trial day 37: the defense continues its case in chief #109

[Whisperer]

She has never been a licensed psychologist in California, just an assistant under Charles Thomas Stockton until his license was revoked. Anyone could work as a 'mental health professional' in CA with no particular education or training at all, but she didn't become a licensed Marriage & Family Counselor until 1992. As you heard from her testimony, the grant money was there to pay her for that project she described--getting men reduced prison time in exchange for counseling--until the money ran out.

So she's a social worker with a Masters in Family Counseling. are workig for a Licensed PHD or MD? Are you saying she worked in the prison system also? IF so, I can tell many stories about SWs in the prisons....none of them good.

 

[kkdj]

No worries! I should've worded it differently. Not that I believe the camping trip exists, but how dumb was it of her to even say that? I can't even wrap my brain around the fact that she thought bringing a gun to protect herself sounded logical...as opposed to just not going on a trip with people you didn't feel safe with.

Sent from my Desire HD using Tapatalk 2

Dontcha think she was getting the heck outa dodge, had weapons and clothes in her car, and to make an excuse as to where she was going and why with all of that?

 

[Schuby]

Dontcha think she was getting the heck outa dodge, had weapons and clothes in her car, and to make an excuse as to where she was going and why with all of that?

That is what I have always thought.

 

[Juli]

Some photos are dark because no flash was used, but flash was used in the first two photos, 5:22:24 and 5:22:36, and flash was used several more photos in the first minute of the 8-minute shower before she attacked him, so there is no way he didn't know she was there. JA testified the shower door was open the whole time, that the water pressure in his shower was so low that there was no danger of the camera getting wet, and Mykerk explained on Post #557 on Thread 80 that what looks like water droplets from a closed shower door was actually a well-known phenomenon and that the door was not closed.

In the shot at 1:48 on the video below, he appears to be curled in the shower lying on the floor on his right side, with his arm raised. That is one of the oddest photos of all, yet nobody has commented on it. Take a look and see if anyone can figure out why she posed him that way. Or am I seeing it wrong? Recall that JA said that Travis was "on his knees" in the shower at one point.

Shower Pics of Travis Alexander - YouTube

Thank you for your input as to a different scenario. I need to think about it more. JA's change of position and light above the shower is what is making the pictures brighter in 5:24:52 and 5:24:56 *I think.* From the first timestamped picture to when Travis looks startled is just about 5 minutes. The pictures are really lacking in quality; something that doesn't make sense for somebody who was supposedly doing a photo shoot, so I'm not convinced she wasn't taking these photos through the door. It's just not the water droplets, but the glare and haziness from what appears to be from taking photos through a clear door. I don't believe a word that comes out of JA's mouth, so I can't consider that at all.

5:28:54 is the picture I think you're talking about. I did notice that it looks like he is curled up on the floor. That is one of the pictures I was referring to when I said something other than just taking pictures was happening after he looks startled.

So do you think those pictures were taken while he was under duress or do you think he was a willing participant in the photos?

 

[Schuby]

Thank you for your input as to a different scenario. I need to think about it more. JA's change of position and light above the shower is what is making the pictures brighter in 5:24:52 and 5:24:56 *I think.* From the first timestamped picture to when Travis looks startled is just about 5 minutes. The pictures are really lacking in quality; something that doesn't make sense for somebody who was supposedly doing a photo shoot, so I'm not convinced she wasn't taking these photos through the door. It's just not the water droplets, but the glare and haziness from what appears to be from taking photos through a clear door. I don't believe a word that comes out of JA's mouth, so I can't consider that at all.

5:28:54 is the picture I think you're talking about. I did notice that it looks like he is curled up on the floor. That is one of the pictures I was referring to when I said something other than just taking pictures was happening after he looks startled.

So do you think those pictures were taken while he was under duress or do you think he was a willing participant in the photos?

Some of the quality issues come from the fact that these were recovered photos and had been deleted. The especially dark and blurry ones were recovered as thumbnails only. The state expert who recovered them testified to this early in the trial.

 

[Allyne Smithe]

So she's a social worker with a Masters in Family Counseling. are working for a Licensed PHD or MD? Are you saying she worked in the prison system also? IF so, I can tell many stories about them in the prisons....none of them good.

I haven't read her CV. I know California prisoners get better health care than regular citizens, but I don't know that she worked in the prison system. She said she worked in a funded program that offered male prisoners a chance to get reduced sentences if they agreed to counseling. Wonder how well that worked? I can see Jodi getting counseling and it doing nothing for her.

btw I see her office is on Pacific Coast Highway, one of the "1000 Places to Visit Before You Die," and one of just 11 in California. She's in a small commercial building right near the Long Beach Marina, an area I know well.

Thank you for your input as to a different scenario. I need to think about it more. JA's change of position and light above the shower is what is making the pictures brighter in 5:24:52 and 5:24:56 *I think.* From the first timestamped picture to when Travis looks startled is just about 5 minutes. The pictures are really lacking in quality; something that doesn't make sense for somebody who was supposedly doing a photo shoot, so I'm not convinced she wasn't taking these photos through the door. It's just not the water droplets, but the glare and haziness from what appears to be from taking photos through a clear door. I don't believe a word that comes out of JA's mouth, so I can't consider that at all.

5:28:54 is the picture I think you're talking about. I did notice that it looks like he is curled up on the floor. That is one of the pictures I was referring to when I said something other than just taking pictures was happening after he looks startled.

So do you think those pictures were taken while he was under duress or do you think he was a willing participant in the photos?

It's hard for me to talk about these photos, because it upsets me so much, but what she was thinking during that shoot would be my second question to JA, right behind how long she'd been thinking about murdering him.

Were they her trophy pics and/or was she contemplating the best places to stab him?

A poster here put together two different sets of photos showing a head in one photo could be put right over the body in another and make a perfect, complete photo. One of those was with the last head shot and last sitting pose, but an earlier one was also done. Good job to the person who did it.

Take a look at the pic at 1:27 and see if that looks like a frontal shot to you. It's very dark and hard to see, but it looks to me more like a frontal shot than a back shot. What do you think?

P.S. Yes, I believe he was under duress the whole time. JMO

Some of the quality issues come from the fact that these were recovered photos and had been deleted. The especially dark and blurry ones were recovered as thumbnails only. The state expert who recovered them testified to this early in the trial.

Detective Melendez said those that were recovered as thumbnails appear blurry when enlarged, but I don't recall him saying that made them dark. Another expert listed which ones they believed with with flash and without flash, so I think flash had an effect. You can see the reflection of the flash on his right arm in the first photo, no? I'll listen to Detective Melendez' testimony again.

 

[Juli]

Some of the quality issues come from the fact that these were recovered photos and had been deleted. The especially dark and blurry ones were recovered as thumbnails only. The state expert who recovered them testified to this early in the trial.

So are you saying that something like 5:29:12 was a thumbnail and 5:29:20 was not and an expert verified this was the reason for the difference in lighting and overall quality?

Thanks to all who are sharing their ideas as I try to figure this out.

 

[Juli]

I haven't read her CV. I know California prisoners get better health care than regular citizens, but I don't know that she worked in the prison system. She said she worked in a funded program that offered male prisoners a chance to get reduced sentences if they agreed to counseling. Wonder how well that worked? I can see Jodi getting counseling and it doing nothing for her.

btw I see her office is on Pacific Coast Highway, one of the "1000 Places to Visit Before You Die," and one of just 11 in California. She's in a small commercial building right near the Long Beach Marina, an area I know well.



It's hard for me to talk about these photos, because it upsets me so much, but what she was thinking during that shoot would be my second question to JA, right behind how long she'd been thinking about murdering him.

Were they her trophy pics and/or was she contemplating the best places to stab him?

A poster here put together two different sets of photos showing a head in one photo could be put right over the body in another and make a perfect, complete photo. One of those was with the last head shot and last sitting pose, but an earlier one was also done. Good job to the person who did it.

Take a look at the pic at 1:27 and see if that looks like a frontal shot to you. It's very dark and hard to see, but it looks to me more like a frontal shot than a back shot. What do you think?

P.S. Yes, I believe he was under duress the whole time. JMO



Detective Melendez said those that were recovered as thumbnails appear blurry when enlarged, but I don't recall him saying that made them dark. Another expert listed which ones they believed with with flash and without flash, so I think flash had an effect. You can see the reflection of the flash on his right arm in the first photo, no? I'll listen to Detective Melendez' testimony again.

Thank you, Allyne and I'm sorry; I certainly don't mean to upset you. :grouphug:

I'm going to regroup and give it more thought because I am having a difficult time rationalizing her scenario of the door being open with what I see. Lord knows, I am not a professional photographer so I'll go back and read the thread you recommended and listen to the expert testimony regarding this.

One thing that doesn't ring true even if an expert testified that the door was open and the quality is due to enlarging thumbnail pics is this...

Why are the angles of the photos so poorly shot if JA was doing this for a photo shoot as she claims? His head is cut out of the pictures in several shots.

As to your question of trophy pics, I think it's just another example of her creepy, stalking behavior. Why else would she take them if she knew she was going to delete them? I'm sure that is why JA weaved her story the way she did (photo shoot).

One thing for sure is that she is not too bright. Taking the camera would have been smart, not borrowing gas cans would have been smart, and burning her receipts would have been smart. Fortunately, the majority of criminals aren't very bright and leave a trail of evidence.

 

[Allyne Smithe]

Thank you, Allyne and I'm sorry; I certainly don't mean to upset you. :grouphug:

I'm going to regroup and give it more thought because I am having a difficult time rationalizing her scenario of the door being open with what I see. Lord knows, I am not a professional photographer so I'll go back and read the thread you recommended and listen to the expert testimony regarding this.

One thing that doesn't ring true even if an expert testified that the door was open and the quality is due to enlarging thumbnail pics is this...

Why are the angles of the photos so poorly shot if JA was doing this for a photo shoot as she claims? His head is cut out of the pictures in several shots.

As to your question of trophy pics, I think it's just another example of her creepy, stalking behavior. Why else would she take them if she knew she was going to delete them? I'm sure that is why JA weaved her story the way she did (photo shoot).

One thing for sure is that she is not too bright. Taking the camera would have been smart, not borrowing gas cans would have been smart, and burning her receipts would have been smart. Fortunately, the majority of criminals aren't very bright and leave a trail of evidence.

You are so kind, thanks. :grouphug: If the shower door were closed, the flash would have bounced against the glass in the first and second shots unless she used a polarizing filter (which darkens photos btw), but I see no evidence she used a polarizing filter. The door is clearly open in the last seated pose and in the ceiling shot after she went down with the camera after Travis pushed back.

I'm listening to Detective Melendez' testimony now. He discusses the shower pics around the 30 minute mark. I haven't heard him say anything about a thumbnail being darker, but then I haven't finished listening. Sunset on June 4, 2008 in Phoenix would have been at 7:35 pm, so the sun setting wouldn't have been a factor in the photos getting darker.

So true about taking the camera and not borrowing gas cans would have been smart. As she said, it was her first murder so she was inexperienced. :what:

Jodi Arias Trial : Day 6 : Shocking Photos (No Sidebars) - YouTube

More on shooting through glass (since you can see the flash reflected in the back of the shower and on TA's arm in the very first shower pic), which is pretty compelling proof to me the shower door was open the whole time:

"Let's take flash pictures first, since those tend to be the ones that most amateurs tend to take and take badly.

"The obvious problem is the high reflectivity of the glass through which one is shooting. Shoot flash directly at a pane of glass and the pane of glass will send your flash right back atcha, ruining your picture by degrading the image with flare."

More at http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-srv/photo/essays/vanRiper/021010.htm

 

[josie1986]

:seeya:

I really hope wilmott gets a move on today, , surely she must be aware of the jury and that they are gonna be pizzed that they've been stuck there for 36ish days. I know I'm more than fed up listening to their "objection" "may we approach" "mr Martinez is a big meanie" blah blah blah

Sent from my GT-I9300 using Tapatalk 2

 

[Simply Caustic]

Just throwing it out there...

Maybe Jodi and Travis were both sociopaths.

And oddly, the phrase I remember about ALV's testimony is balance of power?

Most respectfully, I think any theory that includes Travis as a sociopath would be lacking in any logical foundation whatsoever...disregarding, of course, my personal belief that it is distasteful to reference a murder victim as a sociopath...I'm still left with, "what would be the supportive evidence for this theory?"

MOO but it is illogical and without basis, lacking foundation or any point of reference.

Eta: if there is evidence I am not taking into account regarding evidence of a potentially sociopathic personality in Travis, I would most definitely be open to seeing it. I just don't think there is.


Sent from my ADR6350 using Tapatalk 2

 

[salberg7]

IMO Travis wasn't posing in the shower pic where he was sitting down. I believe this picture was taken after he saw JA with a weapon in her hand (the surprised full face shot), he was trying to make some sort of escape, slipped & fell in the shower, & this pic is right before the first stab to his heart. Remember, he was hosting a conference call @ 6:45pm or so & his plan was to get ready for that. I think TA thought JA was gone, & she sneaked back in. I don't think TA knew he was getting photographed. I don't think he was even "posing". My husband does the same thing when he is showering- stays in the shower just because he likes to get his thoughts together for the day (and uses all the hot water, lol).

 

[Really?]

Thank you for your input as to a different scenario. I need to think about it more. JA's change of position and light above the shower is what is making the pictures brighter in 5:24:52 and 5:24:56 *I think.* From the first timestamped picture to when Travis looks startled is just about 5 minutes. The pictures are really lacking in quality; something that doesn't make sense for somebody who was supposedly doing a photo shoot, so I'm not convinced she wasn't taking these photos through the door. It's just not the water droplets, but the glare and haziness from what appears to be from taking photos through a clear door. I don't believe a word that comes out of JA's mouth, so I can't consider that at all.

5:28:54 is the picture I think you're talking about. I did notice that it looks like he is curled up on the floor. That is one of the pictures I was referring to when I said something other than just taking pictures was happening after he looks startled.

So do you think those pictures were taken while he was under duress or do you think he was a willing participant in the photos?

I can't see how there would be any way to answer this......on the liar knows.

 

[Really?]

Thank you, Allyne and I'm sorry; I certainly don't mean to upset you. :grouphug:

I'm going to regroup and give it more thought because I am having a difficult time rationalizing her scenario of the door being open with what I see. Lord knows, I am not a professional photographer so I'll go back and read the thread you recommended and listen to the expert testimony regarding this.

One thing that doesn't ring true even if an expert testified that the door was open and the quality is due to enlarging thumbnail pics is this...

Why are the angles of the photos so poorly shot if JA was doing this for a photo shoot as she claims? His head is cut out of the pictures in several shots.

As to your question of trophy pics, I think it's just another example of her creepy, stalking behavior. Why else would she take them if she knew she was going to delete them? I'm sure that is why JA weaved her story the way she did (photo shoot).

One thing for sure is that she is not too bright. Taking the camera would have been smart, not borrowing gas cans would have been smart, and burning her receipts would have been smart. Fortunately, the majority of criminals aren't very bright and leave a trail of evidence.

bbm

Thank goodness for that!

Also, the shower pics are at crappy angles for a "photo shoot"....JA is a LIAR

 

[Tulessa]

I think we needed a dedicated pet thread

Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community

 

[snowcat]

What?



Fixed that for you! :thumb:



:waiting:



:waiting:

I reiterate:

:hug:

This will help you understand the emu thing; Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community

eace: for the record, Steely, I'm against the oil and moisturizer and anything that harms animals. It's in supermarkets as a high end moisturizer and I almost bought it recently by mistake. It was recommended for burns and I thought it was just a brand because emus were a popular symbol associated with Australia. I wondered why it was so pricey for a small bottle (in supermarkets, not department store) so did a little research first and was shocked :shocked2: and horrified :furious: We got your back if you travel anywhere that makes it :soldier:

 

[Allyne Smithe]

IMO Travis wasn't posing in the shower pic where he was sitting down. I believe this picture was taken after he saw JA with a weapon in her hand (the surprised full face shot), he was trying to make some sort of escape, slipped & fell in the shower, & this pic is right before the first stab to his heart. Remember, he was hosting a conference call @ 6:45pm or so & his plan was to get ready for that. I think TA thought JA was gone, & she sneaked back in. I don't think TA knew he was getting photographed. I don't think he was even "posing". My husband does the same thing when he is showering- stays in the shower just because he likes to get his thoughts together for the day (and uses all the hot water, lol).

Apologies for repeating this but he had to have known she was there since you can clearly see the flash reflection in the first two shower photos, on the tiles of the back shower wall and reflected in the water droplets on his arm. AND if she'd tried to shoot through glass it would have made a big 'ol reflection and ruined the photo. Thus, the shower door was open and he knew she was taking photos the whole time, for eight minutes before she murdered him.

Here's an article on the problems caused by trying to shoot photos through glass: http://gizmodo.com/5376271/giz-explains-when-not-to-use-your-cameras-flash

And an example of flash bouncing off glass and ruining the shot:

 

[deedee21]

:seeya:

I really hope wilmott gets a move on today, , surely she must be aware of the jury and that they are gonna be pizzed that they've been stuck there for 36ish days. I know I'm more than fed up listening to their "objection" "may we approach" "mr Martinez is a big meanie" blah blah blah

Sent from my GT-I9300 using Tapatalk 2

Expect a record breaking number of objections when JM gets up. Witnesses and jurors dont know that Jodi early on wanted to plead guilty to second degree murder. She was turned down. As a result of that, she had to come up with something . What a leap. Wanting to plead guilty, to self defense and then as a matter of course, bring in the expert witnesses. This is a mockery. One thing is for sure, any viewer, who also was a victim that was helped by this latest witness, will be disguisted by her presence in this courtroom. Her credibility is really at stake now. Its not worth it. She should have become familar with this case before she agreed to do this.

 

[audreyparker]

Most respectfully, I think any theory that includes Travis as a sociopath would be lacking in any logical foundation whatsoever...disregarding, of course, my personal belief that it is distasteful to reference a murder victim as a sociopath...I'm still left with, "what would be the supportive evidence for this theory?"

MOO but it is illogical and without basis, lacking foundation or any point of reference.

Eta: if there is evidence I am not taking into account regarding evidence of a potentially sociopathic personality in Travis, I would most definitely be open to seeing it. I just don't think there is.


Sent from my ADR6350 using Tapatalk 2

ITA. I think the reason JA was so obsessed with being with TA and would not let him go was precisely because he was not a sociopath (like her)! He was a good guy that she thought would be easily manipulated and that she could control. She took total advantage of his unwillingness to be mean and cut her out of his life. He obviously recognized something in her that was not right, but she couldn't figure out what that is, because she lacks real feelings (except for herself).

After seeing that picture of TA with his dad in spiderman underwear, she definitely got all of her story from somewhere else and twisted everything to fit her needs. The little boy in the spiderman underwear, was TA himself! There was no pedo pics (I never thought there were any to begin with)! Her story of the murder has grains of truth in it, but she's twisted all of it to fit her purposes.

 

[deedee21]

I was going to say that JM should have someone come in and explain why Travis was the victim and expose Jodi for the stalking crazy ***** she is, but Im sure JM through Q@A will turn this person into a witness for the state.