Trial Discussion Thread #37 - 14.05.12 Day 30

[JudgeJudi]

I'm hoping the psychologist is coming on after Wollie.

Someone asked about OP’s aunt. She has a doctorate in psychology, but also …

“Pistorius’ aunt, Micki Pistorius, is a criminal profiler who claims to have extrasensory powers that help her to detect killers. “

http://www.nydailynews.com/news/wor...cousin-poisoned-kids-killed-article-1.1273799

“The author of Profiling Serial Killers and other crimes in South Africa and a string of other works on the motives and psychology of murderers, she has opposed long custodial sentences in some serious crime cases.

A noted eccentric during her time as a lecturer at the University of Pretoria, she would encircle herself on the library floor with Freud and Jung books because "circles have magic powers" that helped her to absorb knowledge”.

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/w...r-pistorius-case-she-is-his-aunt-8508750.html

In her memoir Catch Me A Killer Dr Pistorius claims to have extra-sensory perception, being able to pick up vibes without using the five normal senses. She calls this gift "cryptesthesia" a term she prefers to "psychic, which to me conjures up the image of a gypsy with a crystal ball or a cup of tea leaves."

Thought you'd like it.

 

[kaos]

Is it deliberate on the part of the defence to not have written reports? i.e If anything is written down it can then be used as evidence so therefore may suit the defence to not have much in the written form that can then be used against their client?

 

[zwiebel]

Here is a link to our Dewani thread, if anyone wants it;

http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?t=121605&highlight=dewani

 

[bloodmeridian]

I don't think that is quite right .. the first bit is correct, but I don't think Nel is trying to get W to agree that the abrasion was caused by the magazine rack, I think he is trying to get him to agree the opposite, i.e. that it was not the cause of her back wound and that it was a bullet fragment which caused it. Nel doesn't want the magazine rack to have caused the back injury because that would place Reeva sitting on the floor and not on the magazine rack .. and I can't personally see how the magazine rack would've cause the back injury. W doesn't think it caused the back injury either, he has conceded to that because it's too smooth.

Thanks for this. I'm pretty confused as to who believes what regarding the abrasion?!?! I know that Reeva's position at the time she was shot is important to both sides because it (somehow???) provides evidence of whether she was 'speaking' to OP or not. But, IMHO, it will not be that important (in the grand scheme of things) to this judge when she makes her decision. jmo :bateyes:

 

[BritsKate]

I think so too. But what I can't grasp is that he would not have notes, not have all he did in front of him, instead of saying he can't remember. I honestly question what his expertise is, or how what he did is supposed to help the defense. It is painful seeing him struggle, but why is he on the stand?

RBBM

My opinion: Wollie has an awesome CV. He may not be at his best form right now but if it's a choice between an expert with a good pedigree versus no expert at all, I think some would choose A hoping for the appearance of credibility. Hoping, at the absolute least, to raise reasonable doubt.

Personally, I think every single time he answers 'I don't know. I can't remember.' it's another mark on the scorecard for the State.

 

[ColonelMustard]

I think so too. But what I can't grasp is that he would not have notes, not have all he did in front of him, instead of saying he can't remember. I honestly question what his expertise is, or how what he did is supposed to help the defense. It is painful seeing him struggle, but why is he on the stand?

Dixon advised against it.

"Wollie, if you don't have any Nel can't take them away from you."

 

[zwiebel]

I'm hoping the psychologist is coming on after Wollie.

Someone asked about OP’s aunt. She has a doctorate in psychology, but also …

“Pistorius’ aunt, Micki Pistorius, is a criminal profiler who claims to have extrasensory powers that help her to detect killers. “

http://www.nydailynews.com/news/wor...cousin-poisoned-kids-killed-article-1.1273799

“The author of Profiling Serial Killers and other crimes in South Africa and a string of other works on the motives and psychology of murderers, she has opposed long custodial sentences in some serious crime cases.

A noted eccentric during her time as a lecturer at the University of Pretoria, she would encircle herself on the library floor with Freud and Jung books because "circles have magic powers" that helped her to absorb knowledge”.

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/w...r-pistorius-case-she-is-his-aunt-8508750.html

In her memoir Catch Me A Killer Dr Pistorius claims to have extra-sensory perception, being able to pick up vibes without using the five normal senses. She calls this gift "cryptesthesia" a term she prefers to "psychic, which to me conjures up the image of a gypsy with a crystal ball or a cup of tea leaves."

Thought you'd like it.

Good heavens!

They're back...

 

[Interested Bystander]

Good morning all....have been lurking for weeks and have really enjoyed reading all the threads here and keeping up to date with the trial. I am going to jump straight in and say I sat up straight when W just mentioned Frank.Up until now I was beginning to think he was just an imaginary friend!

:wagon:

New input always very welcome.

 

[Gbtaketwo]

So far today the thing that stands out for me is Nel reiterating that it is the states case that OP was definitely on stumps whilst shooting . This surprises me because Nel also had it put on the record previously that he was crouching also so I have no idea where the crouching comes into it now.

 

[ColonelMustard]

Zweibel, I remain in awe of your keyboarding skills. You can type a mean streak!

Trooper, ditto for you!

 

[zwiebel]

Roux up.

R: During adjournment I asked someone to sit on mag rack so you could explain....what is your view?

W: For a bullet to make a u-turn and come back, it would loose all it's energy...

N: A bullet travelling downwards from F, where would it end up?

W: If it's the same bullet, bouncing back....it's impossible....in that case it must have been a fragment...

 

[G.bng]

I too find it difficult to find probable that a fragment that just abraded Reeva's back, going up or down, could then bounce over her and into the toilet as is the State's case.

 

[zwiebel]

W repeats that a bullet, with all energy lost, could not have then bounced twice and had enough energy to still cause an abrasion on Reeva's back.

 

[BritsKate]

Is it deliberate on the part of the defence to not have written reports? i.e If anything is written down it can then be used as evidence so therefore may suit the defence to not have much in the written form that can then be used against their client?

Sometimes, yes. Not notes so much as an official report. Sometimes notes, IIRC, aren't admissible as they're considered work product. (Courts are divided on this.) Some defence attorneys specifically request an expert not write a report or at least wait until very close to trial.

That's more common though when there's official reciprocal discovery in place, which requires the defence to turn over evidence to the State. In SA, from what I know, no such reciprocal discovery exists. However, it's an informal process mostly done out of courtesy. Roux could choose to withhold whatever he wants though and bear no price for doing so ethically.

JMO

 

[Fairynuff]

woll. himiny himiny.. ( sort of a mumble.. ) ..


Woll.. umm err. humminy himminy, yes. yes.

:floorlaugh: :floorlaugh: :floorlaugh: :floorlaugh:

 

[ColonelMustard]

Good morning all....have been lurking for weeks and have really enjoyed reading all the threads here and keeping up to date with the trial. I am going to jump straight in and say I sat up straight when W just mentioned Frank.Up until now I was beginning to think he was just an imaginary friend!

Welcome. Made me sit up too.

 

[Suthrnqt]

Good morning all....have been lurking for weeks and have really enjoyed reading all the threads here and keeping up to date with the trial. I am going to jump straight in and say I sat up straight when W just mentioned Frank.Up until now I was beginning to think he was just an imaginary friend!

Welcome to WS!!
:balloons:
:wagon:

 

[zwiebel]

R: Sight alignment? What do you mean by that?

W: My eye. The frontside and the backside. The front has got a little ??? if you know what I mean. My eye, my eye and the frontside all have to be lined up, without flingeing....


??????????

 

[Trooper]

Roux.. is there any evidence re A B and E ( ?) lining up??

no

Roux.. is she is sitting on the magazine rack. what energy is left in the bullet, there?

Woll. for the bullet to make a U turn.. for it to travel, so. it must actually stand still and return..

Roux. the evidence. the bullet is being fired downwards. forget about it being fired upwards.. the abrasion.. can it be caused by the same bullet??

Woll. well. by one of the fragments. but its not compatible..

Roux. the striations are upwards. how is this caused??

Woll. the bullet is travelling downwards, loses its energy, it bounces 2 times in her back , its not possible. ( these terrible injuries, ).

Nel is rushing him a bit, the more he rushes, the slower Woll goes. his voice is weary, weary. weary. even moving the probe , he is weary.. his words are slurred, slow..

Roux. you spoke about sight alignment?

Woll. when I am at the shooting range, and I want to hit the target, there are certain principles to follow. my eye.. my front sight.. the little spin in the front. my eye, frontside, sideside, must all be lined up, when I squeeze the trigger.. without freezing, I will be able to hit the target..

Roux, in relation to A C D can you see alighnment>?

Woll. no. I cant.


Roux. the sound test.. could you specifically reconstruct the scene..

Woll. I can arrange the same shooting range, and set it up for the court. you can experience it yourself.

Roux ends his re leading of Woll. praise God< woll can sit down now.

 

[K.T]

N: And, any other incidents that you went back to the scene - to do with the bathroom and the toilet?

Wol: Except for the stage when Dixon went back, I can&#8217;t remember that day.

Nel: Now I&#8217;m not asking you about that, that was at night, that Dixon testified.

Wol: I&#8217;ve been back there a couple of times, but I can&#8217;t remember the dates but I have been back.

Nel: And been back there at night that was one time you went there with Dixon and Westhaven. It you go back there at night any other times?

Woll: Yes I went Back there, I can&#8217;t also remember the date now, but I went back there it was about three or four weeks ago.

Nel: While the matter (trial?) was running?

Woll: While the matter was running.

Nel: Why did you go back there, three weeks ago?

Wol: They just asked me, if I can remember me properly, it was because Mr Dixon who was testifying on visibility. If I can remember correctl Milday it was a bit on the balcony light. And they just asked me to go for the balcony light. Hmmm

Nel: So you were asked to go back there, three times?

Wol: I can&#8217;t remember when.

Nel: Were you there alone?

Wol: Only me and Frank, who opened the door for me.

Hello Frank, the trusty silent, sleeping through screams and shots Pistorius houseman/caretaker...still working for the accused and taking care of the house. I think the dogs were being calmed by Frank now on that shooting night. That's why they were silent, just like good ol' Frank is now silent and still helpfully opening doors for the defense.

Nel: And is that the only thing you did there on this particular day?

Woll: Yah, I think it didn&#8217;t take me more than 15-20 minutes.



Wolmarens has just said he "can't remember" 5 times in about 3 minutes.

This seems like a strategy. He obviously has problems with memory recall but he's also using for the defense because it's uncomfortable for the defense to have the experts have had to go back to teh crime scene constantly and add more details to their report...while the trial has started.

I believe this is because of Pistorius 'versions' and evidence tailoring.