Sources detail Terri’s timeline day Kyron disappeared #2

[Curious Me]

You're talking about what has crossed my mind before, too.

If Kyron was in that truck when TMH left the school, and she can prove she was shopping 'til 10:10, then where could Kyron possibly be during that time. Either it was a quick hand-off before shopping, or Kyron was already deceased, and yes, sadly, on the floor of the truck on the way to being hidden, or so it would seem if TMH is involved. I just can't believe TMH was able to just kill this little boy in some limited time, when she couldn't get her hands dirty when she wanted Kaine killed. A structured plan is what DY thinks it was, believing Kyron was just handed off, but nevertheless it was a plan, not an accidental thing.

Normally, I'd say this looks like it was a stupid plan, but it seems everyone is confused about everything so maybe not so stupid.

 

[human]

Well we know that the projects were not all in one area...they were spread out in various class rooms and some were in the gym.

The PTA president said that the school opened early at 8 to accomidate working parents and at 8:45 kids were broken up into groups to tour the fair.

The school was opened to the PUBLIC from 8-10, but no sign-in was required.

If the kids were due to report to their class at 8:45, but this wasn't outlined in the flyer inviting parents, what were the parents expected to do at 8:45? Were they allowed to stay at the school? Were they allowed to chaperone the kids versus the kids joining the tours? If that is the case, how would the teachers know what kids were being chaperoned by their parents and which would be with the teachers. Seems like a pretty important detail while the school was opened to the public and had potentially hundreds of unaffiliated adults roaming the school.

Whatever...the flyer (if I recall correctly) did not mention the tours. If Kyron wanted to join the tour, why would Terri stay?

I feel strongly that school started at the same time as it always did. The buses arrived at 8:35. I seriously doubt that the bus schedules of Portland public schools were changed because of a science fair.

The schools in my district start at different times. The reason is so the bus drivers can pick up the early school children, drop them off. and then pick up the children who go to school later.

This saves money on buying school buses and on hiring bus drivers.

As strapped as Portland Public schools are, I cannot believe that they don't use a system such as this. If not, they should consider it.

The schools in my state are so strapped, that some have gone to the 4 day school week.

So I do not for one minute believe that the children did not report to their classrooms at 8:45 and parents toured wherever and whenever they wanted to until 10 AM.

If the teacher marked Kyron absent at 10, that is perhaps the time that she entered the absence into a computer system such as the one we have in our schools. If they do not have a computer system, perhaps that is the time a student helper picked up the absence lists.

That is how it was done in our schools until we got a system on the computer, maybe 5 years ago?

 

[BringKyronHome]

My middle daughter who is 33 developed ear infections when she was in her teens. She had them until a couple of months ago when she figured out how to cure them.

She puts hydrogen peroxide in them and I forget the rest of what she said.

She was not a happy camper with those ear aches and she is an adult who could do things right away for them.

Maybe I am overly sensitive about them because of my daughter, but an earache freaks me out because of her experiences.

Also, as a teacher, Terri would know that the prime age for language development is up to age 4.

If children suffer from intermittent ear problems, it impacts their ability to learn language and would impact reading, which she claims is her specialty.

Those are other reasons that her actions with a baby with an earache surprise me.

I would make darn sure that the baby wasn't having ear issues if I was a reading specialist.

That plus this isn't her first kid. She calls it an earache not an ear infection...this is why I am assuming she had distinguished it somehow.

I'm assuming she did, you are apparently assuming she did not.

Suppose the infection was ruled out, then what do you think?

Suppose it was established the ache was related to teeth, then what would you think?

Suppose it was established that it was related to a head cold, then what would you think?

Suppose it was established to be related to an infection that K was already on antibiotics for, then what would you think?

We don't have all the info, but if she was looking for an alibi, wouldn't you think a trip to the doc would be a good one? Apparently she didn't need to go there for either K or the alibi...

 

[BringKyronHome]

I feel strongly that school started at the same time as it always did. The buses arrived at 8:35. I seriously doubt that the bus schedules of Portland public schools were changed because of a science fair.

The schools in my district start at different times. The reason is so the bus drivers can pick up the early school children, drop them off. and then pick up the children who go to school later.

This saves money on buying school buses and on hiring bus drivers.

As strapped as Portland Public schools are, I cannot believe that they don't use a system such as this. If not, they should consider it.

The schools in my state are so strapped, that some have gone to the 4 day school week.

So I do not for one minute believe that the children did not report to their classrooms at 8:45 and parents toured wherever and whenever they wanted to until 10 AM.

If the teacher marked Kyron absent at 10, that is perhaps the time that she entered the absence into a computer system such as the one we have in our schools. If they do not have a computer system, perhaps that is the time a student helper picked up the absence lists.

That is how it was done in our schools until we got a system on the computer, maybe 5 years ago?

I agree.

So now explain why the fair was opened to the public until 10. And why the parents were invited to attend until 10.

 

[human]

That plus this isn't her first kid. She calls it an earache not an ear infection...this is why I am assuming she had distinguished it somehow.

I'm assuming she did, you are apparently assuming she did not.

Suppose the infection was ruled out, then what do you think?

Suppose it was established the ache was related to teeth, then what would you think?

Suppose it was established that it was related to a head cold, then what would you think?

Suppose it was established to be related to an infection that K was already on antibiotics for, then what would you think?

We don't have all the info, but if she was looking for an alibi, wouldn't you think a trip to the doc would be a good one? Apparently she didn't need to go there for either K or the alibi...

1. How could anyone but a doc figure out what an ear problem is?

2. My youngest grand daughter had an ear problem. But no one knew it. It was her speech that tipped my daughter off. There were too many speech error sounds. No ear infections ever.

My ear infection daughter brought my granddaughter to doctors. She finally brought her to a specialist who did a further test and discovered that she had hearing loss due to fluid. It was the further test that other doctors had not done.

3. If K was on antibiotics, I would be REALLY concerned.

My daughter went through antibiotics that did not work. She was terrified that doctors would not find one that worked. I was terrified because of so much antibiotic resistance because of the overuse of antibiotics.

The ears are by the brain. Deep trouble!

 

[human]

I agree.

So now explain why the fair was opened to the public until 10. And why the parents were invited to attend until 10.

I don't understand your question.

The fairs at my school are open all day. I imagine that the parents could be in the gym or in their personal child's classroom waiting until the tour begins.

I doubt the Portland Public schools are any different than my school district. Parents can come to their child's classroom any day and stay all day if they wish.

I used to have parents in my classroom a lot about 15 years ago, but things have changed a lot. People are very busy nowadays.

I don't think most teachers like it, but the school does not own anyone's child.

 

[BringKyronHome]

1. How could anyone but a doc figure out what an ear problem is?

2. My youngest grand daughter had an ear problem. But no one knew it. It was her speech that tipped my daughter off. There were too many speech error sounds. No ear infections ever.

My ear infection daughter brought my granddaughter to doctors. She finally brought her to a specialist who did a further test and discovered that she had hearing loss due to fluid. It was the further test that other doctors had not done.

3. If K was on antibiotics, I would be REALLY concerned.

My daughter went through antibiotics that did not work. She was terrified that doctors would not find one that worked. I was terrified because of so much antibiotic resistance because of the overuse of antibiotics.

The ears are by the brain. Deep trouble!

My gosh, what in the world are you thinking...

What if she DID see the doc. Or what if she called the doc and was told NOT to bring her in unless she had a fever...that since she (perhaps) was teething and had no fever to manage it with oregel...or something similar.

What if she was into the doc a few days earlier and it was established as an infection and it was just a matter of the infection breaking before the fussiness would subside...and she was in that time frame.

I am going to further assume that K was not screaming as if she was in unbareable pain...because if that was the case, I'm pretty sure a car ride would not have helped to relax her.

I'm going to further assume that she DID infact get some much needed rest, since she was apparently playing peacefully when Kaine got home.

 

[BringKyronHome]

I don't understand your question.

The fairs at my school are open all day. I imagine that the parents could be in the gym or in their personal child's classroom waiting until the tour begins.

I doubt the Portland Public schools are any different than my school district. Parents can come to their child's classroom any day and stay all day if they wish.

I used to have parents in my classroom a lot about 15 years ago, but things have changed a lot. People are very busy nowadays.

I don't think most teachers like it, but the school does not own anyone's child.

But this wasn't the random parent showing up, this was likely 1-2 parents for each of the nearly 300 children that attended the school. There could have been 400+ adults there. Plus it was open to the PUBLIC not only open to parents.

So are you saying that all these adults would have been free to simply mill about the school while the kids were touring?

I'm just thinking, if I showed up expecting to participate inthe fair with my child from 8-10, then perhas be able to take his project with me when I left. Then was told about a tour that he was expected to join at 8:45, I wouldn't have hung around...especially if my other kid was fussy.

But in HIND SIGHT...if that same kid had gone missing, I'd be pretty dang curious what all the other adults chose to do...and I'd certainly want to know how the school supervised the children during that time...

It seems like if a parent was allowed to stay until 10 that perhaps it might be optional to tour with your parent or with the teacher...but how would that be coordinated? Did Mrs P think Terri was escorting K, when infact Terri was expecting Mrs P to escort him? How many other kids had a similar situation?

Or was it jsut that the kids were moving through all the classes & hallways side by side with hundreds of adults no affiliated with the school?

 

[human]

My gosh, what in the world are you thinking...

What if she DID see the doc. Or what if she called the doc and was told NOT to bring her in unless she had a fever...that since she (perhaps) was teething and had no fever to manage it with oregel...or something similar.

What if she was into the doc a few days earlier and it was established as an infection and it was just a matter of the infection breaking before the fussiness would subside...and she was in that time frame.

I am going to further assume that K was not screaming as if she was in unbareable pain...because if that was the case, I'm pretty sure a car ride would not have helped to relax her.

I'm going to further assume that she DID infact get some much needed rest, since she was apparently playing peacefully when Kaine got home.

I am thinking as a teacher myself, that ear problems are a huge problem. They impact children's learning in every way.

Speech, language, and then consequently every subject.

That is why in my state, children cannot get special education help under age 5 unless they have 2 areas out of three. The three areas are speech and language, fine and gross motor, and cognitive.

In my state, speech and language stand on their own . In other words, if a child has a cognitive issue, no help. Fine or gross motor-no help. A child would have to have both cognitive and motor issues in order to get help for those.

Of course, one can see if insurance will pay for it privately. But as a free public school help=no. Our schools serve starting at birth, although not in a school until age 3.

Anyway, my point is how important speech and language are considered to be in my state. And hearing is the basis for speech and language, something that a reading specialist as Terri would know.

 

[BringKyronHome]

I am thinking as a teacher myself, that ear problems are a huge problem. They impact children's learning in every way.

Speech, language, and then consequently every subject.

That is why in my state, children cannot get special education help under age 5 unless they have 2 areas out of three. The three areas are speech and language, fine and gross motor, and cognitive.

In my state, speech and language stand on their own . In other words, if a child has a cognitive issue, no help. Fine or gross motor-no help. A child would have to have both cognitive and motor issues in order to get help for those.

Of course, one can see if insurance will pay for it privately. But as a free public school help=no. Our schools serve starting at birth, although not in a school until age 3.

Anyway, my point is how important speech and language are considered to be in my state. And hearing is the basis for speech and language, something that a reading specialist as Terri would know.

Absolutely. So I'm thinking that she managed it appropriately for that fact AND because this wasn't her fisrt time around the block either.

 

[JenB]

I agree, human. I'm a mother to 4 and I take them to the dr. for an earache. Just that simple. I'm sure plenty of parents do it differently but coming from my perspective, Terri's actions make no sense if she believed K had an earache.

But I don't believe that was the case, of course.

Antibiotics provide relief for an earache pretty quickly. I think within 24 hours. I feel like we'd have heard about Baby K's trip to the dr. for antibiotics if it had happened on Wednesday or Thursday before Kyron disappeared.

 

[Emeralgem]

My gosh, what in the world are you thinking...

What if she DID see the doc. Or what if she called the doc and was told NOT to bring her in unless she had a fever...that since she (perhaps) was teething and had no fever to manage it with oregel...or something similar.

What if she was into the doc a few days earlier and it was established as an infection and it was just a matter of the infection breaking before the fussiness would subside...and she was in that time frame.

I am going to further assume that K was not screaming as if she was in unbareable pain...because if that was the case, I'm pretty sure a car ride would not have helped to relax her.

I'm going to further assume that she DID infact get some much needed rest, since she was apparently playing peacefully when Kaine got home.

And I am going to assume her alibi for driving around rural roads for an hour and a half because her child had an earache is a CROCK....JMO

 

[human]

But this wasn't the random parent showing up, this was likely 1-2 parents for each of the nearly 300 children that attended the school. There could have been 400+ adults there. Plus it was open to the PUBLIC not only open to parents.

So are you saying that all these adults would have been free to simply mill about the school while the kids were touring?

I'm just thinking, if I showed up expecting to participate inthe fair with my child from 8-10, then perhas be able to take his project with me when I left. Then was told about a tour that he was expected to join at 8:45, I wouldn't have hung around...especially if my other kid was fussy.

But in HIND SIGHT...if that same kid had gone missing, I'd be pretty dang curious what all the other adults chose to do...and I'd certainly want to know how the school supervised the children during that time...

It seems like if a parent was allowed to stay until 10 that perhaps it might be optional to tour with your parent or with the teacher...but how would that be coordinated? Did Mrs P think Terri was escorting K, when infact Terri was expecting Mrs P to escort him? How many other kids had a similar situation?

Or was it jsut that the kids were moving through all the classes & hallways side by side with hundreds of adults no affiliated with the school?

I have no idea what Skyline would do, but as a teacher of 30 years, there is no way that children would be wandering around by themselves. Hence, the chaperons who led the groups.

Perhaps a child could tour with his/her own child after clearing it with the teacher and the teacher explaining the rules of when the child was expected to be back in the classroom.

I don't see any issue with a parent touring with the child. Remember, Terri was well known with Kyron's teacher having volunteered there.

What Terri said and when Terri talked to the teacher is under confusion here and part of the investigation. But I have heard nothing about Terri and her talking about touring with the class. except for Desi's comment that she thought Terri was to stay longer at the school.

 

[BringKyronHome]

I agree, human. I'm a mother to 4 and I take them to the dr. for an earache. Just that simple. I'm sure plenty of parents do it differently but coming from my perspective, Terri's actions make no sense if she believed K had an earache.

But I don't believe that was the case, of course.

Antibiotics provide relief for an earache pretty quickly. I think within 24 hours. I feel like we'd have heard about Baby K's trip to the dr. for antibiotics if it had happened on Wednesday or Thursday before Kyron disappeared.

We haven't heard about anything.

And Terri COULD have been on the phone that morning to the doc...we just don't know.

 

[BringKyronHome]

I have no idea what Skyline would do, but as a teacher of 30 years, there is no way that children would be wandering around by themselves. Hence, the chaperons who led the groups.

Perhaps a child could tour with his/her own child after clearing it with the teacher and the teacher explaining the rules of when the child was expected to be back in the classroom.

I don't see any issue with a parent touring with the child. Remember, Terri was well known with Kyron's teacher having volunteered there.

What Terri said and when Terri talked to the teacher is under confusion here and part of the investigation. But I have heard nothing about Terri and her talking about touring with the class. except for Desi's comment that she thought Terri was to stay longer at the school.

Exactly. I saw the flyer it invited the parents to the fair 8-10. My recollection is that it did not mention the tours at all.

 

[PortlandMama]

Pulling a child out of a 5-point harness carseat wakes most kids. If something is keeping that kid from resting comfortably anyway (like pain), it would be even easier...

It's likely just the difference between different parenting experiences. I spent a good deal of teething days riding around bumpy roads 'rocking' my toddlers to sleep, the bumpier the better...as soon as my car stops, never mind unbuckling them, they are awake, same thing with hitting a smooth patch...so I didn't dare stop until they had gotten enough sleep, so definatley avoided roads with lights as well.

Sleep of course is the untimate cure for the crankies...absolutely not for pain, but it does take the edge off. A child that has any sort of head pain, that cries & fusses only serves to exaggerate it...so the goal...whatever keeps them quiet...just like distraction...perhaps the ability to play with other kids with new & different toys in a fun environment that captures the attention enough to 'forget'...

In terms of the time...I'm not at all suggesting that a bumpy ride is a cure for anything, except the crankies (aka overtired). I'm not assumign she slet the entire time, we don't know if she slept at all...I'm just saying that people are assumign this driving around sounds so hoaky, when to me it sounds like the perfect nap time...even an hour would be good, perhaps it took that long for her to relax...or maybe she drove for 60 minutes before she fell aslepp and she woke so Terri decided to take her to the gym hoping the other kids would wear her out enough for her to sleep at home...we know nothing.

I'm jsut saying at face value, to me, it sounds totally normal, well except if you are wanting to have an alibi for that time period, well, then, it's about as good as being home by yourself napping.

BBM. And thanks. In support of your points (bolded):

My husband and I have never successfully removed a sleeping baby/toddler from a carseat (the 5-pt harness) without awakening her. Sometimes, not always, we are able to quickly coax the child back to sleep. Usually that's only if it's late at night. Naptime, forget it. If my child were feeling crummy, I would wait until the naptime was over, if at all possible.

One of my girls happily continued her nap in the driveway, engine off. (Yes, temperature appropriate, good ventilation, parent continues visual contact. :innocent But the other one was more sensitive to the car turning off. Come to think of it, they were different cars, so maybe it was more noticeable. Both have had stretches of fussiness DURING naptime in which the littlest thing produces a kind of sleep cry. A little wail and then by the time you check them in the rearview mirror, they're back asleep. I can easily imagine that keeping me driving until naptime is truly over.

Distraction (aka playing) in and of itself is a huge pain reliever for children.

Of course, we don't know if she napped. But many 18-month-olds still take a morning and afternoon nap. So that doesn't raise any alarms for me. Outside of the fact that Kyron went missing that morning, this would all sound perfectly normal if someone described it to me.

MOO.

 

[Emeralgem]

We haven't heard about anything.

And Terri COULD have been on the phone that morning to the doc...we just don't know.

I suspect IF she deemed it necesary to call the doctor that morning to tell him her daughter had an earache she would have been advised to bring the child in sometime that day..JMO

 

[Emeralgem]

Distraction (aka playing) in and of itself is a huge pain reliever for children.

I respectfully but wholeheatedly disagree... NOT when you have an earache...

 

[nosysw]

It was 8:01...the time that comes up on FB depends on what time zone the VIEWER is in. Not on what time zone the poster is in. Whoever posted that info was not in PST when they looked at/screen captured her FB

Now I'm confused...I thought she would have been at the school at 8:01 for the Science Fair...She left the school at 8:45...How long was she supposedly there?

 

[PortlandMama]

I respectfully but wholeheatedly disagree... NOT when you have an earache...

I know how painful they are, but I stand by what I said:

http://www.mayoclinic.com/health/ear-infections/DS00303/DSECTION=lifestyle-and-home-remedies

http://ent.about.com/od/pediatricentdisorders/f/week_end_ear_infection_.htm