed however, in the last year due to their actions. As a mother I would want to do everything in my power to protect my child regardless of what they had done. BUT, I would support them quietly, refuse interviews and media rounds, would not sell images of my grandchild, align myself with unsavory scam artists(DM), and continue to force feed the general public that notion that the "emperor is fully clothed" and that there is "no proof he is naked" and then cry foul when someone points out a discrepancy in my statement. I would tell the truth and be consistent in my depositions. I would love my child, and honor my grandchild and keep my family and their feelings private. Just because the media made this such a public case, does not mean that the A family was obligated to function as "spin doctors". Those behaviors can not be excused. I will say this.....nobody should have to go through what the A family is going through.. Nobody should have to feel that anguish. Nobody should be put in a position where they have to "choose" loyalties between family members. Nobody can fully understand their reasoning. BUT......nobody is above the law. I wish they had never given one public statement. They would have been much further ahead in the sympathy polls and better off for it.

While I agree with you 100 percent in your post. There is a flip side. If the A's had never spoken, given interviews, I am afraid some evidence and vital clues might have been missed. "Loose lips sink ships" was advice given to GI's in WWII and I think it applies to this situation as well. Due to their inability to keep quiet, we, the general public have come to find out that they are not the grieving grandparents one would think that they would be. Due to their talking and talking, their foundation has received little support, which is a good thing due to the people the A's have surrounded themselves with. If the A's had remained silent, we may all have been taken for the proverbial Ride. I am grateful for all their public statements, as much as it pains my eardrums to hear CA utter a syllable. It gave us, LE, SA and the media insight into just who and what everyone was and are dealing with.

 

[kpalma715]

I think that CA "knew" something as soon as that car pulled in the driveway....but a small part of her had hope that she was wrong. I think that while she cleaned up the car she still hoped that she could get KC to produce Caylee. In the back of her mind, she left open the possibility that Caylee was alive, but her deliberate actions were her "motherly" instincts to protect her daughter kicking in. When she finally got KC home and found out that KC would not or could not produce a safe and live Caylee her gut reactions kicked in. She was realizing that her fears had been confirmed. She called 911 because in that moment of anger and panic(her real feelings unfiltered)..she wanted KC punished. She wanted KC held accountable. She wanted Caylee and KC was an afterthought. It was after she realized that night that Caylee was never coming home that she began her agenda to protect KC. Again...motherly instincts kicking in.

I agree with you 100%!!!

 

[Imbackon]

Cindy's July 3rd MySpace comments about Caylee being kept from her out of jealousy, makes me think that initially Cindy thought that Caylee was being deliberately withheld from her because Casey was angry - probably because of the fight between Cindy and Casey on the evening of June 15th.

When Cindy picked Casey up at TL's apartment on July 15th and brought her home, she was demanding to see Caylee and even went so far as to threaten Casey with the police, going to a closed police substation, and making two 911calls.

It was only when she overheard Casey telling Lee that Caylee had been kidnapped by the nanny, that Cindy panicked. In her panic, she picked up the phone and called 911 for the third time that evening.

I think there was a sequence to Cindy's beliefs. First she thought Caylee was deliberately being withheld from her and then secondly she believed that Caylee had been kidnapped.

On July 16th, Casey was escorted by LE to the Sawgrass apartments, other apartments where "Zanny" was said to have lived, and to Universal Studios. Casey's lies were exposed and she was arrested on charges of child neglect, obstruction of justice, and lying to the police.

In an early news story, Cindy stated that she, George, and George's sister were at home with the television on, anticipating an Amber Alert for Caylee. Cindy said someone called them and told them to change the channel to another station, where it was being reported that Casey had been arrested.

I think when Cindy learned that Casey had been arrested and that LE had investigated and uncovered the lies in the kidnapping story, is when Cindy KNEW something had happened to Caylee and Casey was responsible. That's when Cindy went into cover-up mode.

Two days later, she and George gave an interview to a local news media, and in that interview they never once made a plea for the "kidnapper" to return Caylee (they knew there was no kidnapper). They were extolling Casey's virtues as a wonderful mother. Cindy said Casey always used a shovel to dig out the bamboo shoots that came up in the yard so Caylee wouldn't hurt her feet. She talked about keeping their shed locked and the ladder out of the pool. The shed, pool ladder, and shovel, were all things that would come up later as the case unfolded.

Leila, I've almost broke a nail hitting the THANKS button so much during this thread, but I just need to tell you that your post hit the nail on the head. Fits perfectly with my own thinking as to how this went down, and at what point the light bulb went on and they went into protect mode.

 

[Leila]

If I could thank your post 1 million times I would. ITA with everything you wrote from the 1st word to the last.

I have one small point to add and based on every single live interview of CA, from day 2 until now, I believe she is all about control and manipulation. She approaches the camera knowing exactly what she wants to say and to heJJ with anyones questions.She has used the media to control as much of the investigation that she possibly could.

GA, LA were her puppets, Recall the interview where she grabs GA's leg, recall her sing/songey tone when she said to KC in jail "I don't know what you mean Honey" and recall that she said Lee could always get KC to talk, so she leans against the door listening to what KC is telling him and waits to hear her explanation. CA knew she pushed KC's buttons and back KC into a corner about the stealing from GMA & GPA.

If we are to believe CA, then there was no arguement on that fateful day, while several other people have said that there was. Why would she deny it? Because something pretty darn bad happened (hands around KC's neck, choking her for example) and perhaps KC said that her solution was for both of them to be dead or 'I'll kill her before you get her'. KC leaves in a huff with Caylee, not to be seen again. CA may have even said good or perhaps there was a struggle over Caylee. I believe that CA may have hurt them somehow,
and that is why she cooled it for a bit, then wrote that email saying how unappreciative KC was. She seems like the type of person that when they push your buttons and you snap back, she becomes the victim.

During the 911 calls KC seems resigned to the fact that CA was going to do what she wanted to do and that was call the police. "Do what you have to do", sounded resigned and flat to me. KC dumping the car at the Amscot was not what CA wanted. If the car wasn't towed, no one would know anything. Remember GA said that CA told him she talked to KC daily. Lee said the same thing. They were getting their updates from CA. It seems to me there was some covering up before Caylee was declared missing. But they had to go to plan b when the tow company got involved.

Makes you wonder why LA has vitually vanished from the scene, doesn't it?
Plus, GA's wings have been clipped and the guy doesn't fly solo.

In regards to the part I put in bold.............in one of the taped jail house visits, Casey said to Cindy, "don't worry I haven't told them anything." That one sentence from Casey has always bothered me. What is it she hasn't told them (LE)? Was she saying that she hadn't told the police about the fight on June 15th and what Cindy did to her?

Or, was Casey referring to something else........something that would implicate Cindy in aiding and abetting in what happened to Caylee?

 

[Leila]

For whatever it's worth, CA was planning to call the police about the car anyway, likely before she even knew there was a smell in it. KC was avoiding her, and she (CA) didn't like it. It was a power struggle. Since KC didn't own the car, it would be easy to turn her in for stealing it. She shared this idea with a neighbor (. . . uh, who's spouse I worked with around that time . . .), before all heck came down.

It is, however, a good question. The car smelled "like a dead body's been in the d@mn car . . ." and you know she knew something really bad had happened. My only speculation is that her initially instincts were right . . . call the police. Then once she had time to think about it, she started the cover-up.

Do we know when the police actually took the car? Do we know when CA actually washed KC's pants with the same smell? It could have been an afterthought - like oh carp, I had better clean stuff up before they can get to it.

LE took the car late on Wednesday, July 16th, if I recall correctly. CA claimed in a media interview that they (LE) let the car sit there for "days", and LE clarified that by stating that it was removed on the 16th.

 

[USARDOG]

Another theory could be, knowing how cindy always says casey is her best friend and they are soo close..perhaps cindy was pizzed that casey wouldn't tell her what happened? cindy's retaliation is threatening to call LE, but not truly meaning it? I truly think that had casey told cindy that night prior to the 911 calls that caylee had died, cindy would have never called 911. She'd have concocted a story to her family, and never involve LE. Thats what cindy does best....cover for casey.

Also, cindy asks casey in jail "why did you leave the car there?" In other words ..Why didn't you ask ME for help?

Bold by me.

I don't for one second believe that kc is CA's best friend. Remember, the truth seldom comes from a A. IMO the truth is, kc and CA hated each other. In fact, IMO, kc hated ca so much she killed caylee in great part to get back at, to throw off control, to finally win the game of tug they had been playing with caylee as the rope/prize. KC wanted to win the game, but didn't want the prize, she just wanted to win control from CA, and finally be free of CA, and this is the only way she knew how to do it.

 

[patcorn]

I believe CA was in "cover-up mode" the whole time KC was gone! She probably blew off the seriousness of the situation with GA and hoped she would turn up with the baby soon. The whole time she knew in the back of her mind that things were not right and she hinted this much to her coworkers and even went out on a limb and reached out through myspace but when she smelled that car (that and I believe there was other evidence in that car that she was privy to during her cleanup of the vehicle), she was running on pure honest emotion. She was fighting for her grandbaby's safety. Thats why she was calling the police and not backing down. Too bad that fire has since left her. She is now is a safer place called Denial.

 

[DotsEyes]

"If she was already in coverup mode, why did Cindy call 911 at all?"

Good question. Either she wasn't in coverup mode, or she was calling the police to keep GA off of KC.

 

[Curious Me]

Whatever really did happen must be worth covering up. It's no simple accident that Caylee died. I know the Ants are a prideful bunch, but if it was an accident that CA knew about she'd have spilled the beans to save Casey. No, I think what the cover-up is was Casey did, in fact, murder Caylee. There was a big fight, and Cindy wants to keep that quiet too because it lends a rage motive to Casey killing Caylee, but it would only prove more so that Casey did do it.

 

[essies]

"If she was already in coverup mode, why did Cindy call 911 at all?"

Good question. Either she wasn't in coverup mode, or she was calling the police to keep GA off of KC.

I doubt Cindy needed LE to keep George off KC. All Cindy had to say to George was I'll handle it and George would back off. He stated that in his depo. I don' think Cindy was in coverup mode at the time of the 911 calls. I think she was using LE as a weapon to break KC. Remember KC was treating Cindy pretty much the same as KC treated YM and JA! KC wouldn't budge and Cindy was getting no where!!
Cindy went into coverup mode when she couldn't control the way the investigation was going. Cindy became angry with YM and JA because they followed up on KC's lies and found out the facts. I think it was sometime in that time frame that CA found out the truth!
Cindy wanted YM and JA to follow her down the rabbit hole and they refused to follow!!

 

[Dutchie Treat]

I think CA was tired of trying to cajole KC into producing Caylee. She was probably becoming increasingly worried and knowing her daughter (which she did and does), must have been wondering what KC was up to. I don't think CA was trying to cover up for KC. I think she was doing her version of "tough love" and bluffing her into producing Caylee. She acted on her threat to call the sheriff (911) and turn KC in. She probably hoped that KC would give in at the last minute and produce Caylee. When this didn't happen, she must have started piecing together various scenarios, none of which would include KC murdering Caylee. Perhaps the shock of the realisation that KC most likely killed Caylee caused so much mental anguish that a survival mechanism kicked in, in which she is most likely still functioning. I can imagine that CA simply cannot fathom the fact that KC could kill her own child. I feel sorry for her sometimes (don't shoot me!!!! ). I think it's unfortunate that she has not made the conscious choice to get justice for Caylee in spite of KC being her daughter. One can remove one's self from that parental bond in this type of situation.

 

[CarrieSis]

I think CA originally saw a way to get what SHE wanted. She didn't want her daughter going to prison for killing someone, necessarily (thus the *possible* car cleanup, etc) but she DID think she could get custody of Caylee by threatening KC with calling the cops. She thought KC would hand her over because now she had something concrete on her - SOME kind of crime happened in the car! But when KC still didn't produce Caylee, maybe she figured that a mom in prison would still get her custody of Caylee, so she called 911 to threaten her with the stealing the car and money stuff, and figured that the police would be able to make KC produce Caylee. KC didn't want Cindy to have her and that was the fight on Father's Day before they left.

First call:
http://www.docstoc.com/docs/5711171/Casey-Anthony-Cindy-Anthony-First-911-July-15-2008

Then it all starts to come out. However KC came up with the kidnapping story, Cindy FREAKS OUT now. Where is Caylee? What do you mean she's been missing for a month? (Maybe in her head she first doesn't connect the car smell with *Caylee* - who knows what situations went through her head re: drugs, etc that KC *might have* been wrapped up in - see multiple threads on this very board about such possibilities.)

2nd 911 call
http://www.docstoc.com/docs/5711170/Casey-Anthony-Cindy-Anthony-Second-911-July-15-2008

I have no idea what happened after that but I think that's where CA was in her head when she made the initial 911 call. Sure of herself, and so glad that now she had something to gain custody of Caylee with...

 

[LandAuxvasse]

I don't think the possibility of CA being involved is that far-fetched since her behavior has cast doubt on everything she says and does in this case. However, the reason I don't buy CA being involved in Caylee's death is that there is (in my opinion) NO WAY Casey would take the wrap for CA. No bleeping way. If CA told Casey that something happened to Caylee and she needed Casey to follow a script, put Caylee's body in the back of Casey's car, let it sit there and decompose for a few days, borrow the neighbor's shovel, then take the body out, duct tape the mouth and put a heart shaped sticker on it, bag it, put it in laundry bags, and dump it at the side of the road along with blankets and balloons from Caylee's bedroom and THEN ditch the car at Amscot, Casey would dial 911 and bury CA so far and fast that she would REALLY end up with the house and cars etc. No way would Casey lie and steal money from her friends just to go along with her mother or father. She did this all on her own. I do go back and forth on the idea that they (CA and GA or even LA) re-disposed of Caylee or helped get rid of the body. Maybe dug it up in the back yard and put it somewhere else.

Right! I was thinking more along the lines that Cindy did the taping, wrapping, and throwing the body in the car... then contacted Casey and said something along the lines of, "Get yourself out of this one since you don't need me anymore." Just pure imagination because sometimes I look at the pics of Casey and Caylee and see a lot of love...

ETA: Then Casey disposes of body in woods and goes on to just live her life in a way to say to Cindy, "Done. Whatcha gonna do now?" Again, just pure imagination because sometimes I hear all the lies from all of them and I don't hear any love!!