The Smiths

[time]

stormmolly... thank you. I do actually hope that TW can get some help with an attorney. Besides that, I hope that Logan and his PI will contact TW if they haven't because TWobviously knows a lot about the Smith's over many years. Like JJ Armes said (paraphrasing) - their lives should be looked at from the day they were born. Frankly, my feelings have always been that Jack is as much a part of anything as Tammi is. I don't think he just sits on the sidelines while she talks too much.

 

[not_my_kids]

stormolly, we can't do direct quotes from blogs, which is what AC is. We can only link and paraphrase.

Nice find, though.

 

[yosande]

http://www.associatedcontent.com/article/2576139/missing_baby_gabriel_mom_charged_w.html?cat=25

O/T, but this just makes me angry. We have an 8th amendment to The Constitution of the United States.

[ame]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eighth_Amendment_to_the_United_States_Constitution[/ame]

 

[DairyGirl]

http://www.associatedcontent.com/article/2576139/missing_baby_gabriel_mom_charged_w.html?cat=25

O/T, but this just makes me angry. We have an 8th amendment to The Constitution of the United States.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eighth_Amendment_to_the_United_States_Constitution

I'm not getting it. Are you saying that EJ's bail is too high? She may have killed her baby!

 

[stormmolly]

stormolly, we can't do direct quotes from blogs, which is what AC is. We can only link and paraphrase.

Nice find, though.

Oh Im sorry, I did not know, still new, Thank you will not do that again, :banghead:

 

[not_my_kids]

NMK... yeah, maybe we don't know what their role is, but we can use this thread to look at the Smith's and they are still POI's. That doesn't mean Elizabeth didn't have a role.

I hope you know, I wasn't arguing with the idea of analyzing them. I do it as much as anyone. I think they know something. I was responding to someone else, but running on no sleep, and forgot to quote.I certainly wasn't trying to discourage anyone, they are a part of this, as far as I am concerned.

 

[stormmolly]

Oh Im sorry, I did not know, still new, Thank you will not do that again, :banghead:

hope this is okay I edited it, lol, really sorry though, :truce:

 

[time]

NMK... I understand, I guess I reacted a bit. I am one who thinks the Smith's are in this up to their eyeballs. I'm really afraid that EJ may have turned Gabriel over to someone and doesn't have much information to give about that. I'm really concerned given that last conversation that Tammi says she had with her - mostly because it just validated to me that Tammi did set her up and Tammi knows it's going to be really difficult for EJ to prove that (plus, who knows what else was going on that could complicate things).

I know others will not agree and I could be wrong, but I do not think that EJ is staying quiet just to get back at Logan or to do anything just to keep Gabriel from him now. I think the convo she had with her grandfather also makes some sense in light of this - she's gonna get 20 years no matter what. Think about it, if she has no information that would help find Gabriel, she's going to get 20 years. Then there are other strange conversations that also support this theory like Jack talking about keeping a kid hid away till they are reintroduced and such. Like Tammi and Jack not being overwhelmed with grief and being so public - they don't think anyone can trace it back to them either and they know Gabriel is safe! Like EJ using the words 'closed adoption'. There's also lots of clues in Tammi and Jack's history that lead us to believe some funky things have gone on, plus, there's solid evidence Tammi forged documents. There's all that talk about the underground, changing jurisdictions, getting her in touch with Janet Morris (The Adoption Place that had some ethical problems related to notifying fathers), they've withheld information, etc. The Smith's have tried to control conversations with EJ and make her look bad while making themselves look better. None of this points towards EJ murdering Gabriel.

More is going to come out about them and I bet the FBI already has tons of stuff on them. They made a mistake if they were the ones who encouraged EJ to cross state lines and helped with plans to hand off Gabriel. The FBI and LE just can't make that solid link to charge them and make sure it sticks - or just haven't yet. Else, they are watching them, hoping they will make some move or do something because they are more concerned with finding Gabriel than throwing their sorry butts in jail or making any mistake that would allow them to get out. Having said all that, they might have set this up so that they couldn't be charged.

So, if I want to follow my theory, what could they have done to set this up so that EJ pays the price and someone got Gabriel with being able to trace it back to the Smith's (they seem pretty confident), without being able to find him, and without EJ being able to assist in retrieving him?


references:

The Adoption Place, Inc v. John Doe

Dec 5, 2007
www.tsc.state.tn.us/opinions/tca/PDF/074/adoptionplaceOPN.pdf

Feb 4, 2008
www.tsc.state.tn.us/OPINIONS/TSC/certiorari/2008/Certlist020408.pdf

[ame="http://websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?p=4656022"]AZ - 8 mo. old Gabriel Johnson missing since 12-26-09, #3 - Page 22 - Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community[/ame]

 

[time]

One other thing that bothers me and I wish we knew more, but I'm sure LE has looked at it... that is Tammi's claim that she didn't know EJ was already arrested when she sent her an email on December 31st. Even if she didn't know EJ had been arrested, I'd have to say she knew it was imminent and sent that email to make herself look innocent. I also suspect she told EJ what kinds of emails to send her - knowing how it would look to investigators and helping to clear herself. I doubt EJ would have realized she was being set-up. It's not that she's not a very smart cookie, I just think she got blind sided by someone who is much more of a pro at all this. It's possible EJ also thought for some reason she was not going to be in that much trouble if she was caught.

 

[time]

oops......

 

[stormmolly]

One other thing that bothers me and I wish we knew more, but I'm sure LE has looked at it... that is Tammi's claim that she didn't know EJ was already arrested when she sent her an email on December 31st. Even if she didn't know EJ had been arrested, I'd have to say she knew it was imminent and sent that email to make herself look innocent. I also suspect she told EJ what kinds of emails to send her - knowing how it would look to investigators and helping to clear herself. I doubt EJ would have realized she was being set-up. It's not that she's not a very smart cookie, I just think she got blind sided by someone who is much more of a pro at all this. It's possible EJ also thought for some reason she was not going to be in that much trouble if she was caught.

I have felt for some time what you are saying, I agree, I dont think EJ has done anything to Gabriel, but I do think she knows were he is, I also feel that there may have been a threat towards her or someone, to keep her quiet, I have a feeling more will come out as to the dealing of TS and JS, I do believe they are behind this, Day one when I saw TS and JS on NG, I knew they were not telling all, I really hope and Pray that sweet Gabriel is found alive and returned to his daddy and family,

 

[time]

I have felt for some time what you are saying, I agree, I dont think EJ has done anything to Gabriel, but I do think she knows were he is, I also feel that there may have been a threat towards her or someone, to keep her quiet, I have a feeling more will come out as to the dealing of TS and JS, I do believe they are behind this, Day one when I saw TS and JS on NG, I knew they were not telling all, I really hope and Pray that sweet Gabriel is found alive and returned to his daddy and family,

Well... I think that is another good possibility, that there was/is a threat.

 

[Prof]

IMO there's a stalemate between the two at the moment --
Elizabeth's main goal is to make sure that Gabriel has a better life than she did, and she feels strongly --maybe the strongest opinion she has ever had in her own short life-- that Logan cannot give Gabriel that

I can't help hear hearing her say that Logan had ruined her life -- well, that is a dramatic statement for a 23 year old --- IMO evidence that she is still in a day by day youthful mode, without much scope for consequences or big pictures
Evident also by the fact that she could not see that Gabriel's life might not be any better with a couple who would be willing to illegally adopt

Tammi took advantage of all that, and perhaps now she is holding something over EJ's head, some promise or some threat, or a little of both?

Perhaps Tammi also suggested to EJ that if caught she would only get a certain amount of jail time, giving her an example of someone she knew with similar charges and a short sentence or probation; what I am saying is that TS' coaching could have not only been before, and throughout EJ's flight, but perhaps she covered ahead of time what EJ should do if caught, and in her underhanded way she is still coaching her -- hence the self-serving "interviews" with EJ


I think it is only a matter of time before it sinks in with EJ though, and seepage is evident as she started spilling in a phone call to TS -- IMO the total wash, or cleansing is not too far away - EJ is realizing that she could be in jail for 20 years at least, now she may well be getting some scope, forced to see that her life might not have been as ruined as she thought, at the prospect of 20 years

 

[weebleswobble]

I agree that the Smith's are a huge piece of this puzzle. With the information we have, the internet postings about adopting, the forging of court documents..plus, plus, plus, it is my opinion that this isn't something new for the Smith's.

I am sure LE are checking into the posting on various sites by Tammi and the posters she contacted and replied too concerning adopting a baby.

Also, I hope that LE are going over the finances of the Smith's. They need to do a full financial audit to make sure they are living within the means of their income. The only conclusion I can come to why the Smith's are involved would be for financial reasons. Money has to be changing hands somewhere.

JMO

 

[danisisa]

I hope they are looking into Swiss Bank Accounts for EJ, TS, and JS.

 

[not_my_kids]

Did Jack and Tammi remove the CL ads? I am having a hard time finding them.

Could be me though, I am pulling another all nighter.

 

[kissdegirl]

Did Jack and Tammi remove the CL ads? I am having a hard time finding them.

Could be me though, I am pulling another all nighter.

Maybe..the fb page was gone too.

ETA, I just checked again and fb was there....must have been a fluke for me.

 

[time]

"I think it is only a matter of time before it sinks in with EJ though, and seepage is evident as she started spilling in a phone call to TS -- IMO the total wash, or cleansing is not too far away -" Prof

I think this is something many of us can agree on, regardless of how things were done to get to this point. I actually have very high hopes given EJ is finally upset with Tammi. Although it could be possible, I just think the whole "set-up" claim makes it less likely that Elizabeth found some couple on her own and handed Gabriel over or that Elizabeth masterminded that planning and that it was a last ditch effort to place Gabriel with 'somebody'.

Being 'set-up' could refer to EJ being led to think this was somewhat 'legal' or that she would not get a jail/prison term from it. I can see some mumbo jumbo mixed with examples convincing her she was doing a 'closed adoption' and she had some legal avenue to do that (more like, once it's done, it's done).

Let's say that through Tammi or some chain of connections, there was a person or couple that Elizabeth handed Gabriel over to. It's possible that Elizabeth did sign some faux papers. I think there is some truth to her comments about a "closed adoption" and how you are not supposed to have contact or know who the adoptive parents are, where they live, etc. ... remember, it was the Smith's who thought it was okay to take Gabriel and not even have Elizabeth come to their house (that's what they claim anyway). That is very hinky to me from the get go.

If Elizabeth handed Gabriel over any description(s) could be less than helpful in finding this person or couple. All she can say otherwise is how anyone else was involved.

Many or most of the Smith's comments and actions can be seen as damage control or as providing an excuse for why certain evidence will show up (as one poster said in that Levi interview - about obtaining an illegal SS# and possible searches that could be found on the Smith's computer).

 

[LCoastMom]

http://www.associatedcontent.com/article/2576139/missing_baby_gabriel_mom_charged_w.html?cat=25

O/T, but this just makes me angry. We have an 8th amendment to The Constitution of the United States.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eighth_Amendment_to_the_United_States_Constitution

If this was "just a case of interfering with custody" and I don't want this taken wrong; I'm not minimizing that charge - it is a felony. I mean if she had taken the baby, then returned home with the baby, healthy and well and returned custody to his father. I might be inclined to agree. But right now there is no proof that she didn't do what she admitted to Baby Gabe's father. Or just as bad, did she sell him?

Originally Posted By time
NMK... I understand, I guess I reacted a bit. I am one who thinks the Smith's are in this up to their eyeballs. I'm really afraid that EJ may have turned Gabriel over to someone and doesn't have much information to give about that. I'm really concerned given that last conversation that Tammi says she had with her - mostly because it just validated to me that Tammi did set her up and Tammi knows it's going to be really difficult for EJ to prove that (plus, who knows what else was going on that could complicate things).

I know others will not agree and I could be wrong, but I do not think that EJ is staying quiet just to get back at Logan or to do anything just to keep Gabriel from him now. I think the convo she had with her grandfather also makes some sense in light of this - she's gonna get 20 years no matter what

If she is found to be suffering from PPD, or any one of a dozen other mental or emotional ailments, she might do 60 months - I don't believe if she has a "mental illness" she will get 20 years, unless Baby Gabe is truly gone.

Look at the interview the Smith's did claiming they offered to do the poly at their first meeting with LE.. & watch the one right after the poly, where they claim they thought they would be given immediate results. In one (or both) of those TS said she only heard from EJ by text saying "Sorry I know you are worried....." there is never mention of a call where Gabe was in the background. They clearly said, they had not heard from her.


This has me sick to my stomach, knowing what the possibilities are here. None of them are good. The Smith's involvement has been changing with the weather. Lies change. The truth - always stays the same. TS is trying to make herself out to be a kind and benevolent Good Samaritan - she reminds me of Sue Baker, she knows much more than she is telling.

One other thing that bothers me and I wish we knew more, but I'm sure LE has looked at it... that is Tammi's claim that she didn't know EJ was already arrested when she sent her an email on December 31st. Even if she didn't know EJ had been arrested, I'd have to say she knew it was imminent and sent that email to make herself look innocent. I also suspect she told EJ what kinds of emails to send her - knowing how it would look to investigators and helping to clear herself. I doubt EJ would have realized she was being set-up. It's not that she's not a very smart cookie, I just think she got blind sided by someone who is much more of a pro at all this.It's possible EJ also thought for some reason she was not going to be in that much trouble if she was caught.

I think you may have nailed this. Either TS knows exactly where Gabe is or she knows who has him. Possibly more information than EJ has. Has her (TS) affect ever changed? Has she ever appeared really concerned?

 

[BeanE]

I just think the whole "set-up" claim makes it less likely that Elizabeth found some couple on her own and handed Gabriel over or that Elizabeth masterminded that planning and that it was a last ditch effort to place Gabriel with 'somebody'.

It's a shame not to look at the possibility of Elizabeth acting on her own, because Gabe, if still with us, is a defenseless baby in grave danger. He deserves every chance that can be given to him to be found and returned to safety.