Theory Thread - What happened at Pistorius' house on the night of Feb. 13, 2013?

[808]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Criminal_procedure_in_South_Africa#Bail_pending_appeal

"The provisions of section 60 do not apply to bail pending appeal, although they may still be relevant to the extent that they embody common-law concepts. The fact that the person is now convicted and sentenced to imprisonment changes the position practically: There is no longer a presumption of innocence, on the one hand; on the other hand, the incentive to evade justice is greater. In principle, bail may be granted even if the case is serious and the convicted person is facing a long period of imprisonment. The key factor is whether or not the convicted person will report for sentence.[132] It is improper to fix an unaffordable amount of bail if there are good prospects of success on appeal.[133]

Even if there is no indication that the convicted person will try to evade justice, bail may be refused on the ground that the prospects of success on appeal are small.[134][135] Some cases, however, have found that bail should not lightly be refused on this ground alone, especially by the lower courts, which do not have experience in assessing the prospects of a successful appeal.[136][137]"

This appears to suggest that if Nel and the Judge have sealed this up to be a simple pre-meditated execution of someone in a locked box, then it looks highly unlikely his bail will continue.

He has plenty of cash, a hothead and a "I never lose" attitude. I believe it is the right thing to revoke bail until the sentencing and inevitable appeals:moo:.

 

[Interested Bystander]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Criminal_procedure_in_South_Africa#Bail_pending_appeal

"The provisions of section 60 do not apply to bail pending appeal, although they may still be relevant to the extent that they embody common-law concepts. The fact that the person is now convicted and sentenced to imprisonment changes the position practically: There is no longer a presumption of innocence, on the one hand; on the other hand, the incentive to evade justice is greater. In principle, bail may be granted even if the case is serious and the convicted person is facing a long period of imprisonment. The key factor is whether or not the convicted person will report for sentence.[132] It is improper to fix an unaffordable amount of bail if there are good prospects of success on appeal.[133]

Even if there is no indication that the convicted person will try to evade justice, bail may be refused on the ground that the prospects of success on appeal are small.[134][135] Some cases, however, have found that bail should not lightly be refused on this ground alone, especially by the lower courts, which do not have experience in assessing the prospects of a successful appeal.[136][137]"

This appears to suggest that if Nel and the Judge have sealed this up to be a simple pre-meditated execution of someone in a locked box, then it looks highly unlikely his bail will continue.

He has plenty of cash, a hothead and a "I never lose" attitude. I believe it is the right thing to revoke bail until the sentencing and inevitable appeals:moo:.

Any reason why you chose to ignore this sentence?

 

[Interested Bystander]

Yes, house arrest - a cage in Uncle Arnold’s basement. LOL

No, Fox, the ankle bling wouldn’t work - OP would just remove the ankle! :lol:

:floorlaugh::floorlaugh:

 

[JudgeJudi]

Forgive my ignorance but if the family posted bail for OP and he 'did a runner'.... so to speak.
Would the poster of the bail not then be held accountable for OP's actions.
Like a guarantor would be with a mortgage, or the like?
Sorry if this is a silly question I just can't see how he would be allowed to just 'disappear' if convicted and then let out on bail without someone being held to account!

Before a person goes to trial and is given bail and then fails to appear, a warrant for the person's arrest is usually ordered immediately and bail will be forfeited. The accused, once arrested, must be able to prove to the court that they were unable to attend. If sufficient proof is provided, the guarantor may get their money back. However, in this case we're talking about a person who may get bail if found guilty. This is obviously a totally different scenario, and if guilty of murder it would be extremely serious.

If OP fled to a country with an expedition treaty, the Court would apply to that country to have him extradited. I understand that the neighbouring country of Mozambique has no such treaty with South Africa and Uncle Arnold owns seaside properties there. If he's found guilty and if he's given bail, I think he should be under 24 hour surveillance to prevent him absconding - but do they do this - I don't know.

 

[808]

Any reason why you chose to ignore this sentence?

Not ignoring the sentence, what I am saying is that the Judge has discretion here (Will OP report for sentence?). Given the clear (At least to me) circumstances of the case she should revoke bail given that he is a flight risk.
He is a flight risk because he has means, motive (25 yr sentence) and opportunity if given bail.
If I had just seen him for the first time in court I would judge him as :
- Entitled
- Mendacious (Thanks Nel.)
- Untrustworthy
- Immature
- If not murderous then unhinged.
Just because he hasn't been caught fighting and drinking on his current bail conditions doesn't mean that facing 25 years in jail won't motivate him to use his power and money to disappear.
I would take him off the streets for the Steenkamp's and society in general. (But I am no Judge or law expert).

Anyway I hope that explains my assessment of this and my opinion only :moo:.

 

[JudgeJudi]

Seeing as how Masipa managed to have both the defence and prosecution finish their HOA in a day each, I hope that Masipa can limit her verdict to one day as well so that at the end of the day, we know what charges he is found guilty/innocent of.

I think it's highly likely to take two days. She will be reading her reasons for judgment. This will, I would imagine, canvass both the reasons why she has chosen to accept certain evidence and witnesses as opposed to the other side's evidence and witnesses, i.e. say, why she has preferred the testimony of Mangena to that of Wolmarans. These decisions will be backed up by case law. Masipa has to do this because an error in law is a major ground for appeal. JMO

 

[JudgeJudi]

Originally Posted by Jake18

"I saw it too, but ages ago, maybe just after Reeva was murdered, I'm sure we're not BOTH delusional.

I think there's going to be a whole heap of stuff that comes out after he's convicted. It's already trickling out now".

BIB, Like what?

Published on 24 August 2014

“He completely freaked out. He started screaming and swearing. He even kicked the garage door leading into his house so hard that we got a fright. As soon as he went into his house I could hear him screaming even louder and swearing constantly.

"My friend and I were petrified. We jumped into our cars without saying a word and drove off because we didn’t know what Oscar would do next,” Francois told the magazine.

After the threat, Louw ended the contract and said he hoped it would be the last time he would see the murder-accused athlete.

Oscar’s management declined to comment on the story".

http://www.all4women.co.za/entertai...list-breaks-silence-on-frightening-bad-temper

 

[Interested Bystander]

Not ignoring the sentence, what I am saying is that the Judge has discretion here (Will OP report for sentence?). Given the clear (At least to me) circumstances of the case she should revoke bail given that he is a flight risk.
He is a flight risk because he has means, motive (25 yr sentence) and opportunity if given bail.
If I had just seen him for the first time in court I would judge him as :
- Entitled
- Mendacious (Thanks Nel.)
- Untrustworthy
- Immature
- If not murderous then unhinged.
Just because he hasn't been caught fighting and drinking on his current bail conditions doesn't mean that facing 25 years in jail won't motivate him to use his power and money to disappear.
I would take him off the streets for the Steenkamp's and society in general. (But I am no Judge or law expert).

Anyway I hope that explains my assessment of this and my opinion only :moo:.

I think it is perfectly possible that Masipa will not grant an appeal but I have read many lawyers who say she will because she is sure of her verdict. Sounds contradictory doesn't it! He can of course appeal to an even higher court who may/may not grant it. Who knows. All should become clearer next week.

 

[Fuskier]

http://www.ibtimes.com/oscar-pistorius-trial-timeline-key-dates-7-days-verdict-1679200

Oscar Pistorius Trial: Timeline Of Key Dates With 7 Days Before Verdict
By Anthony Riccobono on September 04 2014 7:01 PM

With the trial coming to a close, a lot has happened that will affect the judge’s final decision. Below is a timeline of key dates in the Oscar Pistorius trial.

Trial Begins (March 3)
Pistorius Cries and Vomits (March 10)
Pistorius Takes the Stand (April 7)
Mental Health Evaluation Begins (May 26)
Trial Resumes (June 30)
Bar Fight (July 12)
Closing Arguments (August 7)
Verdict (September 11)

There are several verdict possibilities, and Pistorius faces charges of murder, culpable homicide, illegal ammunition, and two charges of firing a gun in public.

 

[foxbluff]

Yes, house arrest - a cage in Uncle Arnold’s basement. LOL

No, Fox, the ankle bling wouldn’t work - OP would just remove the ankle! :lol:

Oh my gawd... the joke is really on me now!! I just want to say DANG all of you who are belly laughing at my expense!!





ok... I'll have to DANG myself too.

 

[808]

Trophies article "Death Flat"

http://www.dailystar.co.uk/news/lat...rius-trophies-were-strewn-all-over-death-flat

"The Daily Star Sunday can reveal the amputee runner’s prized trophies were strewn across the floor when officers arrived – and some were damaged."

Of course no picture of said broken trophies just "police sources say".

http://zeenews.india.com/sports/oth...oor-on-night-of-steenkamps-murder_758203.html

This is the CNN feed from the day of testimony where Van Rensberg describes the scene (No mention of broken trophies).
http://cnnworldlive.cnn.com/Event/Oscar_Pistorius_trial_4?Page=30

Picture shows the lounge, the guitar to the right is below the shelf he had for his trophies.


This is the best evidence I can find. (Still might be true :moo.

 

[Interested Bystander]

Trophies article "Death Flat"

http://www.dailystar.co.uk/news/lat...rius-trophies-were-strewn-all-over-death-flat

"The Daily Star Sunday can reveal the amputee runner’s prized trophies were strewn across the floor when officers arrived – and some were damaged."

Of course no picture of said broken trophies just "police sources say".

http://zeenews.india.com/sports/oth...oor-on-night-of-steenkamps-murder_758203.html

This is the CNN feed from the day of testimony where Van Rensberg describes the scene (No mention of broken trophies).
http://cnnworldlive.cnn.com/Event/Oscar_Pistorius_trial_4?Page=30

Picture shows the lounge, the guitar to the right is below the shelf he had for his trophies.
View attachment 58188

This is the best evidence I can find. (Still might be true :moo.

Well done you! I saw this at the time and at first thought it looked as though there could have been a collection of "something"
on the floor. However, I put the photo through Photoshop and determined that the "mess" was in fact a hide with coloured patches on it that did, at first glance, look like items strewn on the floor. On the hide is a big leather cushion or similar. The hide can be seen in later photos.

EDIT I forgot to add that there is a person crouched down in front of the pouffe/large leather cushion.

I have attached my photo but it is no better than the one you have already posted once clicked.

 

[foxbluff]

:floorlaugh::floorlaugh:

Et tu, Bystanda? ROFLOL

 

[AJ_DS]

Putting your head above the parapet again. You are a glutton for punishment. :happydance:

What are you referring to ??















:innocent:

 

[AJ_DS]

Et tu, Bystanda? ROFLOL

French spell check…

Et tu, Bystanda? = Es-tu, Bystanda?

:kickcan:

 

[JudgeJudi]

One week before the verdict ... what do you think is going through Oscar's mind right NOW?

I'm so :scared: of going to :jail: All I want to do is :hills:

raying: :sorry: ... "Too late to be sorry buddy".

The family walk in. :therethere: Lots of :hug: Lots of raying:

raying: "Lord, please help me." "No. You only pray for yourself, what I can do for you".

lease: :tears: anic: :countsheep: doesn't work.

:needdrink: :needdrink: :needdrink: :sick: uke:

:bed: :jail:

 

[PrimeSuspect]

I hope that is what is going to happen. I am not too sure why anybody thinks I want something else. I think he is as guilty as hell. If he get bail everyone will feel it is OP getting preferential treatment again, me included.

I feel the same IB, I want to be wrong more than anything. I hope the Sept 11 or 12, he's off to jail. :jail:

 

[JudgeJudi]

Is this the right link. I cannot see anything to do with OP. Maybe I am looking in the wrong place.

The whole page is about OP and there's a big blank spot in the middle of the screen, so keep scrolling to read all of it.

“I’m not saying anyone did this, but witnesses could tailor their evidence,” Tuson said, “and if that’s the finding of the court—that Pistorius did not get a fair trial—then it would just start again.”

http://m.theepochtimes.com/n3/93288...ould-avoid-prison-in-reeva-sttenkamp-killing/

 

[Lux et Veritas]

If OP is found guilty, might the judge consider putting him under house arrest... providing him with some ankle bling... while awaiting appeal?

TOO LATE, FOX!!

 

[JudgeJudi]

If OP is found guilty, might the judge consider putting him under house arrest... providing him with some ankle bling... while awaiting appeal?

:floorlaugh: :floorlaugh:


Ankle bling? He'd just remove his whole leg.