Sources detail Terri’s timeline day Kyron disappeared #2

[PortlandMama]

Ok PM...Not trying to imply anything, but it may be time for a workout, LOL! Check it out & report back....

:angel:

For more reasons than that, lol!

 

[stmarysmead]

1. Kaine said she took baby K to school with her that morning. LE has not commented on it. The flier did not mention the baby, only a picture of the truck, TH and Kyron.

2. Baby was not home with Kaine. He was on site at work. He reportedly came home around 2:00. He kissed baby K, got something to eat and then went into his home office to work until the bus came home.

3. No babysitter has been reported.

Here's where I have trouble with the common sense of Terri's story as a Mom and (for me)now a Grandma.

As a Mom, you get your infant child up early to feed, dress, and put in the car so you can drive your step-son to school. All those preparations mean your Baby is up at least 1/2 hour. Now you make the trip to the school...travel time...and then you carry your Baby around while you take pictures of step-son and attend the Science Fair.

At 8:45, you and Baby leave and now you take her around as you run errands, in and out of the car for almost an hour and a half.

Baby starts fussing...for whatever reason.

OK...Moms...what do you do?

Take your tired little one home to her own bed... or drive around aimlessly on country roads for hours to "soothe" her?

AND then you head with a child you think doesn't feel well to the common nursery at your gym?!!!!

Poor Baby K!

After all that time, carting a Baby here and there, my first "diagnoses" would have been...she is tired and needs her nap. Needs her own bed.

I'm assuming it's this strange driving-around-for-hours-with-infant period that Terri can't account for or "remember" and the rest of the Family and LS find so odd.

Terri's story is "off."

Just my humble opinion.

 

[wondering1]

she says she can prove it but to my knowledge it hasn't been proven...

just for the record, ITA with you. I was just putting the source of the statement out there. For all we know, the *sources* could be any one from LE to TH's friends. However, the way the article says "and can prove it" suggests to me that whoever it saying this is in a defensive posture, i.e., someone close to TH

sorry sleuthygal...I can't ignore the semantics, even though I know I probably should do so more often. I'm just wired that way!

 

[human]

Here's where I have trouble with the common sense of Terri's story as a Mom and (for me)now a Grandma.

As a Mom, you get your infant child up early to feed, dress, and put in the car so you can drive your step-son to school. All those preparations mean your Baby is up at least 1/2 hour. Now you make the trip to the school...travel time...and then you carry your Baby around while you take pictures of step-son and attend the Science Fair.

At 8:45, you and Baby leave and now you take her around as you run errands, in and out of the car for almost an hour and a half.

Baby starts fussing...for whatever reason.

OK...Moms...what do you do?

Take your tired little one home to her own bed... or drive around aimlessly on country roads for hours to "soothe" her?

AND then you head with a child you think doesn't feel well to the common nursery at your gym?!!!!

Poor Baby K!

After all that time, carting a Baby here and there, my first "diagnoses" would have been...she is tired and needs her nap. Needs her own bed.

I'm assuming it's this strange driving-around-for-hours-with-infant period that Terri can't account for or "remember" and the rest of the Family and LS find so odd.

Terri's story is "off."

Just my humble opinion.

sometimes you are forced to take your child with because of pressing matters.

But Terri's schedule has nothing pressing in it that I can see.

So to take a baby ALL of those hours whether fussy or not sounds a nightmare. Even older children who can entertain themselves for awhile hate to have those kinds of days.

 

[BringKyronHome]

Here's where I have trouble with the common sense of Terri's story as a Mom and (for me)now a Grandma.

As a Mom, you get your infant child up early to feed, dress, and put in the car so you can drive your step-son to school. All those preparations mean your Baby is up at least 1/2 hour. Now you make the trip to the school...travel time...and then you carry your Baby around while you take pictures of step-son and attend the Science Fair.

At 8:45, you and Baby leave and now you take her around as you run errands, in and out of the car for almost an hour and a half.

Baby starts fussing...for whatever reason.

OK...Moms...what do you do?

Take your tired little one home to her own bed... or drive around aimlessly on country roads for hours to "soothe" her?

AND then you head with a child you think doesn't feel well to the common nursery at your gym?!!!!

Poor Baby K!

After all that time, carting a Baby here and there, my first "diagnoses" would have been...she is tired and needs her nap. Needs her own bed.

I'm assuming it's this strange driving-around-for-hours-with-infant period that Terri can't account for or "remember" and the rest of the Family and LS find so odd.

Terri's story is "off."

Just my humble opinion.

As a mom, I don't find it odd at all...

She's calling it an earache...which is very specific...if it just started that day, then yes, odd...WAY TOO odd...and she would know this, so if it was a made up story it would be a VERY poor one...so I'm assuming that in the days prior or in her history K was seen for this.

She was either already on meds OR the doc said it was just fluids OR she was getting a molar...either way, a fussy toddler that has pain is very hard to settle. Tried & true method is driving around bumpy roads...and 90 minutes is a good nap.

For all we know Terri picked up some toddler pain reliver at the store, gave her a dose and she started to doze on the drive...I would have absolutely kept driving until she woke. There is no way I would have pulled her out of that seat risking her waking and being even more cranky because of it.

It's only a bad story if you first assume that she was doing something hinky. If K was having some issues, then it's all very typical.

 

[BringKyronHome]

sometimes you are forced to take your child with because of pressing matters.

But Terri's schedule has nothing pressing in it that I can see.

So to take a baby ALL of those hours whether fussy or not sounds a nightmare. Even older children who can entertain themselves for awhile hate to have those kinds of days.

That's why getting the opportunity to play in the nursery (likely with other kids) was a nicety for her.

 

[wondering1]

I'm wondering if they have a passcard or a fingerprint entry at 24 hour fitness? I would imagine a 24 hour club would use the fingerprint entry, and during the day there would be someone monitoring it. I honestly don't know, but it would be good information to have, imo.

Is this common? Fwiw, I live in an area that's undergone huge growth in the past 10 years and almost everything around here is brand spankin' new (i.e., state of the art) and I have yet to see a fingerprint recognition gym entry. I've been in my local 24-Hour fitness and Lifetime, as well as the gym I belong to. All of them use photo id cards and swipe them. Your photo, and those of all of your family members, comes up on the screen.

Also, my son is in a gym camp right now, at a gym I am not a member of. I walk him in and out every day and just need to sign my name in a book laid out on the side of the counter and indicate that I'm there for camp. No i.d. necessary and no one pays the slightest bit of attention to me. I easily could get away with not signing the book at all (actually, I have gotten away with it :blushing Only when I actually check my child out of camp at the end of the day do I have to produce photo i.d. and be matched to the list of authorized picker-uppers.

Even if I was a member and had a card, I could do all of this without anyone questioning me. So if I just entered the gym, and didn't actually check my child into camp, I would never have to show i.d. to enter or to leave.

In this case, since the time line for the gym is so specific -- at least for arriving, I'm assuming there is some kind of record. Just sayin' it's not like you can't get away with walking in and out of a gym, member or not, without any record other than, maybe, the video cameras. jmtc

 

[wondering1]

As a mom, I don't find it odd at all...

I would have absolutely kept driving until she woke.

bbm~

Really??? My kids are not that old, so my memory is fairly clear, and one of them was a car sleeper. I have driven around many times to avoid waking him, but NEVER for 90 minutes. That is a LONG, LONG time to drive around aimlessly. I think the most I've ever done is about 1/2 hour, maybe 45minutes maximum. And even if I ever did hit the 45 minute mark, it was ONE time. At that point, I'm prepared to risk waking them up in the car to crib transfer. Anyone else drive around for that long? I'm wondering if I'm *unusual* in that regard :blushing:

 

[stmarysmead]

As a mom, I don't find it odd at all...

She's calling it an earache...which is very specific...if it just started that day, then yes, odd...WAY TOO odd...and she would know this, so if it was a made up story it would be a VERY poor one...so I'm assuming that in the days prior or in her history K was seen for this.

She was either already on meds OR the doc said it was just fluids OR she was getting a molar...either way, a fussy toddler that has pain is very hard to settle. Tried & true method is driving around bumpy roads...and 90 minutes is a good nap.

For all we know Terri picked up some toddler pain reliver at the store, gave her a dose and she started to doze on the drive...I would have absolutely kept driving until she woke. There is no way I would have pulled her out of that seat risking her waking and being even more cranky because of it.

It's only a bad story if you first assume that she was doing something hinky. If K was having some issues, then it's all very typical.

But, with respect, look at how much mitigating evidence you had to "assume" out of thin air to make this story of Terri's palatable...or "un-hinky."

In other words, you had to create a whole series of helpful "possibilities" to make Terri look better. We have heard none of these assumptions stated anywhere else stated to date.

Helpful assumption (to Terri)... 1.

You ask us to assume Baby K has a history of earaches. No one has said that.

Helpful assumption (to Terri)...2

You ask us to assume Baby K was either "already on meds OR the doc said it was just fluids OR she was getting a molar." No one has been quoted as saying any of that either.

Helpful assumption (to Terri)...3

You ask us to further assumeTerri picked up some toddler pain reliever at the store.

Helpful assumption (to Terri)...4

You ask us to assume Terri "gave her a dose and she started to doze on the drive."

That's giving Terri an awful lot of help to make her look "unhinky." And none of those things have been mentioned anywhere.

I think her story looks hinky until Baby's K's doctor says she had that history of earaches; that doctor says Baby K is on medicine that day; a pharmacist says Terri bought over-the-counter stuff too...etc.

Otherwise, we could all "help" any suspect in any case by extrapolating all sorts of things.

Of course, all these things are possible. I'm just concerned when we have to "assume" so much in order to make a suspect look credible. We could assume Scott Peterson went fishing because a bear appeared in his Modesto backyard, tramped on his toe, ran off and sadly, for a few hours, Scott's golf shoes didn't fit so he innocently went up to SF Bay on a winter day...but that's sure helping him along, isn't it?

There is no "assuming" that Terri had that Baby out for a long, long time and then took her to a gym nursery.

 

[Emeralgem]

That's why getting the opportunity to play in the nursery (likely with other kids) was a nicety for her.

A nicety for who? IF baby K wasn't feeling well that morning as TMH claims (reason being she drove her around for one and a half hours), I doubt she felt like interacting with other children in a day care center while her mother deemed it necessary to get in a workout...JMO

 

[citigirl]

Something that occurred to me about Baby K's earache...sorry if this has already been mentioned...Maybe this story was made up to cover obvious signs of crying hard...if Baby K saw something horrifying that upset her....

 

[momoftwo2002]

Without some forensic or corroborating evidence linking TMH to Kyron's disappearance, what can they arrest TMH for in regards to Kyron? They don't know if he's alive or not, though I suspect they have their beliefs (that he's not). If they had this corroborating evidence then they would arrest her and charge her at least with endangerment of a child. Obviously they aren't able to tie whatever pieces they have into a cohesive whole. Maybe they'll get there, but they're not there yet.

Now as for the MFH plot they would have arrested her if they believed they could make that charge stick/prove it in a court of law.

Bottomline: the DA doesn't have enough of anything to charge TMH yet. They certainly aren't going to jump the gun just to satisfy an impatient public who wants to see TMH in handcuffs doing the perp walk.

I believe LE isn't ready to make an arrest in this case because they have not located Kyron and TH is such a loose cannon LE is leaving her free to continue with her telling, bizzare behavior that may reveal more important clues.

 

[momoftwo2002]

But, with respect, look at how much mitigating evidence you had to "assume" out of thin air to make this story of Terri's palatable...or "un-hinky."

In other words, you had to create a whole series of helpful "possibilities" to make Terri look better. We have heard none of these assumptions stated anywhere else stated to date.

Helpful assumption (to Terri)... 1.

You ask us to assume Baby K has a history of earaches. No one has said that.

Helpful assumption (to Terri)...2

You ask us to assume Baby K was either "already on meds OR the doc said it was just fluids OR she was getting a molar." No one has been quoted as saying any of that either.

Helpful assumption (to Terri)...3

You ask us to further assumeTerri picked up some toddler pain reliever at the store.

Helpful assumption (to Terri)...4

You ask us to assume Terri "gave her a dose and she started to doze on the drive."

That's giving Terri an awful lot of help to make her look "unhinky." And none of those things have been mentioned anywhere.

I think her story looks hinky until Baby's K's doctor says she had that history of earaches; that doctor says Baby K is on medicine that day; a pharmacist says Terri bought over-the-counter stuff too...etc.

Otherwise, we could all "help" any suspect in any case by extrapolating all sorts of things.

Of course, all these things are possible. I'm just concerned when we have to "assume" so much in order to make a suspect look credible. We could assume Scott Peterson went fishing because a bear appeared in his Modesto backyard, tramped on his toe, ran off and sadly, for a few hours, Scott's golf shoes didn't fit so he innocently went up to SF Bay on a winter day...but that's sure helping him along, isn't it?

There is no "assuming" that Terri had that Baby out for a long, long time and then took her to a gym nursery.

I had one baby with colic and both of my children were extremely fussy when they were teething or had earaches. I would rather listen to nails scraping against a chalkboard than drive around with a wailing baby. Why?....because my overwhelming maternal instincts made me want to hold and console my child. I couldn't stand it when they were strapped in a carseat, facing away from me in the backseat. Hurting babies crave physical contact with their mommy. I have pulled over in a safe area and held my baby to soothe them so they would not have to suffer all they way home (a whole 15 minute ride! lol). The only time I drove my baby around for over an hour was to allow her peace and quiet to take a nap because my alcoholic husband (now ex-husband for obvious reasons) kept kicking her crib leg to wake her up and make me mad.

 

[bessie]

As a mom, I don't find it odd at all...

She's calling it an earache...which is very specific...if it just started that day, then yes, odd...WAY TOO odd...and she would know this, so if it was a made up story it would be a VERY poor one...so I'm assuming that in the days prior or in her history K was seen for this.

She was either already on meds OR the doc said it was just fluids OR she was getting a molar...either way, a fussy toddler that has pain is very hard to settle. Tried & true method is driving around bumpy roads...and 90 minutes is a good nap.

For all we know Terri picked up some toddler pain reliver at the store, gave her a dose and she started to doze on the drive...I would have absolutely kept driving until she woke. There is no way I would have pulled her out of that seat risking her waking and being even more cranky because of it.

It's only a bad story if you first assume that she was doing something hinky. If K was having some issues, then it's all very typical.

I have to disagree. TH's account of her time that morning would sound like nonsense to me coming from any source. First of all, a bumpy car ride is not conducive to pain relief for anyone at any age. For my son and the various other children I've cared for over the years, a 30-40 minute car ride on an even surface road always did the trick. Fifty minutes, tops. Then you take the poor kid home and gently place her in bed. If you're afraid lowering her into a crib will wake her, you place her on the sofa or your own bed, while taking proper precautions, of course. In the least case, I would accuse her of poor parenting. (God help the future mother of my future grandchildren. ) I could buy the part about the ride itself if it was a pretty day, and Terri was enjoying the drive while little K slept. But the weather wasn't that nice.
http://www.wunderground.com/history...tml?req_city=NA&req_state=NA&req_statename=NA

Regardless, assuming she slept the entire ninety minutes, that is not long enough to assume she was well enough to drag to the gym. IMO.

 

[angelmom]

Yeah, the car ride doesn't bother me at all, and I don't need any helpful assumptions.

I had a child who slept in the car. He could not be transferred without waking. He was not a great sleeper anywhere else, except if I was holding him.

If I really needed a break, I'd drive him around. I am with the poster above who wouldn't dare stop the car until he woke up. And I think there are enough parents who have posted here that they had a similar experience that it is disingenuous to say how unlikely it is.

I might have gone to the gym after. No one said Baby K was sick. No one said she was contagious or on meds or had fluid in her ear. Terri (supposedly) said she had an earache. Which might have been the beginning of an ear infection (not contagious) or teeth coming in or just tired. Kids frequently tug on their ears and rub their eyes when they are tired, and experienced moms don't rush off to the doctor every time a toddler fusses a bit.

I might have grabbed a diet Coke back at the grocery store and enjoyed the peace and quiet...call a friend, listen to a podcast...whatever, until it was time to meet my friend at the gym. If the baby woke up happy, I'd have thought, "Oh, she was just overtired from having to get up earlier this morning and all the chaos" an gone on about my day.

Helpful assumptions go both ways...as in, "If she was sexting then that tells you what kind of person she was and she probably killed Kyron" or "If she's not sobbing her eyes out to Barbara Walters, then she doesn't care about him at all and is probably a sociopath...or had BPD...or is Bi-Polar" or "hiring a lawyer means she is the kidnapper."

 

[Jack]

bbm~

Really??? My kids are not that old, so my memory is fairly clear, and one of them was a car sleeper. I have driven around many times to avoid waking him, but NEVER for 90 minutes. That is a LONG, LONG time to drive around aimlessly. I think the most I've ever done is about 1/2 hour, maybe 45minutes maximum. And even if I ever did hit the 45 minute mark, it was ONE time. At that point, I'm prepared to risk waking them up in the car to crib transfer. Anyone else drive around for that long? I'm wondering if I'm *unusual* in that regard :blushing:

My son was a fairly heavy sleeper so once he fell asleep I didn't have to worry too much about waking him, but while he was really little I would just leave him in his seat and bring the whole thing in the house and put him still in the seat somewhere I could keep an eye on him and minimize the chance of waking a cranky baby. Getting him to sleep was the iffy thing. Sometimes took a few minutes, sometimes longer.

The driving around doesn't bother me too much. I've done it a thousand times. The wording people are batting around could be misleading. Driving around, driving around aimlessly, etc... Maybe she was driving with a purpose rather than aimlessly. Maybe since she had a fussy babe she was trying to sooth she decided she would drive out to look at landscaping to get some ideas for her own home. Sometimes now I drive around just to kill time and look at people's flowers in their yards, etc. Sometimes if its a nice day I drive around aimlessly just because I can. lol, thats probably a bit unusual these days but I sometimes I like to amusse myself just checking out the area I live in. If by chance I've just gotten a new car, I drive all over the place.

 

[BringKyronHome]

But, with respect, look at how much mitigating evidence you had to "assume" out of thin air to make this story of Terri's palatable...or "un-hinky."

In other words, you had to create a whole series of helpful "possibilities" to make Terri look better. We have heard none of these assumptions stated anywhere else stated to date.

Helpful assumption (to Terri)... 1.

You ask us to assume Baby K has a history of earaches. No one has said that.

Helpful assumption (to Terri)...2

You ask us to assume Baby K was either "already on meds OR the doc said it was just fluids OR she was getting a molar." No one has been quoted as saying any of that either.

Helpful assumption (to Terri)...3

You ask us to further assumeTerri picked up some toddler pain reliever at the store.

Helpful assumption (to Terri)...4

You ask us to assume Terri "gave her a dose and she started to doze on the drive."

That's giving Terri an awful lot of help to make her look "unhinky." And none of those things have been mentioned anywhere.

I think her story looks hinky until Baby's K's doctor says she had that history of earaches; that doctor says Baby K is on medicine that day; a pharmacist says Terri bought over-the-counter stuff too...etc.

Otherwise, we could all "help" any suspect in any case by extrapolating all sorts of things.

Of course, all these things are possible. I'm just concerned when we have to "assume" so much in order to make a suspect look credible. We could assume Scott Peterson went fishing because a bear appeared in his Modesto backyard, tramped on his toe, ran off and sadly, for a few hours, Scott's golf shoes didn't fit so he innocently went up to SF Bay on a winter day...but that's sure helping him along, isn't it?

There is no "assuming" that Terri had that Baby out for a long, long time and then took her to a gym nursery.

This is all I'm saying...I'm not asking you to assume anything...just look at the scenarios:

1. She is NOT a new mom. Any child that is having ear issues needs to see the doc - period. Even a non-mom knows that a potential untreated ear infection can lead to hearing loss. The child should be seen.

2. Driving around does NOT resolve "earaches"...it only serves to relax and 'rock' a cranky child.

3. IF she is looking for an alibi because she had just murdered &/or disposed of a child, driving around with no witnesses is a very bad alibi.


That's it.

So I assume that if she did not go to the docs on 6/4, there was a reason. Checking w/ K's doc will resolve that.

If Terri is calling it an earache, I think it's safe to assume she gave K something for pain...the same way you feed a hungry child...or find a way to get a cranky child to relax...that's what moms do.

That's all I'm saying.

 

[wondering1]

My son was a fairly heavy sleeper so once he fell asleep I didn't have to worry too much about waking him, but while he was really little I would just leave him in his seat and bring the whole thing in the house and put him still in the seat somewhere I could keep an eye on him and minimize the chance of waking a cranky baby. Getting him to sleep was the iffy thing. Sometimes took a few minutes, sometimes longer.

The driving around doesn't bother me too much. I've done it a thousand times. The wording people are batting around could be misleading. Driving around, driving around aimlessly, etc... Maybe she was driving with a purpose rather than aimlessly. Maybe since she had a fussy babe she was trying to sooth she decided she would drive out to look at landscaping to get some ideas for her own home. Sometimes now I drive around just to kill time and look at people's flowers in their yards, etc. Sometimes if its a nice day I drive around aimlessly just because I can. lol, thats probably a bit unusual these days but I sometimes I like to amusse myself just checking out the area I live in. If by chance I've just gotten a new car, I drive all over the place.

bbm

haha...me, too. That's the thing. I really love to drive. But not for 1 1/2 hours with no place to go, and in a pick-up truck with a cranky/sleeping toddler. Now give me a porsche, some winding backroads, and no toddler and I'm good to go. lol.

I used the word "aimlessly," and I guess that's what I took from the timeline statement, but maybe I'm wrong about that. I guess we'll know eventually, or not :banghead:

btw, I've done the car seat removal thing, too. I've also left him in the car in the garage with the doors (house and car) open if the weather is cool enough :::mother of the year::: :blushing:

 

[angelmom]

This is all I'm saying...I'm not asking you to assume anything...just look at the scenarios:

1. She is NOT a new mom. Any child that is having ear issues needs to see the doc - period. Even a non-mom knows that a potential untreated ear infection can lead to hearing loss. The child should be seen.

Not true. My doctor doesn't even give antibiotics for ear infections anymore unless the child is in extreme pain and overlapping Motrin/Tylenol isn't relieving it OR if it is bulging and looks like it might burst. The latest research shows that the vast majority of ear infections resolve themselves, and they are one of the most common (over)uses of antibiotics.

I would absolutely try Motrin and a nap before rushing to the doctor.

http://www.drgreene.com/qa/antibiotics-and-ear-infections

2. Driving around does NOT resolve "earaches"...it only serves to relax and 'rock' a cranky child.

Which might be sufficient reason to try it - to determine if it's something that needs to be checked out or is just general fussiness.

3. IF she is looking for an alibi because she had just murdered &/or disposed of a child, driving around with no witnesses is a very bad alibi.

I agree that it's a bad alibi. She could have done a hundred other things that would have sounded better, but if she is innocent she didn't KNOW she needed a good alibi!


That's it.

So I assume that if she did not go to the docs on 6/4, there was a reason. Checking w/ K's doc will resolve that.

If Terri is calling it an earache, I think it's safe to assume she gave K something for pain...the same way you feed a hungry child...or find a way to get a cranky child to relax...that's what moms do.


Yes, maybe she tried a car ride and a nap...and it worked.

That's all I'm saying.

That's all I'm saying.

 

[human]

That's why getting the opportunity to play in the nursery (likely with other kids) was a nicety for her.

I don't think that a child who has been away from home since 8 in the morning at a noisy school, sitting in a car, doing errands with mother, sitting more in a car , and then going to a daycare would be happy.

And the child have ear issues. Terri is not a doctor and could not diagnose what the problem really was. I don't care what she saw as the symptoms.

The child was not a happy camper.

I look at that day as an adult. Drag me to school at 8; drive around with errands; child is fussy; drive around for ninety minutes; then bring to gym. Then leave your baby in a room by herself while you do non-critical items on the internet. Most children that age would need Mommy time. But perhaps not if the baby is doing well without her. That brings up more red flags to me.

If Terri's day was filled with critical events that she had to drag a child along, then yes, it would have to be done. But I don't see it as a good day for the baby at all.