SIDEBAR #12- Arias/Alexander forum

[aa9511]

What I wish Juan would do this time is talk about the sex and the fact that practically all the information they're getting is from CMJA aka Liar herself.

- For example, how do we know when they started having sex? Obviously they couldn't physically have it a lot until she moved to Mesa. Also, Travis could have waited it out a while...so for all we know the total duration of their sex life could have been very minimal. All we have is her "word" on when they began. It could have been short and not enough time for any emotional "abuse" to happen.

- How do we know that in fact vaginal sex was "banned" and how do we know they had anal sex more often? I believe the actual instances of anal sex are far fewer than CMJA makes them out to be....alas, it suits her case to trump it up. I believe they probably only had anal sex a few times, just like with Bobby and Darryl.
- Travis was smart enough to realize that anal sex would somehow be "ok" in terms of their religion, but not vaginal sex. That makes no sense. He doens't seem like the type who wouldn't realize that. I don't believe CMJA's version that he tried to convince her of that.
- If Travis knew the consequences in their religion for anal sex, and he did it anyway, he would have done vaginal sex too. In fact he had probably already done it with DeAnna.
- The only semi-proven accounts of anal sex are the June 4 sex pics and his reference to anal sex on the phone sex tape. June 4 doesn't surprise me that CMJA would have wanted anal sex - she obviously took everything to the "extreme" that day. It would not surprise me considering the state of mind she was in that day.
It doesn't surprise me that Travis would speak about anal sex on the sex tape even though they might not have actually had it many times, maybe once or twice before. Reason is that anal sex seems more "exciting" to talk about on a sex tape. The sex tape was about fantasy and excitement. Also, if they didn't have it often, would lead all the more to the "excitement" factor of it.


I think Juan needs to stop CMJA from pretending like they had this turbulent and tumultuous relationship. Because it wasn't. The only turbulent part of it was CMJA.
The only other accounts of anal sex and how much they had it are from CMJA's mouth, which cannot be believed and should be noted that she would highly exxagerate.

 

[katiecoolady]

One of my favorite songs of all time...never heard this version...

Thanks KCL honeypot...

OMG who is that adorable little doggie in the window mon Cherie?

 

[neesaki]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=27Tj-Xo_eqI

What a great video. I've always loved this song, but have never seen him perform. What a talent.

 

[Kensie]

Kensie, I totally agree. I also thought it was just an excuse, but then I hear more and more that they actually believed "abuse>" Juror 6 said the 4 "strongly felt" that there was emotional and verbal abuse.

It is so mind boggling to me that anyone could even say there was abuse based on a few texts. I just don't get it. I wonder why the question wasn't asked what made Travis so mad on 5/26. Maybe it was asked and I don't remember. I just don't get it. She went to him - he did not go to her.
Anyway, I guess I will never understand the 4 jurors that thought there was abuse.
Can't people say stuff when they are really upset about something. I just don't get it.

 

[SyraKelly]

What a good song


[video=youtube;IUb3HjFEq6Y]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IUb3HjFEq6Y[/video]

 

[VivianVance]

Fleetwood Mac/My Little DemonI


Three Hours to show time !!!!!!!!:rockon:[/QUOTE

cubbee, the link didn't work but I'll post it for you - have a BLAST!!!
[video=youtube;tnV6PdZXwDg]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tnV6PdZXwDg[/video]

eta: sorry, somehow I messed up the quote function

 

[cubbeegirl]

[video=youtube;dKqxzx6tKio]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dKqxzx6tKio[/video]


Three hours to showtime !!!!!:rockon:

 

[marlap]

I think Arias is very well aware of what she has done and is delighted at the control she possesses. Not only over Travis' destiny but her ability to still control his family's life by refusing to tell them the real truth about what happened to their brother.

Yes...and she enjoys torturing them still...all the little digs during her allocation about being a DM abuse survivor....dig, dig, dig...

She's not only evil, she's MEAN...if that makes any sense

 

[marlap]

OMG who is that adorable little doggie in the window mon Cherie?

Elle est ma chien petite...Mimi...

She's 12 and a half now but still very active and healthy. I'm very lucky...

I wuv her soooo much!

 

[Bernina]

I like your potato / shepard's pie analogy... good one!

And believe me, I think ALV is as kooky as the day is long... and that definitely came thru on the stand. Samuels came across as a joke too.

I agree with you wholeheartedly that DeMarte had clear, concise information, and was more reputable than the defense witnesses.

My main point really was more about the trickiness of discussing mental illnesses during a trial. You never know how the jury is going to process and apply that information. The DeMarte comment was more of a side note. I saw so many comments on the board of how people totally fell in love with her, and I thought she was good, but just wasn't as enthralled like everybody else.

At the end of the day, to your point, she obviously was effective for the verdict (thank god) and that's really all that matters. As to how this all plays out for a sentence, is yet to be seen.

The defense was putting on "feel good entertainment/comedy and warm fuzzies", while the prosecution was putting on "facts, and nothing but the facts". And I'm serious about the "comedy" part, of course only when I was not growling at ALV or Samuels. "Say WHAT?" became part of my vocabulary watching those 2 on the stand :facepalm:

 

[marlap]

OMG-Here we go people


The Manhattan-Lets just kiss and say goodbye. - YouTube

Ooooo. Ooo. Ooo
Love that song! Dayum, that man has a voice!


Here's another good one....Peabo!

[video=youtube;IlLbz0aD-eQ]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IlLbz0aD-eQ[/video]

 

[TorisMom003]

One of my favorites

[video=youtube;6UD0c58nNCQ]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6UD0c58nNCQ[/video]

 

[Frigga]

I don't blame you...I loved smoking. Unfortunately, adult onset asthma really helped with my resolve. My Dr. Said adult onset asthma isn't very common.

I just saw the best documentary about nuns! Delores Hart....God is the Bigger Elvis....

How wonderful to live a live of pure service and reflection!

ETA. Jeremy Irons and Fran Lebowitz say the same thing you do...they love to smoke and don't want to quit

Loved, loved, loved God Is The Bigger Elvis! Fantastic documentary.

My brother used to say the same thing as Lebowitz and Irons. His boyfriend begged him to quit and then threatened to kill him- if he didn't start again! He was such a biotch to live with through withdrawal's apparently!

 

[YESorNO]

Here's some back ground on me: My dad is BPD, Antisocial, and Narcissist, my 2nd ex is Bi-polar, PTSD, Paranoid Schizophrenic with psychotic tendencies, Panic Disorder, my current BF is PTSD, Panic Disorder, Bi-polar, and I am 23 years diagnosed PTSD, Chronic Depression, and Panic Disorder. SMI: Severely mentally ill.
Para-Schizo usually appears in young males between 17 and 25 years of age. Family members and friends will notice that they are just a tad "off", like their just not on the same page. In many cases, the individual will start self medicating with alcohol and/or drugs (which can cause psychotic manifestations) because "reality" is not quite making sense, they here sounds, voices, "things" in their head and in their surroundings. They slowly withdraw from society, friends, school, family. They found ominous "messages" in newspapers, books, billboards, or just a casual conversation and run with it. They can take one part of an experience or story of another person and create an entire different reality out of it. They become obsessed with something or someone in particular, and they can relate EVERYTHING in their reality to that obsession. The obsession becomes a "mission". Good and Evil play heavily into it as they start becoming psychotic. They become a "savior", "messenger", or "character" and become totally absorbed into it.
Holmes started to become reclusive, he cut off all ties with his support system (other people), he became secretive, he dropped out of school, his responses to peers were nonsensical, he became obsessed with a movie/comic book, he "became" the character "Joker" and in his state of reality "believed" he was, in fact, the Joker. And he created a "mission". His "right and wrong" became his own, not that of Social norms.
Jared Loughner followed the same pattern, only his was the Government and Gabby Gifford. He took on the persona of "Savior".
Medication stabilizes them to a somewhat normal reality. I don't think Holmes should ever be released. Para/Schizo patients commonly quit taking their meds due to the side effects, they start self medicating, or because they feel better and don't think they need them, and they snowball back into the illness.
My 2nd ex went psychotic ANNUALLY, due to quitting his meds or self medicating. Then the police would come, title him out and he'd spend 72 hours in the Nut Hut getting back on his meds and being evaluated. He had ALL the symptoms of a blooming Para/Schizo by the time he was 17, but his mom IGNORED them because of the social stigma. (for God's sake, the woman was a Social Worker who did intake on teens and pre-teens for Psych issues!)
Seriously, I could write a novel on all I experienced with my dad and my 2nd ex, but I can usually read just the history of most of these so called "crazy killers" from 15 on and there are markers that just scream Para/Schizo.
I wouldn't even want to touch the Newton situation. That boy's mother was either totally oblivious or in complete denial, and telling neighbors her son had Aspergers was unconscionable.
Going to chill.........this just gets me worked up because many of these tragedies could have been avoided if parents would damn the social stigma and get their kids help when they see something "not quite right". :moo:

Jeez, you've had a hard life :hug:

My younger son has ADD (not as bad as all the problems you mentioned, tho'). When he was in the 4th grade, his teachers said that he was falling behind in class because of his attention- or non- attention. My husband would not consider that HIS son had a problem, but I always knew something was "wrong" with younger son. I cried all the time and felt so helpless. What made my husband change his mind was the testing the school did. They gave him an IQ test and he tested as developmentally disabled- which wasn't correct (he just couldn't concentrate). He is very intelligent and was retested after he saw a neurologist and received meds- he has an IQ of 132. His attention was the problem and my husband finally agreed. What got me was that my MIL also knew "something was wrong" with younger son and told me that my husband also had "something wrong with him when he was young- ADD, but they didn't have a name for it then. I'm glad I fought so hard with my husband to get my son the help he needed. There's nothing wrong with being "different" and I think of it like having diabetes which needs meds, too. We also had my son see a child psychologist to help him with having ADD (which he hates having, but I think he has come to terms with). He's such a good person and has done so much with his education- what comes relatively easy to some students, my son has struggled with, but he's going to get his masters. :blushing:
I really believe in getting help for your children, no matter what kind of help it is. It's being a good parent.

 

[Bernina]

If they can get those words "psychopath" admitted to trial via DeMarte, with specific test data and further explanation of what that means vs. clinically insane... that is a winner for a sentence, IMO.

I think more people can relate to the words psychopath than they can to borderline. I don't know anybody who wants to give leniency to a psychopath.

MOO

This is what I remember, w/o going to the video, about that part of the direct:
(paraphrasing) Juan asked about where JA's score was for markers on PTSD. Demarte answered something in the low range but continued with "...but I found an above average range (or extremely high?) in Anti-Social Personality Disorder" BAM, Juan cuts her off. This was on rebuttal so he couldn't let her go there, beyond scope of PTSD in the defense's case in chief.
The object will be to connect "Antisocial Personality Disorder" with the term "psychopath" which most of us layman understand.:twocents:

 

[Mrs G Norris]

MC Superior Court ‏@courtpio 1m
Interested in high profile cases? Please visit: http://www.superiorcourt.maricopa.gov/MediaRelationsDepartment/HighProfileList/Index.asp

LOL .. I do feel for them .. Tweet should read: Stop calling us about anything Arias related, give us a break!

 

[Sulamith]

Fleetwood Mac - Silver Springs - The Dance -1997 - YouTube


Three hours to showtime !!!!!:rockon:

You going to the Houston show?? Lucky cubbeegirl! I never did see the Mac in concert but got to go to a few Stevie shows way back in 2001..Are you a member of the Nicks Fix? I was such a Stevie fan back then, my daughter and I attended The Wild Heart Affair in San Francisco 2001..The VH1 film crew was there. Have a great time!!

http://www.purplemoon.com/Stevie_Nicks/WHA/Wild_Heart_Affair_2001.html

 

[marlap]

Fleetwood Mac - Silver Springs - The Dance -1997 - YouTube


Three hours to showtime !!!!!:rockon:

Have a blast Cubbeegirl!!

 

[dani]

Oh ... they know ... and they've know for quite some time! JMO

They're just introducing their new strategy - she's kookoo so how can you give her the DP. Momma and Daddy Arias along with their initial interrogation tapes will probably come into the retrial, if permitted, to support JA's longstanding kookooness. JMHO

It is so WRONG for the DT to go to the Arizona Republic, the largest circulation of newspapers in the entire state. They are attempting to INFLUENCE the new jury pool! They are SLEEZE!!! :furious:

 

[lisasalinger]

The defense was putting on "feel good entertainment/comedy and warm fuzzies", while the prosecution was putting on "facts, and nothing but the facts". And I'm serious about the "comedy" part, of course only when I was not growling at ALV or Samuels. "Say WHAT?" became part of my vocabulary watching those 2 on the stand :facepalm:

The sad thing is, every trial is a bit of a show. Testimony is rehearsed, outfits are picked, mannerisms are recommended... Both sides have some level of theatrics to pull off that can be intriguing for opinionated trial watchers like us. But I can't for the life of me imagine what it would be like for a loved one to sit and watch all of this play out like a game, while grieving for a precious life lost. Sadly, I know that many here know what that's like. My heart sincerely goes out to them!