Found Deceased Spain - Esther Dingley, from UK, missing in the Pyrenees, November 2020 #2

[stmarysmead]

“The moving finger writes; and, having writ, moves on: nor all thy piety nor wit shall lure it back to cancel half a line, nor all thy tears wash out a word of it. -- Omar Khayyam.

I think of Mother Nature much like the “moving finger” of history that is described above. She is no one’s friend or foe...she cannot be counted on to be consistent or relied on to be predictable. No piety or wit or “experience” or equipment can help any of us control her.

I am so grateful to those of you who are experienced either with the sport, the mountains or the terrain for all you’ve added to this thread. What I see is a lovely and much loved young woman in yoga pants, dark colors, ascending a mountain when others are coming down for the day...in late Nov. during a pandemic. She has been lucky so often that I fear she is beginning to think she, not Mother Nature...is in control. I think she began to think that every challenge she won over her fear...was irreversible. Once accomplished... could never go sour.

The picture of her previous bivouac posted above...just terrifies me with possible dire scenarios. If it blew off and she was hungry and terribly cold...would she stumble after it in the darkness?

I think Esther’s challenges to herself, too often depended on cooperation from others...and particularly from Mother Nature. But the latter cannot be charmed or controlled and just...moves on...uninterested in the consequences or chaos She leaves behind for trusting young woman like Esther.

I hope whatever happened...was quick.

 

[BobbleBob]

Completely agree, been thinking about that all day, could easily blow her away whist inside the sleeping bag at night,.. I’ve nearly had the same happen to me before, and you can’t get out in time to get everything that blew away. In the long trek they took earlier in the year, her jacket blew away whilst they were both drying out the tent on a slope,.. how silly doing that on a windy slope?... and DC had to go down the slope to get it, it was careless, but may have been DCs fault but think it was her jacket that blew away,..

BBM

It was their down jackets (warm jackets), and they were in a yellow dry bag that rolled down hill. Just watched the video they made right after it happen last night. The bag got stopped by a bush, but DC had to go down the slope to get it. They were very lucky both to get the bag back and also that DC managed to get down and back up safely.

 

[BobbleBob]

DBM - double post

 

[The_Investigator]

See this photo? I believe it's from the top of the Pic. It's the reason I think ED might have headed for the Hospice even though it wasn't her original plan to go anti-clockwise.

She might not even have known its status, but internet outside might have been a big draw for her.

The Hospice is just sitting there, right at you feet. It looks so close and easy to get to...

Source: Randonnée Pic Sauvegarde 2738m – Les Topos Pyrénées par Mariano

Looks lovely ... so picture perfect

 

[The_Investigator]

“The moving finger writes; and, having writ, moves on: nor all thy piety nor wit shall lure it back to cancel half a line, nor all thy tears wash out a word of it. -- Omar Khayyam.

I think of Mother Nature much like the “moving finger” of history that is described above. She is no one’s friend or foe...she cannot be counted on to be consistent or relied on to be predictable. No piety or wit or “experience” or equipment can help any of us control her.

I am so grateful to those of you who are experienced either with the sport, the mountains or the terrain for all you’ve added to this thread. What I see is a lovely and much loved young woman in yoga pants, dark colors, ascending a mountain when others are coming down for the day...in late Nov. during a pandemic. She has been lucky so often that I fear she is beginning to think she, not Mother Nature...is in control. I think she began to think that every challenge she won over her fear...was irreversible. Once accomplished... could never go sour.

The picture of her previous bivouac posted above...just terrifies me with possible dire scenarios. If it blew off and she was hungry and terribly cold...would she stumble after it in the darkness?

I think Esther’s challenges to herself, too often depended on cooperation from others...and particularly from Mother Nature. But the latter cannot be charmed or controlled and just...moves on...uninterested in the consequences or chaos She leaves behind for trusting young woman like Esther.

I hope whatever happened...was quick.

Omg that is so poetic and I think after all this investigation, you are probably right. Beautifully put, sad, but she had spent 6 years doing what she liked and nothing bad happening, so she just got too confident in herself when as you say nature is the true force and we cannot beat it.

 

[The_Investigator]

BBM

It was their down jackets (warm jackets), and they were in a yellow dry bag that rolled down hill. Just watched the video they made right after it happen last night. The bag got stopped by a bush, but DC had to go down the slope to get it. They were very lucky both to get the bag back and also that DC managed to get down and back up safely.

Imagin if the bush hadn’t stopped it,. No jacket for how ever many days back to base!,,,

 

[The_Investigator]

“The moving finger writes; and, having writ, moves on: nor all thy piety nor wit shall lure it back to cancel half a line, nor all thy tears wash out a word of it. -- Omar Khayyam.

I think of Mother Nature much like the “moving finger” of history that is described above. She is no one’s friend or foe...she cannot be counted on to be consistent or relied on to be predictable. No piety or wit or “experience” or equipment can help any of us control her.

I am so grateful to those of you who are experienced either with the sport, the mountains or the terrain for all you’ve added to this thread. What I see is a lovely and much loved young woman in yoga pants, dark colors, ascending a mountain when others are coming down for the day...in late Nov. during a pandemic. She has been lucky so often that I fear she is beginning to think she, not Mother Nature...is in control. I think she began to think that every challenge she won over her fear...was irreversible. Once accomplished... could never go sour.

The picture of her previous bivouac posted above...just terrifies me with possible dire scenarios. If it blew off and she was hungry and terribly cold...would she stumble after it in the darkness?

I think Esther’s challenges to herself, too often depended on cooperation from others...and particularly from Mother Nature. But the latter cannot be charmed or controlled and just...moves on...uninterested in the consequences or chaos She leaves behind for trusting young woman like Esther.

I hope whatever happened...was quick.

DC actually said that after her first month away alone, confidence wise, there was a “step change” in her,... don’t think he would have mentioned that unless he felt it was an important change in her.

 

[otto]

Do we know whether she had a head lamp? My daughter goes night hiking in the snowy mountains with friends, but they have head lamps and emergency gear.

 

[RickshawFan]

Completely agree, been thinking about that all day, could easily blow her away whist inside the sleeping bag at night,.. I’ve nearly had the same happen to me before, and you can’t get out in time to get everything that blew away. In the long trek they took earlier in the year, her jacket blew away whilst they were both drying out the tent on a slope,.. how silly doing that on a windy slope?... and DC had to go down the slope to get it, it was careless, but may have been DCs fault but think it was her jacket that blew away,..

I don’t think she would have blown away, but definitely her tent could or she could have dropped her phone or jacket off a cliff and tried to retrieve it.

I look at our lovely French blogger as the gold standard. Whatever he proposes, evaluates, models, or insists upon, believe him. This is how an experienced person operates, someone who knows the mountains, and someone who understands safety. And he’s talking about summer, not late November.

 

[RickshawFan]

Do we know whether she had a head lamp? My daughter goes night hiking in the snowy mountains with friends, but they have head lamps and emergency gear.

I would guess ED had a headlamp, but unless she had spare batteries, the light was going to dim substantially or disappear entirely (if rechargeable) after about 2 hours, no matter how long the package says the batteries last (if you look at battery life vs brightness in headlamp specs, you’ll find they go dim very quickly. I can also speak from experience: my older Petzl would stay bright for hours and hours; my newer brighter one leaves me in the twilight zone after about 2.
Note: although theoretically a person could hike in the dark with a headlamp, not everyone can. I’ve had to bivouac on a day hike because I couldn’t see my feet. This was a nasty surprise.

I doubt ED knew these esoteric details (I’ve had the privilege of reading about a thousand headlamp packages), and I think it unlikely she calculated she’d need to carry extra batteries for a mere 2-day trip.

On the other hand, she was so committed to the notion of bivouac-ing, I don’t think she’d have attempted to hike at night.

Friendly advisory: a headlamp (or other light) is on the list of 10 essentials. That means one goes in your daypack, no discussion. AAA is better than rechargeable for your pack, IMO because you can take spare batteries. And basic is fine ($20-$30 for high quality, so they’re not expensive). Put your spare batteries in your mini first aid kit, so you can feel around and get them even if it’s pitch black. Yep, always take spare batteries.

 

[RedHaus]

In your experience, and....lets say she had dry clothes,

Could she likely be able to survive a very uncomfortable night on the mountain and perhaps another night at lower elevations in the general area just by staying mobile and constantly taking trails to lower elevations (even if lost)?

Likewise, I wonder if she could she have eventually reached a paved road in an exhausted state, started to hitchhike, and then encountered a dangerous person?

You know @Cryptic, this is one possibility I continue to mull over in my mind - can't let go of the idea ED got to a road and dissapeared either voluntarily or involuntarily. It could be as simple as the road to Banasque if she aborted her 3 day trek early or simply finished her trek as planned on 11/24, or the road out of the Hospice de France towards Luchon. This would match the MSM summaries of the LE search. But it would only work if ED did not use her phone to update her loved ones, either by choice (being independent) or not (dead battery, no cell service or lost her phone). All it would take is a hitched ride gone bad.

 

[RickshawFan]

In your experience, and....lets say she had dry clothes,

Could she likely be able to survive a very uncomfortable night on the mountain and perhaps another night at lower elevations in the general area just by staying mobile and constantly taking trails to lower elevations (even if lost)?

Likewise, I wonder if she could she have eventually reached a paved road in an exhausted state, started to hitchhike, and then encountered a dangerous person?

The safest place to be was the Refuge. It was frigid those nights. A cold refuge was going to be warmer than anywhere; she might even have found an old mattress there that she could have thrown on top of herself, or even if she had it under her.

Plus, you would expect her to have a stove and sufficient fuel, since she was overnighting. She could have been sitting in the Refuge sipping hot water if she didn’t bring tea. Maybe even have a chance to build a fire...

At this point, I am uncertain if she brought any of this gear, especially the stove and fuel (fuel is expensive).

There was no option to stagger around in an exhausted state. She would have got hypothermia. Once you have hypothermia, you can’t think straight.

 

[RedHaus]

The safest place to be was the Refuge. It was frigid those nights. A cold refuge was going to be warmer than anywhere; she might even have found an old mattress there that she could have thrown on top of herself, or even if she had it under her.

Plus, you would expect her to have a stove and sufficient fuel, since she was overnighting. She could have been sitting in the Refuge sipping hot water if she didn’t bring tea. Maybe even have a chance to build a fire...

At this point, I am uncertain if she brought any of this gear, especially the stove and fuel (fuel is expensive).

There was no option to stagger around in an exhausted state. She would have got hypothermia. Once you have hypothermia, you can’t think straight.

You are teaching us so much @RickshawFan! Thank you!

 

[Grouse]

She described herself as the snail on this tour. That was because she carried a large backpack and as she stated she carried everything she needed for survival. We know she had lightweight high-end gear that took up less space, so given the large pack size (that was cause for comment by the skier) I'm sure she had capacity in there for provisions. I've seen many photos of her and Dan cooking up hot meals in refuges and I'm sure she will have had a stove and been planning to cook a hot meal and drink at the next refuge.

So all in all I think she was pretty well prepared though I can relate to some of the thinking on risk taking, ascending mountains late in the day etc

IMO whatever happened to her I don't think that:
- she had a hydration problem because she couldn't blag a bit of fruit off a skier
- she blew away in the night while camping/bivvying with no signs of a body or a bright yellow tent to be found
- she choked on chia seeds
- she had no food because she was out of money just because she queried the price reduction on said seeds - that's quite a Northern UK trait to do that sort of thing (well, she lived in Durham even if not from there) - we call it "being thrifty"
- she did something stupid due to a non existent asperger's condition

ETA: I guess it's all going to be quiet on the news front now as winter sets in in the search area, MSM has been quiet so don't expect much will come out for a while now.

 

[Cryptic]

The safest place to be was the Refuge. It was frigid those nights. A cold refuge was going to be warmer than anywhere

There was no option to stagger around in an exhausted state. She would have got hypothermia. Once you have hypothermia, you can’t think straight.

Ouch, though the over all conditions seem survivable, I think survival may depend on "optimal" people. Perhaps:

- Preferably two fit individuals (endurance sports, serious mountain hobbyists, elite soldiers etc.)
- They are well nourished and are not already half fatigued by running a long term nutrition deficit.
- They are trained / experienced in analyzing mountaineous terrain for fast but safe routes to lower elevation- even if lost.
- They watch each other for signs of hypothermia. If needed, they change clothes with each other etc.
- And perhaps most importantly, they encourage each other to keep moving in a chosen good direction and to stay mobile. They eventually come to a paved road and flag down a motorist.

With the hypothermia you mentioned, she may have made it off the mountain proper inefficiently and in a very fatigued state with growing hypothermia. Then, sadly, she got disoriented and fell victim to hypothermia and exhaustion at a lower elevation.

 

[otto]

I think she slipped and fell on the French side of the border after crossing the Port de Venasque. That fits with everything we know in terms of not arriving at the refuge, possibly being in the lake that was not searched, no sign of any of her belongings, no trace of her whatsoever after the 4 PM summit photo.

 

[Grouse]

I think she slipped and fell on the French side of the border after crossing the Port de Venasque. That fits with everything we know in terms of not arriving at the refuge, possibly being in the lake that was not searched, no sign of any of her belongings, no trace of her whatsoever after the 4 PM summit photo.

That is my gut feeling also based on all I've read. I'm amazed those lakes haven't been searched and eliminated. They don't look that big, wouldn't take long with an underwater drone surely.

 

[Tanzanite]

RickshawFan mentioned hypothermia upthread, and the confusion it causes. I experienced this years ago while surfing. I'm cautious by nature, physically strong and fit, and I was suited and booted in winter layers for cold water, but I'd stayed out just a bit too long without realising how tired and cold I was getting.

I lay down on my board and felt very sleepy. It was getting dark, the sea was getting choppy and I was vaguely aware that I should get back to shore, but I was at the stage of not caring and just wanted to go to sleep. My partner spotted what was happening and was able to tow me in. I couldn't move my arms or legs by this point, and I felt exhausted and confused.

Lesson learned and I was incredibly lucky. I've thought about that experience, reading about the possibility of Esther sleeping out in a bivvy bag in such low temperatures, maybe in damp clothes, feeling like that. Hypothermia would be a real risk, and so dangerous if you're alone. Poor Esther.

 

[otto]

That is my gut feeling also based on all I've read. I'm amazed those lakes haven't been searched and eliminated. They don't look that big, wouldn't take long with an underwater drone surely.

They iced over within days of her disappearance so we have to wait for Spring for them to be searched.

 

[Puzzles]

We've had no recent update from MSM, DC, or LBT Global.
Source - The Chronicle. Dec. 16: French police captain Jean Marc Bordinaro confirmed: “French officers probing Esther disappearance will meet with detectives from Huesca in Spain later this week."

The above statement was published two weeks ago, yet nothing about the proposed meeting has been reported, to my knowledge.

Is it not possible that ED was missing, and has now been found? That could explain why there's been no recent, public update.