The state Rests in The State v. Jodi Arias: break in trial until 28 January 2013 #12

[katiecoolady]

I'm ready for this in depth discussion---where are the resident experts?opcorn:

I'll start in on the popcorn while you start the discussion.

 

[LinasK]

I have family members who have BPD and yes, EXHAUSTING is the word. I think it's a lot like alcoholism, in that it is a family disease--everyone around the person suffers tremendously. Jeez the drama, the manufactured drama, the accusations, the roller coaster relationships, the manipulation. Really, a relationship with a borderline is like having a tiger by the tail.

And what's worse, the two borderline's in my family got much worse when they hit middle age ---- the crazy increased and burned bright. I have one who is past that age and one who is in the middle. The older one's crazy has mellowed with age, the middle-aged one is in raging crazy right now.

It's too bad, if you get near to try and help, you end up getting bit.

Does Borderline mean Bi-Polar? If so, I know 2 of them, a female and a male. The male being my BIL unfortunately,and he does have a rollercoaster relationship with us- alternating hating us and being okay "Man, I love you!"(huggy). He's scary because he's a huge guy and has a history of substance abuse. He particularly hates my husband- (he was married to DH's sister), but that's not why.

 

[kkdj]

I'll take my brother with his diagnosis of Schizophrenia any day of the week over a Personality Disorder. Who, also, by the way, after 20 years of extreme symptoms is about 99% symptom free. This last year has been walking in a miracle. It's like he "woke up" like those patients in the movie Awakenings. My brother is back...after all these years. Tangent but just wanted to share because it's the biggest joy and light in my life.

So happy for you and your bro! This is wonderful!
I have a very good friend for over 20 years that was diagnosed with bipolar. What a struggle! But, she is on meds that are working great for her. She is a very successful woman and happy. But without her meds...oh boy!

 

[Linda7NJ]

They break up and become friends with benefits. JA clearly cannot handle this evidenced by the stalking. If someone is not handling a break up and a FWB deal that they continue to have strong feelings and want more from the relationship. Despite this, he continues to have sex with her and go on (and completely paying for) mini-vacations with her. He was using her.

I do not see how his behavior can be interpreted as kind or honorable. I also do not see how one could argue that he was doing all this because he was afraid of further abuse or that she would kill herself.

Am I missing something? Maybe I'm crazy - projecting too much lol.

I would agree. His continuing to engage her wasn't kind or honorable. I would also agree he enjoyed the sex, is it using when the other person is using sex to manipulate? Or is it a push? I think we can agree they used each other for sex. Both had their own reasons and agenda for doing so.

 

[katiecoolady]

God I'm a blabberfingers right now but seeing JA in interrogation talking about how "persuasive" TA with her trying to get her to move to Mesa. This reminds me of how a pedophile talks about how a child was "seductive" and inviting them in to the sexual encounter. (blech)

 

[LinasK]

They break up and become friends with benefits. JA clearly cannot handle this evidenced by the stalking. If someone is not handling a break up and a FWB deal that they continue to have strong feelings and want more from the relationship. Despite this, he continues to have sex with her and go on (and completely paying for) mini-vacations with her. He was using her.

I do not see how his behavior can be interpreted as kind or honorable. I also do not see how one could argue that he was doing all this because he was afraid of further abuse or that she would kill herself.

Am I missing something? Maybe I'm crazy - projecting too much lol.

Yeah, but who really initiated the breakup, and who re-initiated the sex? We only have Jodi's side of the story and she's a liar...

 

[Linda7NJ]

I'm ready for this in depth discussion---where are the resident experts?opcorn:

Would love to...but I'm fading fast.

 

[katiecoolady]

Does Borderline mean Bi-Polar? If so, I know 2 of them, a female and a male. The male being my BIL unfortunately,and he does have a rollercoaster relationship with us- alternating hating us and being okay "Man, I love you!"(huggy). He's scary because he's a huge guy and has a history of substance abuse. He particularly hates my husband- (he was married to DH's sister), but that's not why.

Totally different diagnoses Linas. Not that they can't occur together. Bipolar is manic/depression. BPD is a disorder of the very fabric of someone's personality and identity. Bipolar is more of a chemical imbalance and much more treatable.

 

[thefragile7393]

I would agree. His continuing to engage her wasn't kind or honorable. I would also agree he enjoyed the sex, is it using when the other person is using sex to manipulate? Or is it a push? I think we can agree they used each other for sex. Both had their own reasons and agenda for doing so.

they engaged each other....it wasn't kind or honorable of her to continue to engage him for sex either.

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[Linda7NJ]

they engaged each other....it wasn't kind or honorable of her to continue to engage him for sex either.

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Agreed.

 

[LadyEdith]

Women biologically are not wired to be detached when it comes to sexuality.

Especially someone with BPD, jeez, their whole life is looking for evidence that they are not "special", no matter how "special" they are treated, they cannot "hold" those feeligs, they are obsessed with what they are NOT getting. Even if Travis HAD married Jodi, she would have been miserable because Travis was an extrovert and very outgoing toward everyone, including women. The nosing through accounts would have never ended. The hole can't be filled no matter what.

 

[thefragile7393]

This isn't for the truth of the matter but just to share. I once asked one of our Psychologists on our unit what he saw as the difference between a Borderline and a Sociopath and he said "a sociopath is a borderline who's crossed the line in to criminal behavior". Thoughts? All of these personality disorders are so blended too. I mean I never met a borderline who wasn't also quite Narcissistic.

I got a similar answer from one of the docs at work. I think it is a fair assessment, and your thoughts are pretty dead on.

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[Karmady]

They break up and become friends with benefits. JA clearly cannot handle this evidenced by the stalking. If someone is not handling a break up and a FWB deal that they continue to have strong feelings and want more from the relationship. Despite this, he continues to have sex with her and go on (and completely paying for) mini-vacations with her. He was using her.

I do not see how his behavior can be interpreted as kind or honorable. I also do not see how one could argue that he was doing all this because he was afraid of further abuse or that she would kill herself.

Am I missing something? Maybe I'm crazy - projecting too much lol.

Anything's possible, but I agree with you that this assessment is more likely an accurate one and have thought so since the beginning. Just wanted to let you know you're not alone since it's not a very popular pov

 

[LadyEdith]

I'll start in on the popcorn while you start the discussion.

I'm afraid I'm not qualified, just an armchair psychiatrist, with rx rights.

 

[minor4th]

This isn't for the truth of the matter but just to share. I once asked one of our Psychologists on our unit what he saw as the difference between a Borderline and a Sociopath and he said "a sociopath is a borderline who's crossed the line in to criminal behavior". Thoughts? All of these personality disorders are so blended too. I mean I never met a borderline who wasn't also quite Narcissistic.

I think BPD's in particular are recognized by their tumultuous relationships, revenge seeking, and frantic, stalker behaviors. I think empathy failure is the most recognizable trait of APD's and pathological sense of entitlement distinguishes narcissists.

I don't know that there's much use in the differentiations because they are all personality disordered (character defect) and they all lack insight, refuse to take responsiblity and resist treatment

Again, I am in no way a psych expert -- but I do deal with people affected by personality disordered individuals on a daily basis

 

[LinasK]

they engaged each other....it wasn't kind or honorable of her to continue to engage him for sex either.

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Agreed! She knew he was extremely conflicted because of his commitment to his faith, and yet she didn't say, "No Travis, we can't do this!"

 

[kkdj]

When I read what yours did...It took me awhile to even process it. Horrifying !!!

Like I said, a stalker is a breed all their own.
They cannot be right in the head......or the heart.

 

[ATasteOfHoney]

Does Borderline mean Bi-Polar? If so, I know 2 of them, a female and a male. The male being my BIL unfortunately,and he does have a rollercoaster relationship with us- alternating hating us and being okay "Man, I love you!"(huggy). He's scary because he's a huge guy and has a history of substance abuse. He particularly hates my husband- (he was married to DH's sister), but that's not why.

BBM: No, Borderline Personality Disorder is not Bi-Polar. Bi-Polar is a "Mood Disorder" while BPD is a personality disorder.
One little tidbit of difference between them (and there are many) is that with a Mood Disorder, there will by cycles of mania or depression. Sometimes these cycles occur quickly (cyclothymic) and sometimes over the course of six months.
On the other hand...
BPD can change minute by minute between rage, clinginess, "I hate you; don't leave me", forgetting there was an incident ten minutes ago, etc...

 

[lil_buddy]

This isn't for the truth of the matter but just to share. I once asked one of our Psychologists on our unit what he saw as the difference between a Borderline and a Sociopath and he said "a sociopath is a borderline who's crossed the line in to criminal behavior". Thoughts? All of these personality disorders are so blended too. I mean I never met a borderline who wasn't also quite Narcissistic.

I read the difference between Narcissist/Histrionic/Borderline/Antisocial wrt bad behavior is motivation. Antisocial PD is motivated by the need for stimulation; Narcissist by the need to maintain their superior self-image; histrionic the need for attention; borderlines fear abandonment.
They all lack empathy.

 

[LadyEdith]

Does Borderline mean Bi-Polar? If so, I know 2 of them, a female and a male. The male being my BIL unfortunately,and he does have a rollercoaster relationship with us- alternating hating us and being okay "Man, I love you!"(huggy). He's scary because he's a huge guy and has a history of substance abuse. He particularly hates my husband- (he was married to DH's sister), but that's not why.

No--bipolar is a MOOD disorder, borderline personality disorder is a personality disorder. Bipolar is highly treatable with medication, BPD, not so much.