SC - Paul Murdaugh, 22 and mom Margaret, 52, found shot to death, Islandton, 7 June 2021 #12

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The exhumation of GS seem to me to be the last step in preparing a case against AM. If the exhumation concludes that the pattern of injuries is not consistent with an accidental fall ( no wrist or arm injuries etc.) then that defense argument is greatly weakened.
It seems to me now, that they are tying up loose ends.
It seems to me that reliance on witness statements would be very problematic for LE, no one in the area would have dared to testify against AM as to times or places because they would risk their jobs and homes etc. as would their families.
LE has to back everything up with irrefutable independent facts.MOO MOO MOO
 
LetsSolvIt said:
snipped> “Paul is said to have been shot at close range, and Maggie, as she was running.” [BBM]

Don't think I have before read in MSM that Maggie was running.

I found the wording of these facts interesting, too:

snipped> “No one knows the exact time of death, though it was estimated to be around 9 to 10 p.m., from about twilight to total darkness.

“The two weapons used in the killings have not been found, sources have said.”


snipped> “SLED hasn’t commented on whether its investigation includes gun shot residue, DNA, spatter, footprints, fingerprints, cellphone location records and the like. The night of the killings it rained, possibly perhaps complicating the gathering of evidence at the scene.

“Paul and Maggie being killed with two different kinds of weapons also poses a special problem, said [Jack] Swerling, a Columbia criminal defense lawyer.

“‘Police are going to have to place those weapons in the hands of somebody, or two people,’ Swerling said. ‘It’s possible that one person used two different weapons. But it’s more probable that there were two different people involved.’”

Read more at: https://www.thestate.com/news/local/crime/article262082872.html#storylink=cpy
Click to expand...

Both weapon’s missing? Maybe that was reason for trip to mom’s. Could be why the search of the river. If I remember at at point in the recorded calls from jail one was AM telling BM ? To see about getting the gun/s back.

If anyone should have been looking over their shoulder for payback of wrong doings it should have been AM, not MM and PM.

Jmo
 
Now that we are one year from the deaths of Paul and Maggie, and I'm still stunned with the news that drips out, I keep asking myself how much dirtier can AM be? This guy is so evil! And he has transferred his schemes to the jail he's incarcerated in. He will never change and I hope he's confined to solitary confinement for the rest of his miserable life.

I admire Maggie's family so much, their silence through this has been amazing. JMO
 
bestill said:
Now that we are one year from the deaths of Paul and Maggie, and I'm still stunned with the news that drips out, I keep asking myself how much dirtier can AM be? This guy is so evil! And he has transferred his schemes to the jail he's incarcerated in. He will never change and I hope he's confined to solitary confinement for the rest of his miserable life.

I admire Maggie's family so much, their silence through this has been amazing. JMO
Click to expand...
Yes, I would say Maggie’s family is a class act and God knows they must be suffering. I wish them comfort and peace.

One year. Unbelievable what we have learned. Maggie and Paul, May you Rest In Peace.

Mallory, Gloria, and Stephen, may you also find Justice.
 
In my thinking about the new information, I think Paul arrived at Moselle without his parents noticing him. I think he started videoing them because they were arguing, about the affair or a divorce or money…there were a lot of choices.
I think Alex had the shotgun in his hands and maybe things got real heated or maybe Alex threatened Maggie and Paul grabbed a rifle nearby and stepped out and told Alex he needed to leave and Alex shot him with the shotgun.( This would explain the statement in the article that said Maggie “froze”, then ran.)
As Maggie was running away, Alex picked up the rifle Paul had carried out and shot her multiple times. Then walked up and shot her in the back of the head.
He took Maggie’s phone because he thought there could be something on it incriminating to him. He didn’t take Paul’s because he didn’t know he had videoed anything.
Alex tossed Maggie’s phone because he couldn’t open it to check things. It was located the next day not because Alex wanted it found but his brothers and Buster did.
I still think important evidence they have is GPS of Maggie and Alex’s phones riding around together for awhile after the murders.
 
I wish that I could share in the excitement and anticipation but I was reading some cold case stats yesterday that puts a cloud over this for me. I still carry a negative view of SLED just from the log of unsolved murders they are in charge of here in my little rural county. Maybe these steady drips to FITs mean something but my expectations remain dim.
 
LetsSolvIt said:
Another question: did you all pick up on the detail that Alex had also called his father while he was driving back to Moselle. Wonder if that is significant? MOO

Some of us have wondered whether a father would ever assist his son in a matter like this. Only my musings. MOO.
Click to expand...

Oh I remember, in the very beginning, I was feeling soooo certain that the father was behind the murders. With so much time elapsed, those feelings get softer since his death. But I'm still thinking that he was in the know.
 
I feel that Maggie was getting more info to do AM in... and Old Dad knew it too. My guess is that if Maggie resisted to get together with AM, she wanted Paul there to help or record whatever it was she was afraid of. I actually doubt that she thought her life was in danger though. My guess is that Paul surprised AM, and that is why he shot him. And then, had to shoot Maggie too. I remember hearing on AM's 911 call, screeching something like "Paul you didn't need to be here" (I know those are not the exact words). So I have always thought, that if AM did these murders solo.... Paul was a surprise.
 
nhmemorymaker said:
Isn't the blood splatter new information?
Click to expand...

No, that info came out in late April.


Also, this is a good listen ‎The Murdaugh Family Murders: Impact of Influence: 53: Former FBI Agent Shares His Theory On The Murders on Apple Podcasts

This was my take after listening to that former FBI agent's breakdown

As the former FBI person stated on that podcast, the spatter could theoretically be caused by aspiration but a good forensic examiner would be able to differentiate between the two. I've seen nothing to suggest either MM or PM were aspirating with AM trying to assist. Didn't look good for AM before and certainly doesn't look any better now.

What defense would he have left? What about that the bad people he owed money to or bad dealings with executed them in front of AM to send a message and threatened to kill him if he told the police the truth? The former FBI agent now believes that AM wasn't the shooter. So, why be present? He would have had to have been within 36" for the spatter. That's pretty damn close if you're not pulling the trigger. Did they have all 3 next to each other and execute both of them in front of him? (it's not an uncommon tactic among ruthless groups) Obviously, we're seeing reports that he lured here there. Was this to save his own life? So many possibilities but that alibi doesn't seem so "ironclad"
 
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StarryStarryNight said:
In my thinking about the new information, I think Paul arrived at Moselle without his parents noticing him. I think he started videoing them because they were arguing, about the affair or a divorce or money…there were a lot of choices.
I think Alex had the shotgun in his hands and maybe things got real heated or maybe Alex threatened Maggie and Paul grabbed a rifle nearby and stepped out and told Alex he needed to leave and Alex shot him with the shotgun.( This would explain the statement in the article that said Maggie “froze”, then ran.)
As Maggie was running away, Alex picked up the rifle Paul had carried out and shot her multiple times. Then walked up and shot her in the back of the head.
He took Maggie’s phone because he thought there could be something on it incriminating to him. He didn’t take Paul’s because he didn’t know he had videoed anything.
Alex tossed Maggie’s phone because he couldn’t open it to check things. It was located the next day not because Alex wanted it found but his brothers and Buster did.
I still think important evidence they have is GPS of Maggie and Alex’s phones riding around together for awhile after the murders.
Click to expand...
Remember the TOD is an estimate. They can’t give exact TOD with no witnesses.
The video at the kennels was probably of the dog that was injured. Paul took video to send to his friend, and his parents were present and talking on the video, perhaps handling the dog.
This video is likely what they are using to establish TOD. If it was filmed shortly before 9 PM, they know Maggie and Paul were alive at that time.
Remember that JMM said Paul had a dinner date at Moselle, and worked in the dove fields Monday evenings while the caretaker was off.
Knowing that coupled with the fact that Alex claimed he’d come home from the hospital, taken a nap, and did not see Maggie or Paul before leaving for his mom’s, shows Alex lied. He not only knew they’d be at Moselle (and may have even eaten with them), but he definitely was with them and interacting with them before they were murdered.
Also keep in mind Alex had Maggie’s code to unlock her phone. When her phone was discovered, SLED got the passcode from Alex and it was unlocked on the scene. No one knew Paul’s passcode, and that’s why it took so long for investigators to get into his phone and see what was on it.
 
So If true that she wanted a divorce and she was lured there and PM was there without AM knowledge, this going on days after AM failed to provide financial info and days before the next meeting on the matter.
Now we have RM dying and being hospitalized.

While AM & MM are married what would she have gained (daught in law) with RM’s death.

Jmo
 
Antimony said:
"The statement in the article that said Maggie “froze”, then ran."
How do they know this?

The blood spatter on Alex's clothes will sea the deal.
Anybody heard from Cousin Eddie?
Click to expand...
I am thinking it must be on a video. Probably Paul’s before he was felled or maybe a video camera somewhere of which we have no knowledge.
 
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StarryStarryNight said:
In my thinking about the new information, I think Paul arrived at Moselle without his parents noticing him. I think he started videoing them because they were arguing, about the affair or a divorce or money…there were a lot of choices.
I think Alex had the shotgun in his hands and maybe things got real heated or maybe Alex threatened Maggie and Paul grabbed a rifle nearby and stepped out and told Alex he needed to leave and Alex shot him with the shotgun.( This would explain the statement in the article that said Maggie “froze”, then ran.)
As Maggie was running away, Alex picked up the rifle Paul had carried out and shot her multiple times. Then walked up and shot her in the back of the head.
He took Maggie’s phone because he thought there could be something on it incriminating to him. He didn’t take Paul’s because he didn’t know he had videoed anything.
Alex tossed Maggie’s phone because he couldn’t open it to check things. It was located the next day not because Alex wanted it found but his brothers and Buster did.
I still think important evidence they have is GPS of Maggie and Alex’s phones riding around together for awhile after the murders.
Click to expand...
This seems to me a very good explanation based on what we know!! It answers the two guns, why Paul would video, etc.

Good going!!
 
LetsSolvIt said:
This seems to me a very good explanation based on what we know!! It answers the two guns, why Paul would video, etc.

Good going!!
Click to expand...

That scenario also explains Alex muttering on the 911 call “Paul why did you have to get involved”.
I’m thinking Alex lured Maggie to Moselle to threaten her(We found out a few months back Murdaughs didn’t divorce, wives were just supposed to put up with their husbands antics) but not necessarily to kill her, but things escalated quickly, maybe due to Alex’s drug use.

MerryB said:
Remember the TOD is an estimate. They can’t give exact TOD with no witnesses.
The video at the kennels was probably of the dog that was injured. Paul took video to send to his friend, and his parents were present and talking on the video, perhaps handling the dog.
This video is likely what they are using to establish TOD. If it was filmed shortly before 9 PM, they know Maggie and Paul were alive at that time.
Remember that JMM said Paul had a dinner date at Moselle, and worked in the dove fields Monday evenings while the caretaker was off.
Knowing that coupled with the fact that Alex claimed he’d come home from the hospital, taken a nap, and did not see Maggie or Paul before leaving for his mom’s, shows Alex lied. He not only knew they’d be at Moselle (and may have even eaten with them), but he definitely was with them and interacting with them before they were murdered.
Also keep in mind Alex had Maggie’s code to unlock her phone. When her phone was discovered, SLED got the passcode from Alex and it was unlocked on the scene. No one knew Paul’s passcode, and that’s why it took so long for investigators to get into his phone and see what was on it.
Click to expand...

It’s all just my speculation, but the article, and previous information, specifically said that Paul worked that day at his uncle’s equipment store and had supper with his family at their home in Okatie. He was due in Moselle that evening sometime.
I see the video on Paul’s phone differently I guess. I see him intentionally recording his parent’s argument not catching them accidentally while recording a dog. Either way it doesn’t stop him from intervening to ask his dad to leave. It does most definitely catch Alex in a lie about the timeline as you said.
I thought Buster provided the passcode to Maggie’s phone. I’ll check on that.
 
StarryStarryNight said:
That scenario also explains Alex muttering on the 911 call “Paul why did you have to get involved”.
I’m thinking Alex lured Maggie to Moselle to threaten her(We found out a few months back Murdaughs didn’t divorce, wives were just supposed to put up with their husbands antics) but not necessarily to kill her, but things escalated quickly, maybe due to Alex’s drug use.



It’s all just my speculation, but the article, and previous information, specifically said that Paul worked that day at his uncle’s equipment store and had supper with his family at their home in Okatie. He was due in Moselle that evening sometime.
I see the video on Paul’s phone differently I guess. I see him intentionally recording his parent’s argument not catching them accidentally while recording a dog. Either way it doesn’t stop him from intervening to ask his dad to leave. It does most definitely catch Alex in a lie about the timeline as you said.
I thought Buster provided the passcode to Maggie’s phone. I’ll check on that.
Click to expand...

…

Asked about the photos this month, John Marvin Murdaugh said they show him and the investigators trying to find Maggie Murdaugh’s cell phone using an app on Maggie’s remaining son Buster Murdaugh’s phone.


John Marvin Murdaugh said he was sitting inside the house on the Moselle property and asked Alex Murdaugh if he could ping Maggie’s phone. Buster, he said, told him that he and his mother shared locations with each other and he could ping it.

Marvin Murdaugh drove down to the crime scene to a group of investigators and told them that Maggie’s phone was active and could be tracked, he said.

The photographs were taken when he and the investigators were looking at Buster’s phone and began walking toward where Maggie’s phone was located, he said. The group soon realized that the phone was further away, so they drove together and found it “east of the gates” of the property, he said.

Murdaugh said he called either Alex or Buster (he said he thinks it was Alex) and asked them for the password to Maggie’s phone so investigators could unlock it.
 
nhmemorymaker said:
I feel that Maggie was getting more info to do AM in... and Old Dad knew it too. My guess is that if Maggie resisted to get together with AM, she wanted Paul there to help or record whatever it was she was afraid of. I actually doubt that she thought her life was in danger though. My guess is that Paul surprised AM, and that is why he shot him. And then, had to shoot Maggie too. I remember hearing on AM's 911 call, screeching something like "Paul you didn't need to be here" (I know those are not the exact words). So I have always thought, that if AM did these murders solo.... Paul was a surprise.
Click to expand...
bolded added
That's new news to me.
I've been following this case but mostly just catching up reading here.
The exhumation of the nanny will hopefully provide more details for her family .
RIP to the victims.
What a sad case. :(
 
StarryStarryNight said:
That scenario also explains Alex muttering on the 911 call “Paul why did you have to get involved”.
I’m thinking Alex lured Maggie to Moselle to threaten her(We found out a few months back Murdaughs didn’t divorce, wives were just supposed to put up with their husbands antics) but not necessarily to kill her, but things escalated quickly, maybe due to Alex’s drug use.



It’s all just my speculation, but the article, and previous information, specifically said that Paul worked that day at his uncle’s equipment store and had supper with his family at their home in Okatie. He was due in Moselle that evening sometime.
I see the video on Paul’s phone differently I guess. I see him intentionally recording his parent’s argument not catching them accidentally while recording a dog. Either way it doesn’t stop him from intervening to ask his dad to leave. It does most definitely catch Alex in a lie about the timeline as you said.
I thought Buster provided the passcode to Maggie’s phone. I’ll check on that.
Click to expand...
Liz has stated on Twitter that the recording on Paul’s phone does not capture murder or any precursor to murder. That’s where I’m coming up with a scenario like videoing the injured dog. That’s my own conjecture of a reason why he might video his parents at the kennels.
JMM stated on the Impact of Influence podcast that Paul was going to Moselle for family dinner and to work in the dove fields on the evening of the murders. He also stated on the same podcast (different episode) that he used an app on Buster’s phone to find Maggie’s phone with investigators. They called Alex for the passcode and were able to unlock it at the scene.
 
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