Found Safe TN - Mary Catherine Elizabeth Thomas, 15, Maury County, 13 March 2017 #11

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Hatfield said:
Just because he is in deep trouble doesnt have anything to do with any trouble she would be in. TC has most likely tried to convince her otherwise.
Click to expand...


If she is willingly with him, that could be a concern to her, too. If she's still in that "in love" mindset with this guy, she's not going to want him to be in trouble either. She has to be beyond thinking she cares about what happens to him next for that to help, too.
 
Still no news ☹ Haven't been posting but this poor girl has been in my thoughts. I hope she comes home soon.
 
Hey Friends,
I signed up to comment on this case after skimming through the postings over the past month. I suppose I am interested for the same reasons as everyone and as I have a few kids, including a 15-year-old daughter. I also am directly acquainted with one of the families of one of the "DC missing girls" who turned out not to be missing in the way they were thought to be so the issue in general has been on my mind.

Here are my thoughts on this case.
1) it is a kidnapping. Yes there is a subtle difference an adult taking a 5-year-old by persuasion and a 16-year-old by persuasion. But that is not relevant as a minor simply cannot consent, and adults can't plead ignorance to the fact that this is a crime, and an in loca parentis teacher especially can be expected to know the law against this.
2) Sexual contact in this case is felony sexual assault, and likely rape.
3) the kidnapper in this case is just a basic run of the mill predator. The fact that attraction to post pubescent children is not the same as pedophilia does not matter. The laws against sexual contact and kidnapping are in place for a reason.
4) I think this child is in danger of both sexual assault, and also in danger of becoming a homicide victim, as the perpetrator may well reach depression as options become reduced.
5) I am not surprised they have not been found. yes, he is an idiot. Yes, not only is he not CIA, (that fake claim really just tells you he is a very low self esteem type who has to invent backstory) he has demonstrated a serious lack of knowledge of any of the basics of avoiding detection. His teaching of High school "forensics" is likely based on little to zero qualifications. The episode in the walmart shows a total lack of any sense of concealment. The average front stoop package pilferer and theft-from-auto low level criminal knows to wear a hoodie and a baseball cap pulled low to reduce ubiquitous security camera risks. so this guy is not a bight penny,
But the fact is it is a big country. They are not particularly noteworthy, They look like a grandfather and daughter or father and daughter. Rural areas are especially difficult to police. People in western society are notorious bad at identifying faces, they key on hair and clothes and if those are changed their identification by non-LEO would be low, or worse yet generate a huge number of false positives

6) He can't marry her in any US state, Canada or Mexico. Firstly duress is present by definition because of her kidnapping. Secondly he is married and looking at his state laws, the fact that he is a fugitive gives his current wife a lot of benefit of the doubt in asset division (and she needs to file in order to protect assets which would be an easy civil target for the victims family) but the actual divorce will take a while given one party is absent. I think it is more likely he researched child marriage so he could present the victim with partial information to convince her this is possible, when it is not.

7) the fact that the Walmart tape does not show physical duress is irrelevant. Trying to read their body language is not really meaningful to the crime except to show that catching maybe more difficult since he has created a false trust between himself and his victim
 
I can't believe there have been no more sightings of them. Where are you Elizabeth? Praying for you.
 
shifferbrainz said:
Forensics in High school is usually the debate team. Nothing to do with dead bodies.


Not to be confused with "Forensic medicine"

Google search for "forensic definition"

https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/forensic
Click to expand...

This was scientific or criminal forensics which is a science elective in many high schools. The link to the curriculum for Tad's school was shared earlier in the threads.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
Ran said:
Hey Friends,
I signed up to comment on this case after skimming through the postings over the past month. I suppose I am interested for the same reasons as everyone and as I have a few kids, including a 15-year-old daughter. I also am directly acquainted with one of the families of one of the "DC missing girls" who turned out not to be missing in the way they were thought to be so the issue in general has been on my mind.

Here are my thoughts on this case.
1) it is a kidnapping. Yes there is a subtle difference an adult taking a 5-year-old by persuasion and a 16-year-old by persuasion. But that is not relevant as a minor simply cannot consent, and adults can't plead ignorance to the fact that this is a crime, and an in loca parentis teacher especially can be expected to know the law against this.
2) Sexual contact in this case is felony sexual assault, and likely rape.
3) the kidnapper in this case is just a basic run of the mill predator. The fact that attraction to post pubescent children is not the same as pedophilia does not matter. The laws against sexual contact and kidnapping are in place for a reason.
4) I think this child is in danger of both sexual assault, and also in danger of becoming a homicide victim, as the perpetrator may well reach depression as options become reduced.
5) I am not surprised they have not been found. yes, he is an idiot. Yes, not only is he not CIA, (that fake claim really just tells you he is a very low self esteem type who has to invent backstory) he has demonstrated a serious lack of knowledge of any of the basics of avoiding detection. His teaching of High school "forensics" is likely based on little to zero qualifications. The episode in the walmart shows a total lack of any sense of concealment. The average front stoop package pilferer and theft-from-auto low level criminal knows to wear a hoodie and a baseball cap pulled low to reduce ubiquitous security camera risks. so this guy is not a bight penny,
But the fact is it is a big country. They are not particularly noteworthy, They look like a grandfather and daughter or father and daughter. Rural areas are especially difficult to police. People in western society are notorious bad at identifying faces, they key on hair and clothes and if those are changed their identification by non-LEO would be low, or worse yet generate a huge number of false positives

6) He can't marry her in any US state, Canada or Mexico. Firstly duress is present by definition because of her kidnapping. Secondly he is married and looking at his state laws, the fact that he is a fugitive gives his current wife a lot of benefit of the doubt in asset division (and she needs to file in order to protect assets which would be an easy civil target for the victims family) but the actual divorce will take a while given one party is absent. I think it is more likely he researched child marriage so he could present the victim with partial information to convince her this is possible, when it is not.

7) the fact that the Walmart tape does not show physical duress is irrelevant. Trying to read their body language is not really meaningful to the crime except to show that catching maybe more difficult since he has created a false trust between himself and his victim
Click to expand...

Great post. I agree with you

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Keep our heads up...this past week alone 3 possibly 4 cases have been "resolved".
 
shifferbrainz said:
Forensics in High school is usually the debate team. Nothing to do with dead bodies.


Not to be confused with "Forensic medicine"

Google search for "forensic definition"

https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/forensic
Click to expand...

often it is a debate society related course:
http://www.ihsfa.org/

But in this case it is likely science based criminal forensics. These practical science classes designed to get kids more interested in science than the more abstract physics, chem and bio high school science courses:
http://www.forsyth.k12.ga.us/cms/li.../Miller_Forensic Science Syllabus 2013-14.pdf

In any case the qualifications vary immensely. A simple degree in education and taking an online course would likely qualify a teacher to teach it in some places.
 
Ran said:
often it is a debate society related course:
http://www.ihsfa.org/

But in this case it is likely science based criminal forensics. These practical science classes designed to get kids more interested in science than the more abstract physics, chem and bio high school science courses:
http://www.forsyth.k12.ga.us/cms/li.../Miller_Forensic Science Syllabus 2013-14.pdf

In any case the qualifications vary immensely. A simple degree in education and taking an online course would likely qualify a teacher to teach it in some places.
Click to expand...

Yes, he qualified for a career tech position in the health sciences through the TN Dept of Ed. The link to his certificate and that info is in the discussions earlier but can be searched via the Dept of Ed too.:)


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
Ran said:
Hey Friends,
I signed up to comment on this case after skimming through the postings over the past month. I suppose I am interested for the same reasons as everyone and as I have a few kids, including a 15-year-old daughter. I also am directly acquainted with one of the families of one of the "DC missing girls" who turned out not to be missing in the way they were thought to be so the issue in general has been on my mind.

Here are my thoughts on this case.
1) it is a kidnapping. Yes there is a subtle difference an adult taking a 5-year-old by persuasion and a 16-year-old by persuasion. But that is not relevant as a minor simply cannot consent, and adults can't plead ignorance to the fact that this is a crime, and an in loca parentis teacher especially can be expected to know the law against this.
2) Sexual contact in this case is felony sexual assault, and likely rape.
3) the kidnapper in this case is just a basic run of the mill predator. The fact that attraction to post pubescent children is not the same as pedophilia does not matter. The laws against sexual contact and kidnapping are in place for a reason.
4) I think this child is in danger of both sexual assault, and also in danger of becoming a homicide victim, as the perpetrator may well reach depression as options become reduced.
5) I am not surprised they have not been found. yes, he is an idiot. Yes, not only is he not CIA, (that fake claim really just tells you he is a very low self esteem type who has to invent backstory) he has demonstrated a serious lack of knowledge of any of the basics of avoiding detection. His teaching of High school "forensics" is likely based on little to zero qualifications. The episode in the walmart shows a total lack of any sense of concealment. The average front stoop package pilferer and theft-from-auto low level criminal knows to wear a hoodie and a baseball cap pulled low to reduce ubiquitous security camera risks. so this guy is not a bight penny,
But the fact is it is a big country. They are not particularly noteworthy, They look like a grandfather and daughter or father and daughter. Rural areas are especially difficult to police. People in western society are notorious bad at identifying faces, they key on hair and clothes and if those are changed their identification by non-LEO would be low, or worse yet generate a huge number of false positives

6) He can't marry her in any US state, Canada or Mexico. Firstly duress is present by definition because of her kidnapping. Secondly he is married and looking at his state laws, the fact that he is a fugitive gives his current wife a lot of benefit of the doubt in asset division (and she needs to file in order to protect assets which would be an easy civil target for the victims family) but the actual divorce will take a while given one party is absent. I think it is more likely he researched child marriage so he could present the victim with partial information to convince her this is possible, when it is not.

7) the fact that the Walmart tape does not show physical duress is irrelevant. Trying to read their body language is not really meaningful to the crime except to show that catching maybe more difficult since he has created a false trust between himself and his victim
Click to expand...
Welcome!
Your post was great and I agree.
 
BessDrew said:
This was scientific or criminal forensics which is a science elective in many high schools. The link to the curriculum for Tad's school was shared earlier in the threads.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Click to expand...

I stand corrected, thanks for this. Now I am in the same mindset in this facet of the story, as it puts an interesting, yet disturbing twist into the case. Something to add to my already occurring nightmares about this.
 
Does anyone know if he was on vacation in the last few years out west?

You know, I was thinking like in our city, there are places that he could park during the day, but the park closes at night, like Palmer Park. There are hiking trails and different places to park, with picnic benches, etc.
That could be one way they could be undetected in the daylight, if he visited areas such as the example I gave.

Just trying to brainstorm.

IMOO.
 
BessDrew said:
Yes, he qualified for a career tech position in the health sciences through the TN Dept of Ed. The link to his certificate and that info is in the discussions earlier but can be searched via the Dept of Ed too.:)


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Click to expand...
Bess, Thanks.
Looking at that he did not need specialized degree, grad degree or any experience in the field. it is simply a certification able to be done wih an online course.

The main impetus for this type of course for high school students is "practical science" as a way have some science education besides theoretical science. I applaud the idea of it to get students interested in the practicality of science, a sexy hook, the idea of scoientific inquiry on a topic. But it appears considerably less rigorous than the average Chem, Bio or Physics class.

I think all of us know that while there are a small number of super qualified and super dedicated STEM teachers in the public school systems, that overall STEM public school teachers are less likely to be highly educated or achiever in their field compared to other public school educators. A person who wants to go into public education with a sociology, English lit or french language, degree from a top university is still entering a competative job environment, whereas there is a dirth of people with STEM degrees competing for high school jobs.

My sister had an undergrad in fine arts and grad degree in education from a very good university and was in a very competitive glut of teachers in the public schools where she lived. She got a very basic certification to teach basic biology and her situation reversed.

My point is the kidnapper having taught this High School forensics course does not imply a serious or even practical knowledge of the field or much in preparing for this crime or evading capture, The fact that his computer history was not properly concealed, the fact he was sporting his goatee two days and hundred of miles later, the fact that he went to a walmart show me that.
 
Ran said:
Bess, Thanks.
Looking at that he did not need specialized degree, grad degree or any experience in the field. it is simply a certification able to be done wih an online course.

The main impetus for this type of course for high school students is "practical science" as a way have some science education besides theoretical science. I applaud the idea of it to get students interested in the practicality of science, a sexy hook, the idea of scoientific inquiry on a topic. But it appears considerably less rigorous than the average Chem, Bio or Physics class.

I think all of us know that while there are a small number of super qualified and super dedicated STEM teachers in the public school systems, that overall STEM public school teachers are less likely to be highly educated or achiever in their field compared to other public school educators. A person who wants to go into public education with a sociology, English lit or french language, degree from a top university is still entering a competative job environment, whereas there is a dirth of people with STEM degrees competing for high school jobs.

My sister had an undergrad in fine arts and grad degree in education from a very good university and was in a very competitive glut of teachers in the public schools where she lived. She got a very basic certification to teach basic biology and her situation reversed.

My point is the kidnapper having taught this High School forensics course does not imply a serious or even practical knowledge of the field or much in preparing for this crime or evading capture, The fact that his computer history was not properly concealed, the fact he was sporting his goatee two days and hundred of miles later, the fact that he went to a walmart show me that.
Click to expand...

For sure, there are 7 educators in my family including me. While this is the typical path to career tech certification, it's not the equivalent to education degrees that I and others possess.

Like many electives, the teacher would be responsible for educating themselves on the specific niche of forensics. I haven't heard any staff speak to how devoted he was to lesson prep/planning which might suggest how well he would know the subject.

I know when I taught electives, I read and prepped extensively. But we don't have any indication what he was like professionally as a teacher.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
Ran said:
Bess, Thanks.
Looking at that he did not need specialized degree, grad degree or any experience in the field. it is simply a certification able to be done wih an online course.

The main impetus for this type of course for high school students is "practical science" as a way have some science education besides theoretical science. I applaud the idea of it to get students interested in the practicality of science, a sexy hook, the idea of scoientific inquiry on a topic. But it appears considerably less rigorous than the average Chem, Bio or Physics class.

I think all of us know that while there are a small number of super qualified and super dedicated STEM teachers in the public school systems, that overall STEM public school teachers are less likely to be highly educated or achiever in their field compared to other public school educators. A person who wants to go into public education with a sociology, English lit or french language, degree from a top university is still entering a competative job environment, whereas there is a dirth of people with STEM degrees competing for high school jobs.

My sister had an undergrad in fine arts and grad degree in education from a very good university and was in a very competitive glut of teachers in the public schools where she lived. She got a very basic certification to teach basic biology and her situation reversed.

My point is the kidnapper having taught this High School forensics course does not imply a serious or even practical knowledge of the field or much in preparing for this crime or evading capture, The fact that his computer history was not properly concealed, the fact he was sporting his goatee two days and hundred of miles later, the fact that he went to a walmart show me that.
Click to expand...

TC had an AAS degree, only 2 years of study in Respiratory Health and no prior experience teaching.
 
mintgelato said:
If she is willingly with him, that could be a concern to her, too. If she's still in that "in love" mindset with this guy, she's not going to want him to be in trouble either. She has to be beyond thinking she cares about what happens to him next for that to help, too.
Click to expand...

I'm thinking that here "willingness" to go (in quotes since I don't think she wanted to go) was because she was in "trouble", "trouble" that he created. One thing mentioned in grooming was that the groomer would be saving the victim from problems, problems they often create. IMO he convinced her he was solving a problem, and she had no other option. That's sad if true, The search for the age of consent? More that he was making things "right"

And if a person/person is hiding them/giving them safe harbor it would explain the lack of sightings. Person/persons would be offering life support (food, shelter).
Why? TC could have arranged with them that he was "helping" ET, that the alternative was objectionable to them. That arranging could be the mission completed. Now this person/persons need to continue to support to avoid legal trouble. And there were organizations in the past that assist people in these "trouble" situations and took actions that skirted the law in the name of a greater good. This would explain a lot, the disappearance, lack of sightings, ability to stay under the radar.

MOO
 
Irishboy said:
I'm thinking that here "willingness" to go (in quotes since I don't think she wanted to go) was because she was in "trouble", "trouble" that he created. One thing mentioned in grooming was that the groomer would be saving the victim from problems, problems they often create. IMO he convinced her he was solving a problem, and she had no other option. That's sad if true, The search for the age of consent? More that he was making things "right"

And if a person/person is hiding them/giving them safe harbor it would explain the lack of sightings. Person/persons would be offering life support (food, shelter).
Why? TC could have arranged with them that he was "helping" ET, that the alternative was objectionable to them. That arranging could be the mission completed. Now this person/persons need to continue to support to avoid legal trouble. And there were organizations in the past that assist people in these "trouble" situations and took actions that skirted the law in the name of a greater good. This would explain a lot, the disappearance, lack of sightings, ability to stay under the radar.

MOO
Click to expand...

If he had help, then these people would be helping harbor a fugitive and a kidnapping victim, whether they realize that or not. No skirting the law on that one technically.

IMOO.
 
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